@Riot - Another Ryze Rework but Zero Work on Karma, Lissandra, Skarner and Morde.

Vanjie·Apr 17, 2018·97 votes·18,122 views

Congrats. You keep trying to convince the community that you care about all of your champions and want to work on all your champions. You spend 3 patch cycles on Ahri and now you are prioritized "work" on Ryze . . . it's another Ryze rework. You are already walking on thin ice with him and work being done for him . . . yet here you are doing massive changes to him again. You also created a special little thread for Ryze that you haven't done with Karma, Morde, Skarner, or Lissandra yet. When it is going to be a problem champion's turn to receive work and communication about them? It's disgusting and arrogant of you guys at this point.

78 Comments

Cowgirl EdApr 17, 201842 votes

Wow, they don't give a shit! This surely is shocking news

BLIGHTBRINGERApr 17, 201813 votes

[{quoted}](name=Duchess Charlie,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m3rjfjmX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-17T22:19:14.051+0000)

Wow, they don't give a shit! This surely is shocking news

Casually scrolling through the comments like[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

AMYS GRAVEApr 18, 20183 votes

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/mshckd.gif

IxtaliKingApr 17, 201831 votes

Morde - Needs a VGU.

Skarner - Needs a VGU.

Lissandra - Desperately needs a new passive.

Karma - Needs quite a bit of work imo. She needs a new innate and her current passive moved to R, an ally function for W/RW, shield bomb, a running animation and a shield animation. Making RQ ground targeted would improve her a lot both in mid and bot for a number of reasons that I'm tired of listing, but I doubt Riot will do it. I'm doubtful Riot will do much at all to fix Karma when they get to her tbh.

Killer of Night9Apr 18, 20186 votes

I hope meddler didn't cancel lissandra passive update... This patch show me something that leave me totally down....

Lissandra Q mana cost decreased. R cooldown decreased at earlier ranks. Lissandra has very sharp strengths as an initiator and mid-range damage dealer, and has historically need to be gated by mana and cooldowns to keep her in line. Right now she's struggling, so we're giving her more opportunities to do those things.

Q - Ice Shard COST 85 mana ⇒ 75 mana

R - Frozen Tomb COOLDOWN 130/105/80 seconds ⇒ 120/100/80 seconds

That's the english version but if you saw the IT version about that sound like a joke...

"Lissandra ora è potente, ma solo nelle giuste situazioni. Al momento sta facendo fatica, quindi le diamo più occasioni per brillare." Translation: "Lissandra right now is strong, but only in the right situation. Right now she's struggling, so we're giving her more opportunities to do those things." Lissandra is only uses as counterpick and it's NOT STRONG. She's one of the weaker burst mage and she cannot feel her battle role because she lack of resistance for survive in battle... Even in her best scenario she can get counter too easy (QSS or MAW or MERC) and she get outscaled by every other mage/assassin/fighter and even tank.

Actually this buff didn't leave us nothing than a better early game but for what? Her Q got 10 less mana which mean less need of her actual passive + 10 less cd of her ult on lv 6 and 5 on lv 11. The mana change that are open on the pbe could make the actual passive worth to have because mage are more mana limitated than ever but like 90% of pp that saw that know that a mage should be get their clear with spell and not via auto so that change should be cancelled. 5-6 patch ago meddler show us a good lissandra change that disappeared after 1 patch without hit the pbe. I wish that the new mana change + this buff will not be the only thing that she would get.

SélényxApr 18, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Killer of Night9,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m3rjfjmX,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-04-18T01:28:18.866+0000) Lissandra has very sharp strengths as an initiator and mid-range damage dealer, and has historically need to be gated by mana and cooldowns to keep her in line. Right now she's struggling, so we're giving her more opportunities to do those things.

That's the english version but if you saw the IT version about that sound like a joke...

"Lissandra ora è potente, ma solo nelle giuste situazioni. Al momento sta facendo fatica, quindi le diamo più occasioni per brillare." Translation: "Lissandra right now is strong, but only in the right situation. Right now she's struggling, so we're giving her more opportunities to do those things."

