Riot: Let Tahm Kench support - Not his allies

Cleril··9 votes·948 views

After trying to support yet another solo Q game (not ranked) with Tahm I'm convinced he's impossible to play with random users. No matter how many times I explain my abilities (and why do I need to do that anyway) my allies refuse to help me help them. Everyone cancels Devour preemptively. No tank let's me get them to the middle of the team. Low health allies never run toward me. And worst of all is that I will die more than half the time because someone decided to cancel Devour.

Yes, I will die because I tried helping another player because Riot decided to give them control over when they get to leave. I've had allies leave my belly and get themselves killed immediately. As someone who plays a lot of Bard with much success in solo Q I find TahmKench completely the opposite because allies can screw everyone over.

This is the same reason why everyone hates Kalista. Hell, I supported one as Bard and she decided to ult to initiate completely ruining my own mechanics for initiation.

Now I know, some players suck with Bard and TahmKench having no clue when to devour and such. However, and I think support mains will agree, ADC (and everyone else really) are stupid. They can't orb walk, position, engage, disengage, soft-engage/disengage, etc. When I win the majority of solo Q games with Bard I am the one who decides when to engage and when to leave. My team has no control over when I decide these moments and they clearly see these moments and 90% of the time react appropriately. I get to support.

TahmKench Meanwhile doesn't get to decide when to support. He relegates at least half of the responsibility to his teammates which as we established have no business having a say in my role or my actions. They are not qualified for the job.

"But the trolls! The trolls are coming!"

I can troll just as much with Bard but I don't and I haven't seen any other Bards do so ever (despite maybe seeing just two tops besides me). I've seen bad Bards yes but Bard is mechanically complex compared to TahmKench. I'd rather the possibility for TahmKench to troll than letting anyone but me support.

Changes I want to see in TahmKench kit:

W - Do not let allies decide when they get to leave. They didn't pick support so they don't get to decide how to support themselves. By taking away control from the support you relegate supports to the whim of those not qualified to support. Players will leave at the worst times both aggressively and defensively leaving themselves and me to die. A support is there to prevent allies from dying last I checked. Why are you taking that power away from me besides the excuse of "trolling" which again Bard can do too but allies have no say over anything he does and he's far less frustrating to play because of it.

Allies can't decide where TahmKench ults so why can they decide when they get to leave mah belly?

Kalista is like an ADC trying to support using R and that's the reason reason I refuse to support that champion and why so many hate her (besides the hops). Hell, players can't decide to accept or decline the pact with an ADC but players can decide to screw over TahmKench?

Riot, let supports support, and let the rest of the team do their own job. Don't let them have a say in how a support supports.

There's a reason I have much more success with Bard in solo Q vs TahmKench and this is why.

8 Comments

Dr Poro5 votes

It's because your teammates don't always have the same idea you have. Your ult is not used during combat. You have time to discuss and plan where you go, etc. Your teammate has to willingly join you on the ride. His devour, however, is an ability often used during a fight. There's been no time to discuss the plan and your ally did not willingly enter your belly. They might have had different plans and did don't like to sit in your safe tummy.

The person that is swallowed usually has a better idea of what he wants to do next. If his plan is to fight, but you run away with him, he's screwed. If his plan is to flee but you put him right in front of the enemy, he's also screwed.

Bard is a troll champ, but it's far less easy to trigger than Tahm's level of trolliness. With your suggestion, you'd just pick up your ADC, run into their team and vomit her out right in the middle of 5 men. Currently, the ADC can atleast get out through the backside and much faster than 6 seconds.

I've played with a wonderful Tahm Kench today and he did some amazing plays with me and others, but that was a platinum I match and I've seen other Tahm's performing really poorly where they eat an assassin before they could finish their combo for example. I wouldn't play too much Tahm in lower ELOs. Thresh also performs A LOT worse in soloQ than his potential (LCS/Worlds) because people suck at taking the lantern. Well, atleast Thresh isn't screwed by it, unless he engaged and threw a lantern hoping that the tank would follow up.

Cleril2 votes

The ally didn't decide to be embraced in the light of my Bard ult but afterwards they'll suck me off behind fountain because they like living.

With Tahm I'll give them the darkness of my belly, then they'll leave 5 seconds too early and die.

"If his plan is to fight."

Tank and support decides when to fight. The APC and ADC do not. As for fleeing what part of they will cancel devour because they're panicking or just plain stupid are you not grasping? TahmKench Can't support his allies either way is my point.

"Bard is a troll champ." You're going to tell me he sucks next and that will be just as valid as that statement.

"You'll pick up your ADC and fling them into a five man"

This is exactly why other players should not decide when I can support. TahmKench like Bard requires teamwork and trust. If I'm playing a team game where these things are not present then why am I playing the game? There's a reason surrender votes exist.

Thresh is actually another perfect example of my problem with TahmKench A support should not rely on an ally to support themselves. That takes away from the support's job.

It's bad enough as Bard when allies take shrines immediately or at full health or never. At least worst case scenario I can put a shrine on top of them (not efficient but it's better than letting them be retarded). Tahm has no such recourse.

Diananmen Square1 votes

But I see players constantly who are playing Ashe or Varus (completely immobile) , I pick them up for extra movespeed and they instantly leave my belly.

Lord Dusteon2 votes

No. That removes any safeguard against trolling on Tahm; yes, Riot shouldn't needlessly restrict cool mechanics because trolls can use them, but they also shouldn't make a mechanic that is extremely beneficial to trolls and not much else. What does one do when a Tahm decides for whatever reason the adc and him should engage and picks up the 400 hp adc and runs at the enemy? Or when one starts half their mage combo and then Tahm decides they need to get out of there, keeping them from securing a kill because the support decided so?

Any effect that an ally can force on another that can have a negative effect should, if at all possible, have ways to mitigate the effect. That is shown in kalista's ult; yes, it grabs one and can really fuck up, but the person ulted still decides where they come out at and isn't forced to follow Kalista. Tahm is similar; yes, his W grab can really fuck up, but the person eaten can choose when to come out and what direction and exit earlier. It's a safeguard against trolls that does not affect players who are cooperating. Sure, not every team is going to cooperate, but that doesn't mean the support suddenly gets to decide what any of their allies do for the next 6 seconds.

YCitizenSnipsY2 votes

Most solo q players have learned not to trust Tahm Kench, he has a nasty reputation for spitting teammates into the enemies. Blame whoever designed his consume and thought this community would use it responsibly. Your gonna keep running into these problems until he isn't viewed as a certified troll pick.

And you devour change is pretty terrible, let someone else forcibly control your champion and send them where they want. Its a trolls dream tool with how it works now you're only making it worse with that change.

3TWarrior1 votes

lol, anivia support can be just as bad...her wall doesn't even do anything anymore when every champ has either flash or a dash/blink

kalista for isntance doesn't even need one so long as ANYTHING is in auto attack range

jarvan could probably support better than anivia now XD

aaronautumn1 votes

maybe u just need more practice

Matezoide1 votes

Strangely, the players on the PBE are far more welcoming to my help than in the regular servers.

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