Why Riot Dont Accept The Fact That Current MatchMaking is Terrible?

jng dif victim·Apr 11, 2019·74 votes·18,648 views

if u check my last Solo Ranked Games. i won them all.im on a 8 win streak in soloq. so this is not a RANT after a lose. But the thing is even in my wins i dont have fun. skill diffrence is so high. my Wins are under 20 minutes and my loses are also under 20 minutes. when i go in a game its either my team so stronger then them that we just hard win 3 lanes and game ends in 15 minutes or they are so much stronger then us that game becomes a fiesta and they swap lanes in 7 minutes and i face their 10-0 ADC and support top.i mean games are over before the laning phase ends. usually i dont play For win. i just play to get better at the game and To be honest in these games i learn nothing.i cant get better at game when game ends in 10-15 minutes. and its literally every game like this. but for some reason RIOT dont do anything and dont admit that this matchmaking is broken it needs rework it needs changes players are suffering in ranked. im so tired man . so tired of posting on this boards and no body cares. i want to play League and enjoy it but i cant.

73 Comments

SaezioApr 11, 201915 votes

There is not enough people around to create even matches.

Which is the reason Riot don't show us the elusive MMR number.

I think we should all stop playing until MMR becomes visible at the very least.

LeetriApr 11, 20191 votes

MMR hasn't been visible since like season 2, are you saying there hasn't been enough players playing the game since then?

SaezioApr 11, 201911 votes

Oh you are right, let me clear it up.

Season 9 is the only season riot forbid sites like OP.GG to display MMR estimates.

Yeah our actual MMR has been indeed hidden for 7 years but it's only now that they decided estimates are not to exist too.

KarunamonApr 11, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Oh you are right, let me clear it up.

Season 9 is the only season riot forbid sites like OP.GG to display MMR estimates.

Yeah our actual MMR has been indeed hidden for 7 years but it's only now that they decided estimates are not to exist too.

Wait, what the literal fuck? When did they say that?

That's complete horseshit.

SaezioApr 11, 20192 votes

I mean. Sure maybe OP.GG decided to remove one of the main reasons people visited the site on their own...

The only site I know that still shows MMR estimates is whatismymmr.com

KarunamonApr 11, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I mean. Sure maybe OP.GG decided to remove one of the main reasons people visited the site on their own...

The only site I know that still shows MMR estimates is whatismymmr.com

Okay, then actually say they removed it, don't invent a reason out of thin air and pass it off as fact. Any MMR estimate anyone can make is likely garbage because they don't know the parameters being used on the backend, which is probably why they removed it.

SaezioApr 11, 20195 votes

OK, every major stat's site decided to remove their MMR estimates for no apparent reason during the same patch.

The parameters? Riot has told us the parameters used to determine MMR. " the more we win it rises and the more we lose it drops, it is also affected by the MMRs of the people in the match we lost/won"

Did they say there are other metrics? I never heard that statement.

Sorry if they have infact admitted that MMR changes depending on other stuff too.

KarunamonApr 11, 20192 votes

{quoted}

OK, every major stat's site decided to remove their MMR estimates for no apparent reason during the same patch.

The parameters? Riot has told us the parameters used to determine MMR. " the more we win it rises and the more we lose it drops, it is also affected by the MMRs of the people in the match we lost/won"

Did they say there are other metrics? I never heard that statement.

Sorry if they have infact admitted that MMR changes depending on other stuff too.

Riot is also big on hiding information. For instance, we now know there are 5 MMRs, because we have positional matchmaking. Who knows what else is going into that.

