Riot is bleeding revenue, yet continues to balance the game around the 0.1%

Blåbæret··40 votes·12,622 views

Khazix Kaisa Pyke Jax Kassadin Irelia Xayah (most fundamentally broken ADC in the game).

Sejuani RIP.

It's like you've been doing dumb shit for a long time and it just isn't working. At what point does common sense tell you to stop taking a dump in your own backyard?

https://www.pcgamesinsider.biz/news/67702/riot-isnt-even-close-to-breaking-even-on-league-of-legends-esports/

That's according to the company's pro-gaming chief Derrick "FearGorm" Asiedu, who posted on Reddit saying that the company splashes out in the region of $100m each and every year on esports - but that it is "not even close" to making this money back.

https://www.pcgamesinsider.biz/news/67622/report-league-of-legends-firm-riot-and-tencent-arent-getting-along-at-the-moment/

"League numbers are down from their peak, but it's still one of the most-played games in the world and we're very happy with the numbers, and we think some of the new content we're putting out soon can only help with player numbers," Riot said in a statement to Dot Esports.

Yeah man, that Kha buff really did wonders!

64 Comments

Marshbouy12 votes

I'd say that "bleeding revenue" is a bit of a stretch, but they're definitely not doing too hot right now. Maybe it will be enough to make them start reconsidering their choices.

Dope Solo3 votes

You just lost 21% of your health, are you bleeding or did someone cut your arm off? https://gamesquill.com/pc/league-of-legends-revenue-tumbles-21-in-a-year/

Marshbouy11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dope Solo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m1gVcq4G,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-10-01T01:10:34.916+0000)

You just lost 21% of your health, are you bleeding or did someone cut your arm off? https://gamesquill.com/pc/league-of-legends-revenue-tumbles-21-in-a-year/

Do you have any more sources from anywhere that's more...reliable? I've never heard of this site before and it doesn't cite it's source for riot's data either.

Dope Solo2 votes

The same data has been reported across multiple sources. Do some searching.

EndlessSorcerer17 votes

You are the one making a claim.

The burden of evidence lies with you.

Malak2 votes

{quoted}

You are the one making a claim.

The burden of evidence lies with you.

I mean...he did post his sources...

EndlessSorcerer3 votes

They posted a link to what seems to be an unsourced article and claimed it as fact.

The closest thing I see to a source is the SuperData page linked in the article. It shows that League of Legends is the third-highest grossing PC title but it doesn't show any precise numbers or data from previous years to support the article's claims.

Karunamon2 votes

Superdata is a market intelligence firm and is generally reliable.

Enough with this attacking the source BS. Either point out a problem with the data or come up with something more substantial than an adhom.

EndlessSorcerer6 votes

If video games have taught me anything, I would remain perfectly functional.

The only hit-point that matters is the last one.

Naymliss8 votes

uhhh so nobody is going to question this?

Xayah (most fundamentally broken ADC in the game).

Have you heard of kallista? A champion so fundamentally flawed she has to be kept in the gutter no matter what? How about tristana with her insane range escape? Are you going to back your claim up?

D357R0Y3R4 votes

Kalista is an Azir situation

Also, i stopped reading op after he said that they balance for 0.1% when they nerfed garen shaco yorick janna for low elo

ankoanko191 votes

Wasnt Janna pick and ban in Diamond and masters tho? And she only recieved a small nerf they practically reverted

D357R0Y3R1 votes

? Not only she wasn't but OP is talking about esport

Janna was never an issue in esport except in ardent meta and ancient times

ModWulf Helhammer7 votes

2-3 patches a year focused primarily on pros suddenly means that they are the continuous focus.

Riot balances primarily for higher elo (plat+), but does address significant issues at both the extreme high and low ends of the skill bracket. And that’s how it should be. You should be striving to be better at the game, not have things catered down to you such that skill level stagnates.

Also how the hell is Xayah the "most fundamentally broken ADC in the game"?

Blåbæret6 votes

2-3 patches that leave the game in an inherently imbalanced state is unacceptable. You're also seemingly one of those who do not understand that solo queue is not the same as PREMADE TEAMPLAY.

ADCs are supposed to be easy kill targets. Kai'Sai, Draven and Xayah are pretty much self-sufficient ADCs that should not exist in a balanced game. ADC with CC and invulnerability. Of course it's broken rofl.

ModWulf Helhammer6 votes

High elo play beings to look more and more like pro comps the higher you go, because people understand meta game concepts and the importance of team comps.

For your average joe playing league in bronze to gold, those pro focused changes have a minimal effect.

And your judgement on ADCs is entirely wrong. You would have ADCs be controllable minions rather then face the possibility that they could be actual champions.

