IF The only thing that Matters is MMR and Rank Doesnt Worth Shit Then show me My MMR not my RANK

jng dif victim·May 8, 2019·188 votes·22,246 views

Why do u show me my rank if it doesnt matter at all and everything depends on MMR ? show me my mmr not my rank

129 Comments

JamareeMay 8, 201977 votes

Ain't that the fucking question of the year?

DisulfiramMay 8, 201931 votes

Up until season 3 you would be shown your MMR (called ELO). They then decided to hide it:

We decided to move to the new league system for a few reasons. For starters, having a single ladder with all ranked players doesn't provide a lot of incentive for advancement. When you’re ranked 290,000 and have 289,999 opponents left to pass on the way up, that process can seem meaningless and interminable. Tiers and divisions also provide milestones and manageable goals you can strive to achieve at your skill level. Through leagues we can move away from focusing on a single number as the core indicator of a player’s skill, and instead move toward something more compelling: competition on a small ladder with a relatable number of opponents.

Source: https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/League_system#Season_3_FAQ

jng dif victimMay 8, 201932 votes

{quoted}

. Through leagues we can move away from focusing on a single number as the core indicator of a player’s skill

they didnt move away . They are Still Focusing on that single NUMBER as the core indicator of a player’s skill ! BUT they are not showing me that number .

FOR JUSTICEMay 8, 201911 votes

Because they felt (Riot felt, not me) showing you that number wasnt actually a very good incentive to climb. It looks and sounds much more tedious to surpass 200,000 people then say, climb from silver -> gold

PhDs NutsMay 8, 201916 votes

[{quoted}](name=FOR JUSTICE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lzzvNh6E,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-05-08T12:24:08.283+0000)

Because they felt showing you that number wasnt actually a very good incentive to climb. It looks and sounds much more tedious to surpass 200,000 people then say, climb from silver -> gold

That doesn't make sense either. ELO was never a number that represented your rank in the entire population. You would never be 200,000 ELO. It was like 0-2400. 1600 ELO didn't mean you were in the top 1600 players...or the bottom 1600 I guess since it goes up as you do better... actually that entire reasoning from Riot is straight up nonsense lol.

InfernapeMay 8, 201914 votes

Even more so when DotA 2 uses the same system and actually shows you your MMR while they also have traditional ranks (Immortal in DotA is Challenger in League).

Haze97May 8, 20196 votes

i honestly do not understand why people still stick to League when Dota has a better ranked system, a more balanced game, a better client, and an actual voice chat.

That's everything League players have been asking for. Yet people slog away at league.

At the moment I play both. Got into Dota 2 and while I do play League from time to time, I mostly play Dota 2 because it's got features which League should have implemented ages ago such as a visible MMR and voice chat. The only reason I still play League every now and then is because I haven't unlocked ranked on Dota yet.

PaletongueMay 8, 20195 votes

I can give you my personal opinion, as I tried DOTA2 out a while ago.

It was too fast paced, seemed to have too many items, and was very reactionary, so whatever enemy pulled off their combo first as victorious; more about speed than strategy.

But now that's happening to League too, its has become more similar to DOTA in the specific way I didn't like. I hope the item clean up they are working on in League does something, but there's far much more work to be done before League gets back to the strategic way it was before, far from DOTA.

Haze97May 8, 20192 votes

Dota 2 isn't any faster paced than LoL, and definitely not a one shot fiesta lmao. That title goes to LoL.

Yes, I understand what you're trying to say but Dota 2 feels that way because it doesn't have a forced meta of 1 top, 1 mid, jungle, and duo bot and the heroes there are free to roam throughout the game forcing teamfights. On the contrary in LoL you spend the first 10 mins farming your lane only to occasionally harass your opponent at times and you don't roam nearly as much. In Dota 2 you have teamfights right from the get go and that's one reason for why you would want to build a solid team comp where you don't stack five late game carries unlike LoL in which anything works (ffs, pick Jax and you can still play the early game just fine or take a Renekton and still delete the opponent ADC at 30 mins).