SaezioApr 11, 20195 votes

I just don't get why they don't simply do a hard reset on the whole MMR. I feel like all the hostility from the player base has made riot paranoid, while in reality, a good portion of the community would embrace a more direct Riot stance even if it meant we would see more of their mistakes. I, personally, don't give a fuck about how many things they do wrong, I just want them to own up to it and show us the data that backs up their decision making, or what their reasoning is. All I would like to see to come back to the game is honesty, effort and transparency. I think there is still time for the game to be saved for us westerners (because by the sound of it, there is no issue in the eastern servers and the population there is actually growing)

Being in the dark and having ZERO back and forth exchange of ideas is very demoralising and reminds me nothing of the riot of 2009-2010-2011 that ensnared our collective soul in this game that was never perfect, but it tried and we used to love that. I am honestly itching to play some games and am only not doing it because I feel I am being completely ignored as "someone that should jump in a jet engine".

ModAcademy KaynApr 12, 20193 votes

I just don't get why they don't simply do a hard reset on the whole MMR.

Because a hard reset on MMR will result in gods knows how long it'd take to sort everyone back up, and probably the worst player experience during said time. Because if people are complaining about facing Diamonds right now, gods know what'll happen when they're going to facing Diamond players whose MMR originally wasn't low enough to be in Plat Games.

MorbysApr 12, 20194 votes

This statement makes no sense, people who are in those ranks will rank up quickly, and quite honestly from what I have seen and played against, a great deal of those individuals don't even belong in those ranks. Resetting MMR, especially with how much the game has changed, makes perfect sense.

ModAcademy KaynApr 12, 20192 votes

Rank up quickly, amongst the Irons, Bronzes, Golds, and Plats. In mixed games mind you, so you could have Diamond two Diamond players on different teams, going against each other. One of them is going to have to lose, and so it continues on and on. It's still going to result in a shitty, unfair experience for the non-diamonds in the game.

Gamer LifeApr 12, 20193 votes

so whats your solution to the awful MMR system then?

league has been going for 9 years now and for the last x about of years people have been having problems with this MMR system and Riot just ignore

Kai GuyApr 12, 20193 votes

Look at how many players are already actively complaining about MM quality because of teammate inaccuracy's by the system caused by Tier changes and starting Tier.

This is the closest we have come to a hard reset and its pretty clear how well that gets received.

You lower the starting tier and still have an influx of new accounts? Ladders overall MMR is going to drop. Less starting value, weak players no longer provide free wins in the average mmr. A newbie who is learning or weak at the game and any smurf that's not from higher MMR tiers only ever contributed to helping move accounts that are climbing up thru mmr, despite how much it sucked when you have one on your team. The odds favored you to not get a game losing player over a string of games cuz theres less open slots on your team because your on it.

So those guys start lower, all the folks who could only maintain 50% over a long string of games are doomed to drop, they couldent get more wins in a situation they are favored to see free wins. Remove the free wins and now their % get dinged.

That's a expectation for every one in that tier btw.

Yea you can make a Slanted Gains off % to try and shift players into the MMR you want average players to be so it takes folks with a really negative win rate but then that Tier has more consistently uneven players thus less consistant matchmaking.

Also, and I don't think we talk about this often enough. The quality of a match has a lot to do with players. When a surplus of the playerbase is toxic then bad news, even if MM was a beast for its accuracy on skill gaps your gonna find a lot of negative matches from human interactions.

5050BSApr 12, 20191 votes

Riot ruined Rank for everyone in S9

They Tried to fix it with Diamond+ and its only working for Challengers

Everyone else is left with the broken shamble of a mess of Positional Ranks.

5050BSApr 12, 20191 votes

Interesting

SaiannaApr 11, 201910 votes

They know it is. My guess is they cannot really fix it, cause the playerbase is diminishing. With proper matchmaker you'd have to wait for 20 minutes, if not longer, for 1 game. You might say "i'd gladly wait a whole 1 hour for 1 fair game", but in reality those wait times would only accelerate playerbase decay.

Again my guess but I think they decided to keep it shitty like this, cause whatever buck they earn in western/european servers is just pocket money compared to asian market, so it's fine to keep it garbo if asian players are happy.