Blåbæret8 votes

Comps being similar doesn't mean they play the same (which they do not). Organized play vs. solo queue are highly dissimilar.

Nah, I'm just tired of being killed by a class entirely based around right-clicking from range. There's a reason people wanted ADCs out of the meta: they warp the game and make it revolve around them. Thanks to Stormazor this is still the case.

LTK KoRo1 votes

Since when Draven is self-sufficient? Also, you forgot about Vayne and Tristana, two ADCs with biggest amount of self-peel in game

flibitydoo1 votes

Okay but "most fundamentally broken whatever" when Kalista still exists and does what she does.

Blåbæret1 votes

{quoted}

Okay but "most fundamentally broken whatever" when Kalista still exists and does what she does.

Ye, but she's in the gutter.

flibitydoo1 votes

doesn't matter

keyword is, fundamentally

if she's in the gutter, she got put there because there's no way she can exist and be strong and have everyone else be okay with it

Śhunpo1 votes

Xayah is the most fundamentally broken ADC in the game because she just has a "nope" button that turns whatever situation she's in around. Giving an ADC a Fizz E AND making said Fizz E damage AND almost guarantee a root is a little more than IMBA.

ModWulf Helhammer6 votes

It's. Her. Ultimate.

With a cooldown of just under 2 minutes at max rank.

It's nowhere near anything like Fizz's E. No mobility, hardly any damage, and is for peel, not for engage or attack, and with 11 times the max rank cooldown.

I can't believe gameplay is actually calling Xayah broken design.

Śhunpo1 votes

Well, she IS an ADC that counters assassins and bruisers xD That's probably why since most people on the boards are either assassin mains or bruiser mains....or support mains who miss their CC due to her ult.

I'm just stating why people would think she's fundamentally broken in terms of design, I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with it.

MrFawknSunshine3 votes

so they are bleeding revenue based on what? what stats? source?

Blåbæret37 votes

{quoted}

so they are bleeding revenue based on what? what stats? source?

https://www.pcgamesinsider.biz/news/67702/riot-isnt-even-close-to-breaking-even-on-league-of-legends-esports/

They'd rather spend money on their e-sports bullshit and make the game shit for the people responsible for the company even being existence. Somehow they believe the game and esports can survive without a playerbase. Lmao.

MrFawknSunshine4 votes

well that simply states they havent broke even on the investment they made into Esports. it dont say over all as a company they are doing bad. and we have to remember and keep in mind they completely re did the pro scene and teams and how revenue is shared etc. its now more set up like nfl franchises. where you have to pay to be a member of the league and every one shares revenue from tv contracts and merch on a league wide scale.

Blåbæret22 votes

Sure, but there are countless reports on the player base having dipped as well. Riot being silent about it only adds to it being the truth.

MrFawknSunshine5 votes

ok but they arent bleeding $$$. RIOT is owned by TENCENT and TENCENT is partners with EPIC games which created fortnite. TENCENT as a whole is doing well.

riot for the last 2 seasons has catered more to casual players/new players to bring in revenue cuz older players already spent $ on the game and most likely wont be buying as much RP /spending $

so yes alot of older players may have left but there are tons of new players.

do i agree with the direction or how the game is? not really but is it dead? nope. is it at the height of its popularity? nope its kinda plateaued. its still the 2nd most viewed/streamed/played game behind fortnite currently.

it would be like saying pepsi is doing bad cuz they are #2 to coke a cola

TehNACHO2 votes

ok but they arent bleeding $$$. RIOT is owned by TENCENT and TENCENT is partners with EPIC games which created fortnite. TENCENT as a whole is doing well.

I do not see how Tencent doing well is an excuse that Riot isn't bleeding out.

riot for the last 2 seasons has catered more to casual players/new players to bring in revenue cuz older players already spent $ on the game and most likely wont be buying as much RP /spending $

I think this is a fundamental misunderstanding of F2P models and whales. F2P models are hyper skewed in that a tiny percentage of the playerbase provides the F2P game all of its income. Introducing new players is supposed to be a tool to provide whales with content - in a multiplayer game, the players are the content - and entice them to keep playing and keep spending. It's the older players who will continue to spend more.

It's from there you gotta understand the absolute catastrophe that would be League of Legend's plateau. If the growth slows down too much, League will stop growing entirely, and then you get WoW.