To be fair, what the Italians translated is right, given what they received. Riot (at least EUW) seems to have troubles with the timing of localization (translation) lately, and translators don't always receive the up-to-date update lol... So the French version is pretty much the same as yours (which, I agree with you, is BS).

"Lissandra est très puissante… dans certains cas. Mais pour le moment, elle semble généralement en difficulté, nous lui donnons donc un coup de pouce." "Lissandra is very powerful... in some instances. But for the time being, she seems to globally be in a difficult spot, so we're helping her a bit."

The English updated version is smoother, but honestly it's the same thing. Wish they'd give some love to our Ice witch.

CalifornianApr 18, 20181 votes

nice

abdollah56273Apr 18, 20189 votes

{quoted}

Morde - Needs a VGU.

Skarner - Needs a VGU.

Lissandra - Desperately needs a new passive.

Karma - Needs quite a bit of work imo. She needs a new innate and her current passive moved to R, an ally function for W/RW, shield bomb, a running animation and a shield animation. Making RQ ground targeted would improve her a lot both in mid and bot for a number of reasons that I'm tired of listing, but I doubt Riot will do it. I'm doubtful Riot will do much at all to fix Karma when they get to her tbh.

Many champions who are up for VGUs have gotten some QoL changes before their VGU.

Swain Aatrox Volibear Udyr

There's no reason why Skarner and Morde can't get any QoL changes to hold them over before their eventual VGUs

IxtaliKingApr 18, 20182 votes

Sure, I don't disagree.

VanjieApr 18, 20181 votes

I mean Aatrox is getting a full blown VGU now. I hope they can do something other than work on Ahri and Ryze every single year. It doesn't seem like it will ever happen though.

abdollah56273Apr 18, 20184 votes

Not to mention how they reverted Rengar and Leblancs reworks.

Meanwhile, Skarner Karma failed reworks are left in the sewers

VanjieApr 18, 20182 votes

Yep.

AbyssmalHydraApr 19, 20184 votes

Mordekaiser Is the sewer.

BeatzBoyFTWApr 20, 20181 votes

Their "failed reworks" are still played in current competitive scenes, so I doubt they'll have any sort of updates in the near future.

abdollah56273Apr 22, 20181 votes

Playrate and pro play doesn't necessarily indicate how good or fun their kits are.

Pros pick champs based on their chances of winning.

If tomorrow Amumu would be massively buffed, he would also see competitive play. In that regard, no champs are off-limit in the competitive scene, based on the meta

Fact of the matter is, Skarner current passive is incredibly unfun to play around. And I'm mastery 7 on him

DivewingApr 17, 201817 votes

Ryze is far more an issue in pro play, which fact is, is where Riot's priorities are.

I'm not saying it's right - in fact I hate it myself - but the vast majority of their large-scale changes appear to be pro-play focused.

The tl;dr really is that they are more willing to invest time into Ryze because he is relevant in pro play right now

The real question is when will solo-q get the special treatment pro-play balance does, but that's been asked already, with rather hopeless responses from Riot.

BattalionApr 18, 201812 votes

Riot is a business that has forgotten where the majority of it's revenue comes from and that isn't the LCS. It's from their players. Players pay streamers to stream the game aka free publicity for Riot games.

Those same players make up the viewership for the LCS which is who the sponsors are trying to reach. They're going to keep prioritizing the 0.01% over the 99.99% too much to the point that people are just going to stop caring about the game and even if they care about the LCS, they'll lose interest in that too.

Then sponsors will realizes that their advertisements on equipment, banners, and players are no longer profitable, and start to look for the hottest new E-sport.

It may take a few years, but Riot is killing its only cash-cow by focusing on the top of the pyramid instead of the foundation. Eventually when the foundation is neglected long enough it'll crumble, and every pretty thing you've done for and to the top of that pyramid wont matter.

The reason Riot wont release game population analytics is because they don't want sponors or players or player/sponsors to see that there has been a decline in popularity in League since about 2015-2016.