People have to learn this: ranked is not ranked anymore. Ranked doesn't track your skill, but your luck with throwing dice. It doesn't matter if you play like a god, or freshly dug out potato.

Narrow JackApr 11, 20197 votes

How do you know that the playerbase is diminishing?

SaiannaApr 11, 201924 votes

I know some smartsy-pantsy will deny it but the reason why I believe playerbase is withering is:

Riot actually increasing matchmaker match radius brackets (overall that's the whole issue with mm we have right now)
player activity on boards is not even 1/10th of what it used to be in S4-5. I can already hear "but boards isn't the game". Yeah, but each forum always has somewhat constant % of active players. If the game loses its players, so is dropping the player activity on forum.
Riot implementing DQ few years ago - that was the first sign of them trying to slow the playerbase diminishing. They did it to stop the 'leakage' of players.
overall player unhappiness is the highest since pretty much ever. And it keeps on rising still.
Ungodly awful new player experience.. since ever. Doesn't add to losing playerbase, but definitely isn't helping fix it.
Riot caters to asian market more, rather than western/eu. Is not exactly a point of diminishing playerbase, but shows they don't threat us as main customers. This is yet another 'feel' that we lost the strenght as playerbase, maybe because we aren't as numerous as we used to be.

There's also that part that almost everyone here says that their friends stopped playing.

Ofc I cannot back any of those statements with data, cause all the data is in Riots hands and they aren't sharing, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that those "vague arguments" do prove the point. And if you don't believe they are, just look at WoW. They have gone down in similar fashion. What used to be MASSIVE-MO with tens of millions of players is now reduced to hardly-a-million-players-big in western/eu and maybe 2-4m big in asia. Again Blizz hasn't showed any data, if anything they actually obscured it more, but still someone found a way to count playerbase in some way or another.

I'm expecting a wholesome denying now.

1800NICECLIENTApr 11, 20199 votes

{quoted}

I know some smartsy-pantsy will deny it but the reason why I believe playerbase is withering is:

Riot actually increasing matchmaker match radius brackets (overall that's the whole issue with mm we have right now)

player activity on boards is not even 1/10th of what it used to be in S4-5. I can already hear "but boards isn't the game". Yeah, but each forum always has somewhat constant % of active players. If the game loses its players, so is dropping the player activity on forum.

Riot implementing DQ few years ago - that was the first sign of them trying to slow the playerbase diminishing. They did it to stop the 'leakage' of players.

overall player unhappiness is the highest since pretty much ever. And it keeps on rising still.

Ungodly awful new player experience.. since ever. Doesn't add to losing playerbase, but definitely isn't helping fix it.

Riot caters to asian market more, rather than western/eu. Is not exactly a point of diminishing playerbase, but shows they don't threat us as main customers. This is yet another 'feel' that we lost the strenght as playerbase, maybe because we aren't as numerous as we used to be.

There's also that part that almost everyone here says that their friends stopped playing.

Ofc I cannot back any of those statements with data, cause all the data is in Riots hands and they aren't sharing, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that those "vague arguments" do prove the point. And if you don't believe they are, just look at WoW. They have gone down in similar fashion. What used to be MASSIVE-MO with tens of millions of players is now reduced to hardly-a-million-players-big in western/eu and maybe 2-4m big in asia. Again Blizz hasn't showed any data, if anything they actually obscured it more, but still someone found a way to count playerbase in some way or another.

I'm expecting a wholesome denying now.

To add to what you said, three big signs for me were:

1.) Adding permanent autofill even though everyone denounced it like the plague especially those in Diamond+. 2.) Claiming URF caused people to quit the game forever, and they didn't know why when League's balancing was at an all time low for SR. Everyone was super happy thinking it might become a new permanent game mode(just like Nexus Blitz.) Thinking the most fun League mode ever released at the time was killing the game is just inane. URF was released at a bad time to be able to make that correlation I suppose. Then DQ showed up later, lol. 3.) Reds no longer posting almost at all on the boards, and Riot filing copyrights for their new game Legends of Runeterra. I suspect a lot of League's previous devs moved on to focus on their new game(MMO?) Riot is just leaving League in a sad state the same way WOW did.