Unlike LoL you can also still easily escape most ganks provided you're fast enough, especially if you're a melee unit who can take a few hits. The damage in Dota 2 is way lower unless the opponent is severely fed and one shots don't happen nearly as often as in LoL where if you get hit by one knock up you're dead.

Despite all that, Dota 2 matches usually go on for over 40 minutes easily whereas the optimal time for LoL's matches are somewhere around 25 mins if played right. LoL is definitely the faster paced game out of the two and that goes doublefold for when you play champs such as Katarina or Lee Sin.

Combat in LoL needs you to chain up multiple combos with such champs and is usually far more intensive than Dota's boring auto attack fiesta where every goddamn hero sits around trying to auto attack another to death.

PaletongueMay 8, 20192 votes

well you certainly know more about DOTA than I do, I just had to stop playing because of me getting one shot repeatedly in my personal experience. I only played for a week, not a big sample size.

And I agree with all of your league complaints, it really has degenerated.

LeetriMay 9, 20191 votes

I tried Dota 2 back when it was in closed beta, so any of this could've changed by now. My literal first ever game and some russian tells me to kill myself and uninstall because I haven't memorized the entire wiki yet. The heroes are dull as dirt, there's like no personality there (some look cool tho). Most of the heroes are super obvious copies of Warcraft heroes, to the point it's bothersome. You can use 1 ability before you have to walk back to base cause you're out of mana and someone else is hogging the courier. It's way, way, way easier to troll your team. You can play and finish 1 entire game of League before some of the CC wears off. If you die you lose gold, putting you even further behind with way less of a chance to catch back up. Every item has some active you need to keep track of. Some heroes hard counter you so you don't get to play the game. Turn speed makes the game feel laggy and unresponsive. And worst of all, there's 50 billion different mechanics you absolutely have to learn before you can even start to compete.

Haze97May 9, 20192 votes

Oh boy, looks like you're better off playing Tetris.

radamanthiMay 10, 20191 votes

Just started playing Dota 2, bloodseeker jg is amazing. And I'm super surprised that all the heros are free!

ZeyphelMay 8, 201930 votes

It is funny that you are being ranked by your rank, yet you get matched in games by your MMR.

Gold Players matched against Diamond 2 player to get out of gold. Totally fine.

U R Good At GameMay 8, 201918 votes

Hey guys, why not both? On my profile show me my Gold Logo and above or below it say "XXXX mmr"... Why does it have to be a this OR that?

Haze97May 8, 20192 votes

These guys should take a look at Dota 2 and learn so much more from the system there. Especially on how to add a voice chat to the game and implement a better ranking system.

3TWarriorMay 8, 20192 votes

well, the problem with voice chat is that it's always a nightmare. It adds a lot of latency to the game, people spam it in every way imaginable, it makes people who actually USE IT feel like you are ignoring them if you mute it, accents are a thing...etc

then to add insult to injury, Riot balances in pro play when voice chat is part of pro play and gives those players an edge while they simultaneously have every advantage in the book that even the best players do not

Legion of CursedMay 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

It just has better gameplay, period.

2Charmnot2CharmMay 9, 20192 votes

{quoted}

These guys should take a look at Dota 2 and learn so much more from the system there. Especially on how to add a voice chat to the game and implement a better ranking system.

2019 and we still don't have fing voice chat.

People can make excuses about toxic players all they want, they can just grow up and hit the mute button like they are supposed to do.

Haze97May 9, 20193 votes

Nah these guys are special. These morons would rather mash the downvote button over the mute button and then cry about toxicity.

LiquidifyMay 8, 20199 votes

They claimed the change was because seeing your physical rank was causing anxiety and felt grindy.

What exactly does having to reach promos and WIN 2/3 or 3/5 of your next games do? Cause anxiety after a grind.

They changed to a league system to let players feel good about achieving something they don’t deserve. Then add promotion helpers and demotion prevention to keep said players happy. Regardless of how negatively it impacts quality of games when someone who clearly doesn’t deserve to have a rank HAS the rank and gives up because they know they won’t lose their rank.

I will never understand that argument being present in a COMPETITIVE game mode.

5050BSMay 8, 20192 votes

S8 I Played Promos from S1-G5 over 25 times..... Grindy? FFS EVERY loss in those Promos was because Riot puts the WORST TOXIC TROLL players on your team for Promos. EVERY TIME.