CalifornianApr 18, 20181 votes

well said

VanjieApr 18, 20182 votes

Like I care. I am not trying to be mean and start an argument but for the amount of work this champion has had done to him, he should be done with. If something is not working Ryze than gut it. They have done the same exact thing to so many champions but refuse to do it on the ones that it should be done on. Ryze has gotten to much work done on him that these Developer could be working on someone else that it would matter on. I don't care about Ryze anymore and I don't care about the work being done on him, because he gets work done on him all the time while everyone that has been asking for work done on their champion gets ignored.

It's just ridiculous.

FrostQueensPlaneApr 17, 201814 votes

SMALL INDIE COMPANY BRO. Billion dollar company can only afford street urchins like meddler and repetoir who don't work for 6 months of the year anyways.

Sp33d Zer0Apr 18, 20181 votes

Where is your source for this 6 month claim?

BattalionApr 18, 20183 votes

Ardent Censor

Sp33d Zer0Apr 18, 20182 votes

So there is no actual source them, just a pandering guess?

BattalionApr 18, 20181 votes

It's an exaggeration, the amount of work that this team puts out on champion balancing fixes are not comparable with other games of comparable depth, or even with their past balance fix updates throughout the years. It's come to almost a halt with updates that hardly impact the game and generally not in the way that they were portrayed to do.

MysticDreams12Apr 17, 201813 votes

This is so frustrating. Riot, get your head out of your ass and work on the things that actually NEED work, not your popular pet champions.

[darius-angry]

xÞekeApr 17, 201811 votes

it is so frustrating and this is getting tighter everyday..we're so marginalized as im starting to hate everything i used to love about this game... and i feel like leaving up on it if this restraint will persist... no news will ever be conveyed, if we'll have to wait for such a satisfying work to be done on her then its worth the patience, but im afraid tht all this time would just be for couple low key adjustments fml [sg-soraka]

CarnicoreApr 18, 201811 votes

Ryze is getting work because he's still a broken champion, but they have ideas of how they could fix him

Skarner and Karma aren't as great as they could be, but they're in good enough shape that Riot can backburner them for a long time.

They've tested some big Lissandra changes on the PBE but Riot shelved them because they weren't happy with the changes - and for all we know, the same could happen to these Ryze changes. But Lissandra has not at all been ignored.

Mordekaiser's in such bad shape, that he needs a total rework. But that won't happen until Riot has some breakthroughs in their labs and figures out what the new abilities should be, and maybe they haven't figured out the art direction either.

ShahamutApr 18, 20187 votes

Skarner "I miss my kind..."

I post Skarner stuff all the time. Usually in close bursts with breaks in between. I have yet to get a red response in ANY of my threads. And this is years in the making :-(

VanjieApr 18, 20183 votes

Yep. Very true.

abdollah56273Apr 18, 20183 votes

{quoted}

"I miss my kind..."

I post Skarner stuff all the time. Usually in close bursts with breaks in between. I have yet to get a red response in ANY of my threads. And this is years in the making :-(

I once got a red response with a thread I made. I also got a response from the playtest team once regarding Skarner.

Other than that though, Riot goes out of their way to pretend Skarner doesn't exist, despite him seeing so much play in the pro scene

Sun Wu RyuumokuApr 18, 20186 votes

Ryze reworked... again. Meanwhile MonkeyKing

ArakadiaApr 18, 20182 votes

To be fair, you want a VGU on wukong. Ryze has only ever received a single VGU.

He has gotten loads of gameplay work on him, but a Wukong VGU is very different from what Ryze is getting on PBE right now.

Rune OcarinaApr 18, 20186 votes

It really is starting to become sickening how much Riot likes to return to Ryze when there are a ton of other champs that would really appreciate the attention. Seriously, this is getting old real quick.

JanakinApr 18, 20185 votes

Especially rework of Sona. She needs it so badly.

Bogdan1945Apr 18, 20183 votes

Sona's problem is numbers galore , not exactly unhealthy and fundamental flaws within her kit

xelakerApr 18, 20183 votes

think that's what he means. She needs to have purpose instead of being a stat machine

VanjieApr 19, 20181 votes

Sona's problem is how irrelevant auras are now. It's not very interactive and it is kind of boring. I don't think she is terrible but I find her boring and bland.