SaiannaApr 11, 20192 votes

Those are some good points. Also I had no clue Riot is going to make another game.. I'd say it's kinda too late, but hopefully it'll kick off just fine :)

Kai GuyApr 12, 20192 votes

Heres when official info on a new game was this article in 2017 with the quote being "We are thrilled to be able to have a great team of such capable leaders and look forward to working with them to finally put the “s” in Riot Games." Honestly I hope its an RTS as I haven't had a good RTS to play in a while. Thou Phoenix Point might scratch my Strategy game itch when it comes out despite being turn baised. Xcom fan I am.

Anyhow population issues are not exactly a fatal problem so long as you adjust matchmaker. There's no logical reason to use the same variables in Asia and NA unless its provable to function for both. I think a lot of issues come from the playerbase so losing them, despite not being good for riot, would be ok for dedicated players who enjoy moba gameplay.
In this thread Ash Lockheart has a post about the change to game time and some impact they feel this makes. I personally feel that the lower game time was done to keep the game more popular and accessible, to help it gain and maintain high # of players.

Considering the Turn and Burn style Battle royal populate short que times are more favorably viewed even with a insanely higher match quality variance and RNG. I don't think that is inherently a good thing for mobas.

I like that you mentioned dice in your first commend because that's what I tend to use when I want to illustrate how MMR systems work. With RNG Dice rolls. If we play a simple game with dice, who ever rolls higher wins. I give you the option between a d3,d6,d10,d12, and d20. I am going to use a d6. There is $50 riding on who gets the better role, Your intent is to win so what dice would you pick? Obviously the one with the best averaged performance to beat me. The point of Elo systems is pretty much to maximize the amount of games that near unwinnable unfair matches are created, d3 vs d20 for example. As its not RNG results but also impacted by player intent, its very difficult to 100% make it impossible for some one to intentional fall down the ladder. So quality tends to only grow from the starting value as you climb up the ladder and if your system takes accounts experience into consideration when its building matches. I use dice because Elo's theory is skill is a direct impact on your ability to win. If your ability to win is affected by skill then you can find skill by tracking wins constantly and adjusting as needed so that you place players around their Hidden level of skill into a range that they have reasonably fair odds to win or lose when the system is correct.

TheGreatNinxApr 12, 20191 votes

I mean they did bring on ghostcrawler so :\

JJuusharouApr 13, 20192 votes

You want the real proof that player base is dwindling ? Go to op.gg, go to NA, go to leaderboards, at the top it will say: There are currently 830,986 summoners on Summoner's Rift.

You know what that means right ? Only 830.986 players have played ranked ALL YEAR, on NA server, and that is including all those people who have 3 ranked games, and at least 30% being smurfs.

Now do the same for eu, op.gg -> EU -> leaderboards: There are currently 1,373,739 summoners on Summoner's Rift.

Only 1,373,739 players have played ranked ALL YEAR, on EU server, and that is including all those people who have 3 ranked games, and at least 30% being smurfs.

Now it should be quite clear, that the boasts of upwards of 80 million active players, are just pure lies. League is nowhere near, as popular as that anymore. If it ever was. YOu have to question what riot considers active players.

YOu can do this for every server btw.

Jennifer420Oct 12, 20191 votes

i sort by "recent/hot" and this thread is shown to me. 6 months old. lul.

what i'd like to add is that i dont get how lol reddit is still so defensive when it comes to riot. like im not saying lol reddit is like full of yes men (or im not saying that anymore) but damn. it honestly feels like lol reddit is full of chinese ppl that defend riot

KarunamonApr 11, 201913 votes

Superdata released a report indicating that revenue is down to 2014 levels as of the end of 2018. That can only mean there are fewer players.