Ambitious MinnowMay 9, 20196 votes

Blows my mind to see people here defending such a ridiculous system.

Common Sense : let's find a system that rewards people for winning and punishes them for losing!

Riot: Nah, let's write a complex flawed algorithm to guess at people's skill level and help them advance the ranks when they have less than a hundred ranked games and no clue, and to hold a bunch of veterans back with noobs in "Silver" which is pretty much a box of chocolates for what you get for teammates.

SorostaranMay 9, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ambitious Minnow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lzzvNh6E,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2019-05-09T18:40:52.700+0000)

Blows my mind to see people here defending such a ridiculous system.

Common Sense : let's find a system that rewards people for winning and punishes them for losing!

Riot: Nah, let's write a complex flawed algorithm to guess at people's skill level and help them advance the ranks when they have less than a hundred ranked games and no clue, and to hold a bunch of veterans back with noobs in "Silver" which is pretty much a box of chocolates for what you get for teammates.

Rito MMs based on your hidden MMR rather than your Rank. For example, if you have high MMR but start the season late after people in your MMR have already ground back to display Ranks normal for your MMR, you get mostly MMed with them despite your lower display Rank. This is very obvious from grinding alts back up you don't bother with until late into the season. If you are a veteran who keeps getting MMed with "noobs," then you are a veteran whose "noob" MMR has been well established.

That has everything to do with your Ranked performance and nothing to do with the display Rank system.

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

Ambitious MinnowMay 10, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Rito MMs based on your hidden MMR rather than your Rank. For example, if you have high MMR but start the season late after people in your MMR have already ground back to display Ranks normal for your MMR, you get mostly MMed with them despite your lower display Rank. This is very obvious from grinding alts back up you don't bother with until late into the season. If you are a veteran who keeps getting MMed with "noobs," then you are a veteran whose "noob" MMR has been well established.

That has everything to do with your Ranked performance and nothing to do with the display Rank system.

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

Nothing you said here is anything other than total gibberish. You clearly don't even understand what I'm saying. Anything that's 'deducing' player's proper skill level is designed by humans, fallible, and game-able. Often also just plain not dependable. There are countless examples of why this MMR system is dumb and pointless, you just defend it because you read other things that sound good and repeat them like a parrot.

The only way you will ever have a real idea of people's skill levels is if the difficulty is tied to ascending in rank, and gain/loss is static number of points. Whatever the point number is, you would instantly see a clear pattern in the distribution. It would be THOUSANDS OF TIMES more reliable than the current MMR system, in which lucky games, especially in placement or early in account life, can drastically affect the MMR tied to your account. Why? Because only many games and wins, or an insane win rate plus long life or win rate, could get you into top tiers quickly where there would be vets with thousands of wins at an actual-respectable-close-to-but-over 50% win rate. You shouldn't be able to start a new account and be starting anywhere other than real close to the bottom.

You see accounts in silver and bronze with 30% winrates! That should be bottom Iron! It's a fact you have players that have played LoL less than a hundred times in ranked silver games, they have no clue besides what the internet told them. It's obvious, everyone sees it.

SorostaranMay 12, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ambitious Minnow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lzzvNh6E,comment-id=001b00000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T08:45:12.171+0000)

Nothing you said here is anything other than total gibberish. You clearly don't even understand what I'm saying. Anything that's 'deducing' player's proper skill level is designed by humans, fallible, and game-able. Often also just plain not dependable. There are countless examples of why this MMR system is dumb and pointless, you just defend it because you read other things that sound good and repeat them like a parrot.

The only way you will ever have a real idea of people's skill levels is if the difficulty is tied to ascending in rank, and gain/loss is static number of points. Whatever the point number is, you would instantly see a clear pattern in the distribution. It would be THOUSANDS OF TIMES more reliable than the current MMR system, in which lucky games, especially in placement or early in account life, can drastically affect the MMR tied to your account. Why? Because only many games and wins, or an insane win rate plus long life or win rate, could get you into top tiers quickly where there would be vets with thousands of wins at an actual-respectable-close-to-but-over 50% win rate. You shouldn't be able to start a new account and be starting anywhere other than real close to the bottom.