MrFawknSunshine3 votes

how do older players pay more when they already own all champs and majority of skins and shit they want to buy?

i own all champs. i have enough BE to not pay for another champ for the next 13 champs at least. its new accounts and new players that spend more RP to buy champs cuz they dont have the BE or skins cuz they dont have any and see all the new shinny shit.

theChibiTina1 votes

Ew. Spend money to get champs. Heck no. I grinded 200+ hours in the last 6 months to get the champs I want. I ain't gonna pay money for that. I'd rather save what precious little rp I do buy for skins. I can get champs for free and I hope other new players have the common sense to do the same. I'm up to 52 champs now which is technically more than I need anyway. 20-30 champs that you actually like after playing them a bit when they're on free rotation is more than enough.

woodvsmurph4 votes

That's not the issue.

  1. Numerous players of the game do not care about esport scene for lol at all.
  2. Esports is currently not self-sustaining even including ticket sales and merch.
  3. That sustain is coming from players - many of whom don't care about esports.
  4. The game is being balanced for something these players aren't interested in and being NEGATIVELY impacted for their experience.
  5. Yes eventually hopefully esport scene will self-sustain especially in light of recent adjustments. But by that point... Riot and/or Tencent may have moved on to other things leaving the game as something only played professionally or not at all.

You don't go to a restaraunt, pay and even tip well and expect to be treated like crap or indifferently while another person goes to the same place at the same time, gets everything for free and is waited on hand-n-foot and their car washed, waxed, and detailed for free while they eat. And if you did go to such a place... that place shouldn't expect to stay in business for long. Customer service matters. Treat paying customers like crap for too long and they go to your competitors.

So no... it's not exactly like Coke and Pepsi. Because both of those profit off what they are selling and focus on serving the customer (not a store they sell to or their delivery driver above all others).

Moreover... it doesn't matter if Tencent is doing well if Riot is not. If they aren't profitable, it's pretty easy and common for a business to close a branch that loses them money. And sure the losses are to be expected with all that they've invested into esports just recently and they changes they made. They're investing in the future of the pro scene. But if you don't have a player base... there's no pro scene to be had even if you have the infrastructure and pro players. I mean... imagine a world where nobody wanted to or could afford to play soccer growing up. Now how are you supposed to have professional soccer teams? Ta da. And that is the issue with overlooking and mistreating long term customers who actually keep Riot afloat in favor of the few who get all the profit from the game. You lose your players... and eventually your fans and future pros. And then you have nothing.

The fix isn't easy, but it starts with a good guiding framework which experts and veterans at Riot can then use to guide their decision-making. Stuff like I've posted about how to balance champions properly for instance. (net power curves, skewed power curves; mobility, durability, and damage triumvirate)

Spank the Fox1 votes

Stop making anologies for the love of god.

Nausicäa 12 votes

Why even bother commenting on things about which you're clearly ignorant?

  1. Tencent profit falls for the first time in nearly 13 years, sending stock down more than 6 percent. This is according to their Q2 earnings reported in August 2018. So much for Tencent doing well as a whole?

  2. You clearly have no idea how businesses work. You think just because Tencent has stakes in other ventures and other sources of revenue that Riot can lose money and thats somehow acceptable? Sorry buddy thats not how things work, its not a balancing scale of Epic is making a lot of money and therefore Riot can lose money and it balances out. Tencent bought Riot to make money, not to lose it.

Not only are you uninformed but you have an extremely naive view of the world.

MrFawknSunshine4 votes

yet tencent hasnt shut down league. and 6% isnt that big of a dip and cant be directly related to riot or league. and also the stock market has ebbs n flows. what else could influence their profit and stock? any world related political issues? or we gonna be narrow minded and naive to think it all has to do with riot games ?

Nausicäa 7 votes

Please get an education before trying to argue with people. Take some classes and work on your reading comprehension.

First of all 6% represents literally hundreds of millions of dollars, and you again show your total lack of knowledge and naivety. Second I never suggested that Tencent's drop in revenue is directly related to Riot. You claimed that Tencent is doing 'well as a whole', and i merely provided evidence debunking your claim. Furthermore as I already stated whether or not Tencent is doing well is irrelevant to the issue of Riot's profitability. Tencent did not purchase Riot to lose money.

MrFawknSunshine4 votes

ok 6% is still a small amount. in you look at their entire net worth. you can say blah blah its hundred of millions of dollars

when tencent is worth around 270 billion that means the lost 162 million. https://dotesports.com/business/news/tencent-reports-219-billion-annual-revenue-for-2016-13712 Tencent’s market cap now stands at $270 billion In fact, online games revenue grew by 16 percent, which was mainly driven by “PvP and RPG genre smartphone games,” Tencent reported. for its fiscal 2016, an increase of 48 percent over the year. Tencent’s annual sales grew by 43 percent

Net Worth of Riot Games: It is estimated that Riot Games earned revenue around $21.6 billion. The premier stakeholder Tencent Holdings invested $400 million. Form the capital firms like Benchmark Capital and FirstMark Capital; the game company got $7 million. League of Legends earned revenue worth $964 million, https://www.celebsnetworthtoday.com/bio-wiki-2018-2019-2020-2021/other/riot-games-net-worth-4302/

so plz show me where the bleeding is

Nausicäa 6 votes

Yes im sure thats how companies operate.