Düff McWhalenApr 11, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Superdata released a report indicating that revenue is down to 2014 levels as of the end of 2018. That can only mean there are fewer players.

You know what, GOOD. Make a product worth paying for if money is your goal, Riot.

KarunamonApr 11, 20196 votes

[{quoted}](name=Düff McWhalen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hYEcPTPe,comment-id=0004000000010000,timestamp=2019-04-11T22:57:29.021+0000)

You know what, GOOD. Make a product worth paying for if money is your goal, Riot.

We both know that's not what's gonna happen. They'll never revert the shit changes, they'll just keep running around like headless chickens changing this and that wondering why nobody's playing their game anymore, when their players have been sitting there trying to tell them the entire time.

SaiannaApr 12, 20192 votes

Not even that. They will instead rush even faster to asian market. Every change since 2016~~ is directed more for them, rather than western/eu audience.

TheSingularityApr 11, 20197 votes

One big one is that Riot haven't bragged about their player count. It used to be their talk of the town but it's been years since they've announced it

5050BSApr 12, 20191 votes

Better to wait 20m for a even game then Play for 25-40m Yelling at the screen wishing your team would get struck by lightning

G0dEmperorTrumpMay 12, 20191 votes

{quoted} Ranked doesn't track your skill, but your luck with throwing dice. It doesn't matter if you play like a god, or freshly dug out potato.

^^^^ truth detected

jwLoveJanet4everApr 13, 20198 votes

enemy team: 2 diamonds, 3 gold, my team: 1 silver, 1 platinum,3 unrank, and riot call this fair match game

Wizard BlazeApr 11, 20197 votes

because Chinese cafe players loves it.

SilentBomberApr 12, 20196 votes

Dude please,It took them 2 years to accept the fact that matchmaking was problematic and issued changes at the system.Now that the system is more problematic,they will have to wait another year to accept that they fcked up.

They started with Diamond + plus tiers and ignored lower tiers.Because for them Silver 4 players playing against Gold 1 players in ranked is totally fair.

BanuvanApr 13, 20194 votes

Riot never accepts that their matchmaking is crap. Look at how they keep trying to change it with dynamic queue and positional ranks. They keep making stupid mistakes and not listening to anybody but themselves. Then their ideas fail horribly and they say sorry!

They haven't had good matchmaking or a ranked system in years. They can't get over their own egos and realize that they suck at making a fair and even ranked play.

jwLoveJanet4everApr 13, 20192 votes

Even in aram, matchmaking is suck too. the only way to find same skill level is play rank , but I have a long time not play SR, want play SR in normal to practice, but game end in 15 mins. so now how to make my skill better?

5050BSApr 13, 20191 votes

Nope Ranked is just as messed up. Even more so in S9

ChargeItDownMidApr 11, 20193 votes

Why can't people accept the fact that it is the meta and not matchmaking? The more you complain about matchmaking, the more you distract from the issues plaguing the game. Changing matchmaking will not fix the game. The sooner you accept that, the better it is for everyone.

Edit: Also, the meta and matchmaking are not the only factors in determining games. Other factors like afkers, leavers, trolls, etc. also negatively impact the game and exist independent of matchmaking.

jng dif victimApr 11, 201910 votes

{quoted}

Why can't people accept the fact that it is the meta and not matchmaking? The more you complain about matchmaking, the more you distract from the issues plaguing the game. Changing matchmaking will not fix the game. The sooner you accept that, the better it is for everyone.

What Meta? im not talking about meta. im not talking about meta/broken champions.im not talking about meta items.im talking about matchmaking. SKILL DIFFRENCE. in one game my ADC doesnt know even his runes and items and enemy ADC is smurfing and in next game enemy ADC is like that. or mid or jungle etc .... . my point is the SKILL DIFFRENCE not meta or snowball or anything. but since u bring it up i can talk about that too. WHY there should be a META THING in game at all? Why i should accept that ? why should a META THING even Exist in a game like league of legends ? and people supposed to accept that? and be like ok thats meta for this year and i should accept that. its okay that i played well in my last 5 games but i hard lost in 15 minutes well its SNOWBALL META this season and i have to accept it. IT DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE. U cant ask people to accept that. META ?