You see accounts in silver and bronze with 30% winrates! That should be bottom Iron! It's a fact you have players that have played LoL less than a hundred times in ranked silver games, they have no clue besides what the internet told them. It's obvious, everyone sees it.

What you said was just plain stupid.

There are many ways players with 30% win rates can justifiably be in Silver or Bronze or even higher. The certainty with which you believe that these players belong in low Iron knowing only their 30% win rate betrays your stupidity. Not all 30% win rates are created equal. For example, MM might have prior information on the player, suspect that he was a Platinum II level player, and proceed to match him into a high MMR series of games, gradually learning that he was not quite as good as MM expected, but where a low Iron would be expected to win less than 1% instead of 30%.

You can bring up several new accounts on 1 co-op FWotD a day each for six months, by the time you start to play Ranked with them, somehow Rito knows they are all smurfs and match you against Gold, Plat, and Diamond players even when they place you in Bronze II to start. Let's say you play 50 games against such competition and win half of them, the system is well justified in skipping you right to high Silver and continuing to give you double the LP gains on wins than LP loss on losses in these games, because you clearly deserve to be higher Rank based on your performance against the competition they MM you with.

In the mean time, a player who has played 2,000 games with a well established Bronze I MMR who lucks into high Silver ought to lose twice the LP on a loss than he gains on a win, because he deserves to be in Bronze I. Playing a lot of games just means that MM has higher confidence on your skill level. You can know very little from win rate alone without knowing what kind of games Rito MMed you into to come to that win rate.

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

ThingamajigMay 8, 20194 votes

because the system got changed in saeson 3 to give better sense of player position on the ladder since 1600 lp didn't mean much if you win/lose 20 you are at your division bracket if you win more you are below your division if you win less you are above your division

nelogisMay 8, 201913 votes

Diamond+ says no

ThingamajigMay 8, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Diamond+ says no

well i guess going from position 1 116 000 to 1 320 000 while you slept was a better system

nelogisMay 8, 20192 votes

didn't say it was better

ThingamajigMay 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

didn't say it was better

that is the alternative you being at 1750 elo meant just that

nelogisMay 8, 20192 votes

you can just do "1500-2000 elo equals Diamond"

So people can say "hey i reached Diamond" without this LP and Promo system

ThingamajigMay 8, 20192 votes

{quoted}

you can just do "1500-2000 elo equals Diamond"

So people can say "hey i reached Diamond" without this LP and Promo system

THIS IS HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS

how do you think your LP gains are decided? riot flipping a coin? have you no sense of logic?

nelogisMay 8, 20193 votes

WITHOUT this LP and Promo system

The system you tell me is WITH LP and Promos

Also I genuienly think they are rolling the dice when determining LP gain, I gain 24 per win, promote and boom

16 per win

Edit: Especially shitty in Diamond 4. You can just be hardstuck with winrates of 65% here.

In R6 you would just increase in rank with that winrate, see the difference?

ThingamajigMay 8, 20193 votes

{quoted}

WITHOUT this LP and Promo system

The system you tell me is WITH LP and Promos

Also I genuienly think they are rolling the dice when determining LP gain, I gain 24 per win, promote and boom

16 per win

Edit: Especially shitty in Diamond 4. You can just be hardstuck with winrates of 65% here.

In R6 you would just increase in rank with that winrate, see the difference?

average elo of p1 2.2k average elo of d4 2.4k you go in p1 at neutral elo you gain 100 lp and win your promos lets say you won your promos at 3/2 now you are 2320 elo where the average is 2.4k you are below the average and thus are getting lower lp gains

now the moment you reach the 2.4k your elo gains will normalize and if you do shoot up with a fairly high win rate to d3 your elo will be higher than 2.5k which is the average of d3 and thus you will be gaining good lp

now if you go to d3 with 55% win rate and you are on the average 2.5k as you promote and you go on a 4-5 game losing streak you won't demote due to demotion protection but your elo goes down to 2.4k while you are at d3 which is below the average of D3 and thus you will be gaining shit lp for a while until you normalize your win rate again

This means that you can be gaining shit elo with a high win % just because you went on a losing streak on a demotion protection

Ie the the new system protects you from your tilt

but no just bash on the system without understanding how it works

The numbers i used are fictional and serve to illustrate my point the actual numbers may or may not vary

nelogisMay 8, 20198 votes

Especially shitty in Diamond 4. You can just be hardstuck with winrates of 65% here.