JanakinApr 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Sona's problem is how irrelevant auras are now. It's not very interactive and it is kind of boring. I don't think she is terrible but I find her boring and bland.

Really, 3 out of 4 spells are not even point-and-click. Just get in range, tap the spell and it will find closest targets. What kind of gameplay is that.

5050BSApr 17, 20183 votes

Dont forget Zyra Plant HP issue

VanjieApr 17, 20184 votes

Yep. Something else they said they would work on. Oh look . . Ahri and Ryze.

koshkyraApr 18, 20183 votes

Ryze is seen in pro play 3x more than everyone else (especially lissandra lol) obviously riot cares about him infinitely more than karma liss skarner

Josh SandApr 18, 20182 votes

Why don't they just nerf him into the ground like they did other champions and work on other balance problems elsewhere? Having undergone this many reworks means that something is critically wrong with the champion's design and it should be shelved, so that the team can focus on champions that might only need one rework to be brought back into the fold.

I wouldn't mind this at all, as Ryze is probably the most boring champion in the game to watch.

VanjieApr 19, 20181 votes

That would be the ideal situation but nope. He has received almost 4 reworks and 2 VGU. It's never going to happen.

FyreWallApr 18, 20182 votes

The problem is if they fuck up the master of metal, I know I, and many other mordekaiser mains will just straight up quit league. Not like it will effect their numbers drastically, but they don't want to take an old beat up car and light it on fire.

RyzeTheSmurfMageApr 18, 20181 votes

As a Ryze main I can say just one thing. YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH BOIIIIIIIIII THE MEME IS BACK. Still imo Morde is pretty good, he is balanced, not like other tanks that are unkillable and 100-0 you with one abiltiy Urgot (cough cough his machine gun cough cough ). Lissandra is said to receive a mini-rework that's basically a buff, but yeah they should first fix the Morde bugs and balance the game so it is not just about "the better botlane wins" especially when botlane is the lane most people get autofilled on.

Lord Phazanor Apr 18, 20184 votes

{quoted}

As a Ryze main I can say just one thing. YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH BOIIIIIIIIII THE MEME IS BACK. Still imo Morde is pretty good, he is balanced, not like other tanks that are unkillable and 100-0 you with one abiltiy (cough cough his machine gun cough cough ). Lissandra is said to receive a mini-rework that's basically a buff, but yeah they should first fix the Morde bugs and balance the game so it is not just about "the better botlane wins" especially when botlane is the lane most people get autofilled on.

Says Morde is balanced, compares him to tanks.
Go home, you're drunk.

RyzeTheSmurfMageApr 20, 20181 votes

Maybe its just my personal experience with him then.

ZullarApr 18, 20181 votes

8.7 win percents (7 day average) https://imgur.com/a/3D1An#13qT9XO

Ryze was the 2nd worst champ in the game (Ranked #139/140 with 44% win rate) and they nerfed him on 8.8. Azir was the 3rd worst champ in the game (Ranked #138/140 with 44% win rate) and they nerfed him on 8.8. Meanwhile Warwick (#1 champ for a while with 54% win rate) is untouched.

It appears Riot's live balance team is primary focused on pro play... and just ignoring the regular player base. They shouldn't be spending all this time on Ryze nerfs/reworks in an attempt to get the pro's to stop using him. They are neglecting many other champions and causing massive imbalance for the regular player base. The fact that the 2nd and 3rd lowest win rate champs (Ryze/Azir 44%) in the game were both nerfed on 8.8 blows my mind.

What I believe Riot needs to do: 1: Balance for the regular players. Ignore the pro's. 2: Force champion diversity in the competitive scene by using variable # of lockouts/bans. This could be done many different ways, for example. -In a best-of series you cannot play champions that were played in previous games -Or in a best-of series add 10 more bans on top of previous bans so that on the 1st game there are 10 bans, but by the 5th game there are 40+10 new bans

Linna ExcelApr 19, 20181 votes

Unfortunately he's in a perpetually bad state because riot never really wants to admit his core theme is an issue. People are tired of riot always trying to fix him because we know that in another 6 months he's going to need another fix.