ChargeItDownMidApr 11, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jax is Broken,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hYEcPTPe,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-04-11T09:13:55.757+0000)

What Meta? im not talking about meta. im not talking about meta/broken champions.im not talking about meta items.im talking about matchmaking. SKILL DIFFRENCE. in one game my ADC doesnt know even his runes and items and enemy ADC is smurfing and in next game enemy ADC is like that. or mid or jungle etc .... . my point is the SKILL DIFFRENCE not meta or snowball or anything. but since u bring it up i can talk about that too. WHY there should be a META THING in game at all? Why i should accept that ? why should a META THING even Exist in a game like league of legends ? and people supposed to accept that? and be like ok thats meta for this year and i should accept that. its okay that i played well in my last 5 games but i hard lost in 15 minutes well its SNOWBALL META this season and i have to accept it. IT DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE. U cant ask people to accept that. META ?

It has nothing to do with skill difference, games are uneven because the game snowballs out of control. If you want to fix the game, you need to fix the snowballing. No one is asking you to accept the snowball meta, you should be looking for ways to make riot change the snowball meta.

However, the longer you waste time complaining about matchmaking, the longer it will take for the game to actually get fixed. You need to accept that matchmaking has nothing to do with the problems that plague the game.

AIQApr 11, 20191 votes

So wait the reason why I got the Jax that got upset and ran it down top.... The Jinx support for top lane that went cleanse TP left bot alone and replied with ":)"... The reason I got the Ahri that kept holding R instead of escaping... The Vlad thats said hes a gate keeper... The Bot that went 0/31/4 combined at 11 min... The Fiora that RQ after 2 deaths....

Was the META and snowballing!? It all makes sense now ty.

ChargeItDownMidApr 11, 20192 votes

{quoted}

So wait the reason why I got the Jax that got upset and ran it down top.... The Jinx support for top lane that went cleanse TP left bot alone and replied with ":)"... The reason I got the Ahri that kept holding R instead of escaping... The Vlad thats said hes a gate keeper... The Bot that went 0/31/4 combined at 11 min... The Fiora that RQ after 2 deaths....

Was the META and snowballing!? It all makes sense now ty.

Players tilting is a completely different issue. That has been happening since league began and will never go away. I'm more focused on the things that can actually be changed to improve games.

AIQApr 11, 20191 votes

Wait so banning those players wouldn't help? Oh.. You are very insightful.

So please tell me, how the META effects a master vs my P1 ally. Or perhaps having the MMR of my team average at P2 while theirs at D4? Is the META to take on lower ranked allies?

Changing gears to a more serious tone. I don't think you are so disillusioned that you honestly believe that the coin flip of having better or worst allies is not a factor. I just saw a fed D1 MID lose to a bunch of golds because his allies were just worse, that has nothing to do with the meta rather how trash those players are. You can say "well that's a unique circumstance", but I'd only agree if it wasn't the average game to have some degenerate ally lose the game for you and the "META" is can I carry this guy or not.

Your viewpoint is optimistic, but naive these players exist, and the matchmaking is not optimal. If you think that players still don't have an impact, take for example basketball and Halo. Basketball is balance, what makes it imbalanced are the players in the game. Players are solely what impact this game.

In Halo equal starts exist, the game has imbalanced tools such as power weapons, but having an ally that can't aim every game would lose you a significant amount of games, that why the matchmaking focuses on having you play in a tight window of players and hard caps you. Players that abuse the system or throw games are immediately punished since 343 does not need their money anymore, unlike Riot.