They all sit around in their board rooms and say, 'we only lost 162 million this year guys, dont worry we're still worth $270 billion.' The goal of a business is to make a profit and then to increase profits every year. Any loss in revenue is a big deal.

When you finally leave your basement and get some basic knowledge and understanding of how the world works get back to me.

MrFawknSunshine6 votes

why do you have to be so insulting? can you not have a conversation with out being an ass? i provide links with data and #s about how they have grown in the last two years since buying riot and how their stocks have rose. yet you wanna insult me saying im a basement dweller and other nonsense. matter of fact no one knows if RIOT IS BLEEDING $$$ cuz ya know what RIOT is private and dont have to release their finical information to the public. however TENCENT is public and their finical is public. which i provided.

yes companies want to make profit every year. but sometimes there are reasons they dont that are more then a video game being bad and every one is crying to sky is falling.

there is a lot of complex reasons why a companies stock can rise and fall. but their value as a whole and stock is up. their stock is double where it was 2 years ago when they bought league. now to say league is making tencent bleed money as the sole reason why they didnt profit this year is jumping to conclusions

Karunamon1 votes

You might not be wrong, but you're definitely being an ass about it.

MrFawknSunshine1 votes

saying im being an ass? or the person commenting to me?

MrFawknSunshine4 votes

https://imgur.com/a/O0hIPN1

if you look at this graph TENCENT as a whole has climbed for the last few years and after peaking early this year they went down a lil bit but still higher then they have been in years considering that in 2016 the were valued at 17.97usd and now 40.84usd. which is more then double where they were 2 years ago

Dethflash1 votes

[deleted]

MrFawknSunshine2 votes

i was talking about TENCENT the company that owns riot

tencent the company that owns riot is publicly traded.

which i also stated.

Vlada Cut2 votes

{quoted}

https://www.pcgamesinsider.biz/news/67702/riot-isnt-even-close-to-breaking-even-on-league-of-legends-esports/

They'd rather spend money on their e-sports bullshit and make the game shit for the people responsible for the company even being existence. Somehow they believe the game and esports can survive without a playerbase. Lmao.

Pretty much this. I barely have my doubts things would change even if Riot manages to split away from the company that biught them on tue first place.

boricCentaur12 votes

Ok your just dumb they dont just balance around the .1% since if they did things would be a lot better for fuck sake aatrox and lucian were doing good at the .1% and got buffs and look at Kai'Sa she has been boken in the .1% for so long and all the nerfs she got did nothing since they were smal nerfs. Also balancing base on the best players is how you actually make the game more balanced since they know how to play the game if you balance base on the overall player base it will just dumb down the game and that is not my opinion that is a fact.

Blåbæret10 votes

Lmao, no one's telling Riot not to Balance the game around the best. HOWEVER, PRO ORGANIZED TEAMPLAY IS NOT THE SAME AS THE HIGHEST TIER SOLO QUEUE PLAY. YOU CAN'T BALANCE A GAME AROUND 5-MAN PREMADES WHICH 99,99999% DO NOT PLAY.

Do you get it now?

boricCentaur12 votes

{quoted}

Lmao, no one's telling Riot not to Balance the game around the best. HOWEVER, PRO ORGANIZED TEAMPLAY IS NOT THE SAME AS THE HIGHEST TIER SOLO QUEUE PLAY. YOU CAN'T BALANCE A GAME AROUND 5-MAN PREMADES WHICH 99,99999% DO NOT PLAY.

Do you get it now?

Most of my points work for pro play since if you actually fucking watch it aartox was still picked after the nerfs but they buffed him. Kai'Sa has been the top adc for pro play and there not giving her any big nerfs. The biggest proof that they dont balance obly around pro play is fucking varus he has been consistently one of the of the best adcs in pro play for like two seasons. Noc has also a lot of bans and picks where he's nerfs. The only fucking time they do is when a champion is actually a problem in both soloQ and pro play noc is a good example of this he has not been op in soloQ but he has been op in pro play. There are very few time where a champion gets nerfed or there are around 3 patches that are for pro play but they do amost anything in soloQ

DragonShea2 votes

And this is just one many pieces of evidence that proves that S8 is the worse season in league history. Face it, when you switch from actually balancing the game to just trying to make it a hype machine you are gonna piss off your customers. You dont just diminish the quality of the product you made once you get rich and hope that people are gonna support you afterwards based on loyalty, it goes both ways.

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