In R6 you would just increase in rank with that winrate, see the difference?

Now re-read your reply

What is the point in promoting me to an elo where the average elo is higher than mine?!

That by definition just says that I shouldn't be there and it demoralizes everyone that gets there. Why do you think D4 is such a shithole?

"Oh well you were Iron 4 but then you instantly promoted to Grandmaster so your LP gains are naturally +0.1 per win and -500 per lose until it normalizes again, just have to have a 99% winrate lmao good luck"

Pure stupidity

Just remove the promos, and make the whole rank just LP based, you gain XY LP per win and lose XY per lose depending on how well you are doing.

Then put ranks on the LP and you're done.

So you don't hop from 2.2k to 2.4k for no fucking reason bricking your progress in the process which would have been totally fine if you increased the hop by a normal amount.

The thigh guyMay 8, 20193 votes

{quoted}

because the system got changed in saeson 3 to give better sense of player position on the ladder since 1600 lp didn't mean much if you win/lose 20 you are at your division bracket if you win more you are below your division if you win less you are above your division

That’s why they can keep ranks. And attach them to mmr brackets. Boom problem solved. Course this is riot. They’ll likely just make another money grab season pass instead.

ThingamajigMay 8, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lzzvNh6E,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-05-08T13:36:26.761+0000)

That’s why they can keep ranks. And attach them to mmr brackets. Boom problem solved. Course this is riot. They’ll likely just make another money grab season pass instead.

this is what we have??????????????????????? complaining for the sake of complaining with 0 idea of how the system works

The thigh guyMay 8, 20192 votes

{quoted}

this is what we have??????????????????????? complaining for the sake of complaining with 0 idea of how the system works

Really? This is how the system works.

Visible rank - means fucking nothing. This is what you grind for to tell your friends.

Mmr - your actual rank. Riot hides it from you for........... reasons?

ThingamajigMay 8, 20191 votes

[deleted]

The thigh guyMay 8, 20194 votes

{quoted}

please go get diamond with your bronze mmr or let me tell it another way please go get 2.2k mmr with your 1.1k mmr

Funny stuff. Doesn’t have an actual argument. “You you you, you’re bronze!” On an account that doesn’t play ranked. Cool dude.

LordBadTooMay 8, 20194 votes

I'm just curious but lets assume that you know your MMR, what difference does that make? How does that information change anything for you at all?

Your MMR is used exclusively for matchmaking purposes, it has no bearing on your division and your place in the ranked league. It just determines what opponents are appropriate for you based on a mathematical equation. Your rank defines how good of a player you really are, it is your place in the League and defines how well you have performed, except it does it in an easily digestible fashion. Having a XXXXXXX MMR is rather meaningless unless you understand how its calculated and know how you can effect it and that information no one knows, we can only guess beyond the basic "win games", which effectively is the only goal any player should have in League because lets face it, its the only things that matters.

Lazy GrandpaMay 8, 20196 votes

{quoted}

I'm just curious but lets assume that you know your MMR, what difference does that make? How does that information change anything for you at all?

Your MMR is used exclusively for matchmaking purposes, it has no bearing on your division and your place in the ranked league. It just determines what opponents are appropriate for you based on a mathematical equation. Your rank defines how good of a player you really are, it is your place in the League and defines how well you have performed, except it does it in an easily digestible fashion. Having a XXXXXXX MMR is rather meaningless unless you understand how its calculated and know how you can effect it and that information no one knows, we can only guess beyond the basic "win games", which effectively is the only goal any player should have in League because lets face it, its the only things that matters.

it matters because mmr is what determines your lp gains/losses. if you play in silver 2-gold4 all the time whilst in bronze because ''game must have progression'' it's bulshit. you will lose like 6lp and earn about 28lp for every game until your rank gets close to your mmr at which point you've effectively reached the starting point for like every other game with a ranking system in existence.

