Riven and Vayne and what they have in common

So Riot have basically thrown out the same exact excuse on these two champs: they are "definitely strong" even for high-skill cap champions, but they are not entirely convinced they need to be nerfed (because fanbases and popularity are just such good reasons).

So the question is: is Riot really wrong on the topic?

Answer: Yes and no.

It's weird to hear that the answer is both, but the truth is that as of current the issue with Riven and Vayne is that the problem of being overpowered lies outside their kit (being fucking obnoxious to face is still purely internal, but external things break this).

These are your two culprits: and , the poster children for overloaded items as of current.

Now to address the inevitable slew of posts that will immediately say "Oh, but those items offer basically nothing in stats and aren't particularly gold efficient. You'd basically be buying the passives". Yes. And what fucking incredible passives they are. In fact, let me use another item as an example for these passives: , an item that for a very long time was meme tier bad as an item. But despite being a god awful item that gave shit stat efficiency for an effect deemed largely not worth it, champions like and would still end up pretty much always gravitating towards it. Why? Because item synergy is a very underappreciated aspect of champions and their builds.

There was a period of time that was built pretty much exclusively on and because the item was just ostensibly bad on top of being too expensive. But those champs that used each and every part of the item to its peak effectiveness still bought it - and it was critically core to their kits. The issue started to arise when the item was expanded to try and make it better for other champions (the introduction of phantom hits onto it), and then the issue finally became prevalent when the item cost was reduced - this opened the item to being viably bought on more champions and caused it to become closer to a core item in their kits, bringing in the Vayne issue we now have.

Now we're at a similar impasse here where we have a pair of items whose most abusive champions that build them benefit from them to such an extreme that we have two options: nerf the champions into being pretty much locked into building those items exclusively, removing build diversity entirely for them, or we nerf the items to make them less pleasing for those champions and giving them more competitive build options. The third option is to just outright remove those items and rebalance champions for no longer having those items - but seeing as this fucking item still exists after practically two seasons of causing mayhem in terms of balance, the likelihood of that happening (even with it being the best option) are slim to none.

So that's where we stand - two champions abusing the fuck out of the effects of items otherwise just "nice" on other champions making them extremely problematic. The problem needs to be addressed in one of those two ways - nerf the champs or nerf the items. I know which one I'd prefer (I really would not mind never seeing Vayne or Riven again).

######Also the buff to Vayne to give her 50% CDR on her Q during her ult was horseshit, but it is also not the thing allowing her to burst down every single champion in the game which is what's making her stupidly unfair right now. Although if we removed that we could actually stick to and kill her easier, so I'd say that's a fair argument as well.