ChargeItDownMidApr 11, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Wait so banning those players wouldn't help? Oh.. You are very insightful.

So please tell me, how the META effects a master vs my P1 ally. Or perhaps having the MMR of my team average at P2 while theirs at D4? Is the META to take on lower ranked allies?

Changing gears to a more serious tone. I don't think you are so disillusioned that you honestly believe that the coin flip of having better or worst allies is not a factor. I just saw a fed D1 MID lose to a bunch of golds because his allies were just worse, that has nothing to do with the meta rather how trash those players are. You can say "well that's a unique circumstance", but I'd only agree if it wasn't the average game to have some degenerate ally lose the game for you and the "META" is can I carry this guy or not.

Your viewpoint is optimistic, but naive these players exist, and the matchmaking is not optimal. If you think that players still don't have an impact, take for example basketball and Halo. Basketball is balance, what makes it imbalanced are the players in the game. Players are solely what impact this game.

In Halo equal starts exist, the game has imbalanced tools such as power weapons, but having an ally that can't aim every game would lose you a significant amount of games, that why the matchmaking focuses on having you play in a tight window of players and hard caps you. Players that abuse the system or throw games are immediately punished since 343 does not need their money anymore, unlike Riot.

Riot has been trying to ban those players for 9 seasons now, look where it has gotten us. If you have some suggestions on how riot can handle their bans, you should go to the player behavior board.

More importantly, however, you have to realize that better matchmaking isn't going to ban players. Better matchmaking isn't going to fix the fact that we are in a coinflip meta. Better matchmaking isn't going to change the fact that a d1 player can't carry a bunch of gold players because the meta does not reward solo carry players. As long as we waste time talking about matchmaking instead of more important issues such as trolls, leavers, game balance, game meta, etc. the game will never improve. Matchmaking is not the problem and changing it will not make any of league's problems go away.

Instead of wasting time on matchmaking, why not work on a way to ban more trolls from ranked? Or balance the game better? Or change the meta so skill actually dictates the results of the game?

Also, the mmr of your team is not going to be 2 tiers below the other team unless you are queuing as 5. If any website is telling you otherwise, that website is wrong. https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752954-Matchmaking-Guide

In a perfect match, ten individuals with identical MMRs queue at the same time, each having selected a unique position that they’re well-suited for. That situation is incredibly rare depending on who is queueing at the time, so sometimes teams can have very slight skill differences (on average, no more than 4-5 MMR).

AIQApr 11, 20192 votes

Just to reel you into the point make sure we are on the same page. You said : "games are uneven because the game snowballs out of control. If you want to fix the game, you need to fix the snowballing."

As if this is the only factor I am showing you a variety of factors that determine if you will win or lose a game. AFK/DC are another example of that.

Better matchmaking isn't going to fix the fact that we are in a coin flip meta.

The "coin flip" is determined by the players you have? Better matchmaking is the only way to solve this, having perfect matches every game makes it to where players are no longer a factor as they are all equaled skilled. This is of course impossible, but you can get a lot closer than league is.

As far as banning goes, I did try, I've come to realize that Riot doesn't care nor listen. They will proceed with their own agenda.

I understand that games with wonky match making to that extent is rare, but they exist.

ChargeItDownMidApr 11, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Just to reel you into the point make sure we are on the same page. You said : "games are uneven because the game snowballs out of control. If you want to fix the game, you need to fix the snowballing."

As if this is the only factor I am showing you a variety of factors that determine if you will win or lose a game. AFK/DC are another example of that.

Okay, that is fair. I should have said it is one of the main reasons, not that it was the only reason. I will edit my earlier post to clarify this point. Regardless, the point is that matchmaking was not causing the issues, it was external factors.

The "coin flip" is determined by the players you have? Better matchmaking is the only way to solve this, having perfect matches every game makes it to where players are no longer a factor as they are all equaled skilled. This is of course impossible, but you can get a lot closer than league is.