nobody goes through placements thinking man it would be awesome if i could fight plat players in gold 4 just to climb to the very rank i'm already fighting in. god forbid you just get placed in your rank and mmr goes up or down depending on losses with mmr changes getting less and less with more games played. or preferably based on average stats of a player in that rank.

not to mention smurfs making all the games they're in inherently unfair. the fucked up balance where not picking the specific bullshit champions with little to no counterplay and beating everyone anyway through sheer bullshit that other kits can't cope with is basically asking to lose, which actually enhances the unfairness of smurfs, due to the sheer amount of damage/mobility creep. in other words smurfs do less work for better results, while the regular player has to put in way more effort just to get worse results, maybe even not make a difference. (you can switch "smurfs" with "OP champ" and ''regular player'' with "low tier champion" if you want)

then there's autofill which again adds on to things.

what you're left with is endless frustration just to equalize your mmr and rank. then you get the actual climb where you're supposed to get better and go higher.

so do you really believe it wouldn't make a difference? i know it would reduce my frustration levels, which to me matters a lot and would help.

i kind of regret not playing the game more back when i enjoyed it more :(

HeeroTXMay 8, 20198 votes

It is relevant because of all the "Riot matchmaking sucks" threads. We keep getting "I'm Iron 3 getting matched with Gold 2s", which are answered (by other players) with "because their MMR sucks or yours is really good", which is EASILY provable (or disputable) if we could SEE the MMR. Either the whole system runs on a single number, OR the system runs on your rank, but don't run it on a number but TELL us it's based on your rank.

Or, as others have SAID, here's the SIMPLE way to fix things:

Dump promos
"Rank" is based on people between MMR values X and Y, period. So if I have an MMR of 500 I'm rank Y and if I have MMR of 2000 I'm rank Z

This makes things simple and maintains the "illusion" to give people incentive to climb. But the current (longstanding) system of "you're Rank X, but your MMR is higher, so keep punching buttons like a monkey and EVENTUALLY your rank will be 'correct'" is assinine.

Ambitious MinnowMay 8, 20192 votes

{quoted}

It is relevant because of all the "Riot matchmaking sucks" threads. We keep getting "I'm Iron 3 getting matched with Gold 2s", which are answered (by other players) with "because their MMR sucks or yours is really good", which is EASILY provable (or disputable) if we could SEE the MMR. Either the whole system runs on a single number, OR the system runs on your rank, but don't run it on a number but TELL us it's based on your rank.

Or, as others have SAID, here's the SIMPLE way to fix things:

Dump promos

"Rank" is based on people between MMR values X and Y, period. So if I have an MMR of 500 I'm rank Y and if I have MMR of 2000 I'm rank Z

This makes things simple and maintains the "illusion" to give people incentive to climb. But the current (longstanding) system of "you're Rank X, but your MMR is higher, so keep punching buttons like a monkey and EVENTUALLY your rank will be 'correct'" is assinine.

How can any of you possibly discuss continuing a system that gives out different number of points in first place? How stupid. The only reason since of you support MMR system is you some you are the magical better player that will be gaining more points. If I told you would always get 17lp per win and lose 20, you would veto that system as unfair. Why is less aha more points better?

Flat gains and losses please, let MMR system go.

HeeroTXMay 8, 20192 votes

I PREFER flat rank, whatever rank you are you ONLY play against your same rank (maybe above gold you can play with the tiers due to lower population, but below Plat, there should be no real issue with "Bronze only plays v Bronze, Silver v Silver, etc" (further I'm fine with "Only S4 vs S4, S3 v S3, etc") But I was just saying if Riot is DETERMINED to keep MMR, then at LEAST make rank and MMR more directly analogous. There should NEVER be a reason why (for example) a Bronze 2 plays against a Gold 1, especially since you can't make that duo.

VanTurinoMay 10, 20191 votes

Have you seen the number of players in Iron NA? Wait times would be outrageous. My smurf is hard stuck Iron but my main is in s5. How does that get explained? Its rough when you get 17lp for a win and -20lp for a loss. You cant hard carry every game. Some teams are just too heavy.