The player factors you are refering to are due to variability in each player's play from one game to another and cannot be improved by matchmaking. Matchmaking can only look at a player's average skill. However, no player plays every game exactly the same, they will have some games where they are playing slightly below their average skill level and some games where they are slightly above. When the game is in a hypersnowball meta like it is now, those small variations causes games to snowball out of control and feel like a coinflip. These coinflip games are a result of the meta and how it interacts with players, not of matchmaking.

As far as banning goes, I did try, I've come to realize that Riot doesn't care nor listen. They will proceed with their own agenda.

I understand that games with wonky match making to that extent is rare, but they exist.

These games exist due to extrinsic factors to matchmaking and will never be improved by chaning matchmaking, They can only be fixed by addressing the other problems with league.

AIQApr 11, 20191 votes

A hard cut off could easily fix outliers If I'm G2/G3 I can only play in gold I have a 0% chance of playing in Silver or Plat.

It's "possible" rock paper scissor is perfectly balanced for players and game play. Of course league has many more factors so all the can do is get closer. On a huge unrealistic technicality they can perfectly balance both matchmaking and the game.

I'm going to be fair too, balance has more weight than all the other factors I've stated. Balancing their game needs to happen there is no question, but honestly Riot jut needs to do all of the above.

The OP is just attack another factor that contributes to poor experience, you are both right.

G0dEmperorTrumpMay 12, 20192 votes

Because that's what they want they WANT people to stay hard stuck and frustrated, to get banned for "toxicity" and buy RP. Or why would they punish dodging so hard?

Billy TillyOct 12, 20192 votes

After playing this game for about 8 years now and not criticizing it I have come to the conclusion that yes. The matchmaking system isn't working. And I will explain partly why this is happening (based off my perception and experience)

First. If you have an older account (5+ years) where you first begun your journey. It means that you started out being unconsciously unskilled. You didn't have map awareness, know how to freeze lanes or do any of the fun stuff that comes with being an experienced player. That's normal and it's how each person gets better until they unconsciously learn to orb and do the other essentials.

Tldr; Older accounts are playing in matches with severely under skilled players. Forcing them to carry the game in roles they may not necessarily enjoy. Newer accounts are surrounded by smurfs who have unrealistic expectations of new players.

Let me explain. So now you're an experienced player. You've played LOL for years and want to play a role you enjoy. It's a laid back weekend and you select ranked feeling like you can provide a lot in the challenge. The enemy selects Tristanna as an ADC. You decide you like the utility Poppy provides and although it's not the normal formula you select her as a support , thinking her W would be a good counter to your opposing Tristanna's leap. It's 10 minutes into the game and each of your lanes are losing, your ADC is a bit slow on engagements and doesn't exchange as good as they could be (They are in Iron 3 after all) but that's okay. Things can change.

Suddenly your adc turns on you. The dunning Kruger effect kicks in and although you provide great utility and stuns - they are affront - "it's because you picked poppy" that your team mate perceives the loss.

**You're playing a ranked game and you're level 256. The game is nearing it's end with your team on 9 kills and there's on 35. but there's too much of a difference in CS and levels. The team never had any map pressure and a lot of idle time was wasted. They will not surrender. **

You now create a new account. Going through the bot levels you play several games until you start playing against other players. They're smurfs. They have perfect CS, map awareness and character experience. You're only level 7 and playing a normal game but the players on your team - and your enemies are already playing a much more fast paced and fulfilling game. The obvious drawback is GENUINELY new players are getting flamed by older players for. You guessed it. Being new.

So this is all happening on an OCE server and it has been my experience and my friends experience as we attempt to climb through silver on 8 year old accounts. It's horrendous and severaly unbalanced. The only form of progression rests in forcing you to carry the entire team with unbalanced champions and even then all the work is on you. That's not a team game and it's not fun. It's a very serious issue and it seems like it's a blind spot that riot have been missing for years.