Teemo's passive

sobi999·Feb 18, 2017·1 votes·880 views

After testing various and lots of builds on teemo i realized that his passive (AS ) loses its purpose mid-late game. With 3 on-hit effect items wit AS on them teemo can max his AS. That means that now any AS boost from his passive is worthless. The reason his passive gives him AS is because he has to stand still and wait for the opponent unlike other stealth assassins. Teemo is bound to get AS in his kit somewhere in any build i presume and i can assure you that other than full AP build the on-hit build will never fully use the 80% AS or even at all. Please try changing it to something better as you think best. I am sure i will get downvoted because well its related to teemo but i don't think this champ is broken or anything just annoying af. He doesn't carry games (not saying he can't do) or snowball out of control and is in a pretty balanced state or even UP i believe. Any thoughts?

18 Comments

SaltyKrackaFeb 18, 20171 votes

His passive enables hilarious cheese earlygame.

He doesn't need buffs.

sobi999Feb 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

His passive enables hilarious cheese earlygame.

He doesn't need buffs.

How much teemo do you play? I don't see him using his passive in lane often and AS compliments with his on-hit build that doesn't happen until mid-late game. In lane you can get a free auto with his passive but that requires you to stand still and wait for opportunity. Sometimes it can cost you CS just for a free 1-2AA. Also nowhere did i mention a "buff". It is to remove his AS and change it to something else so that it's useful at any point and time in the game. That's more like balancing. On the other hand it promotes his on-hit build so he doesn't go full AP since 80% AS is alot and AP build can burst you fast with just Q and 2AA + TL proc and take half of your health with mushrooms. Next patch maybe oracles won't be able to disable his traps and then watch how many teemo's you'll see.

SaltyKrackaFeb 18, 20171 votes

Yeah, they're buffing him next patch, and they're going to have cause to regret it too.

Regardless, his passive enables earlygame cheese by allowing him to wait where the enemy wave will be and letting him chunk the enemy with the AS it gives from ambush. That's the thing, you see. The AS it gives is not a DPS tool. It's an earlygame burst tool.

sobi999Feb 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, they're buffing him next patch, and they're going to have cause to regret it too.

Regardless, his passive enables earlygame cheese by allowing him to wait where the enemy wave will be and letting him chunk the enemy with the AS it gives from ambush. That's the thing, you see. The AS it gives is not a DPS tool. It's an earlygame burst tool.

Trust me, no teemo can burst you down early game with his passive. I have played and watched pro's play him 100's of games and have not seen the passive give him enough AS to burst. It's only when he gets some AS items that his passive starts to shine but that is before he maxes his AS then the passive gets useless. In lane you're always csing and there are but few times when the enemy is out of your sight and you can stealth (top teemo i am talking about ) and this is when you can surprise. Still nowhere near from burst and i still say its more like 1-2 AA extra. Top laners can take multiple AA's as well. Jungle teemo can benefit from this passive though but jungle teemo preferred build is On-hit + AS build to clear jungle faster and that leaves us back to the same problem of maxing AS with 3 items. ADC teemo usually also goes AS build but many i have seen go full AP.

BeatzBoyFTWFeb 18, 20173 votes

He's not Twitch. His passive is meant for ambushing incoming enemies, not to abuse his Attack Speed freely while in the middle of combat. His passive is also a good way of juking enemies in brushes since it doesn't break when he moves around in it.

sobi999Feb 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

He's not Twitch. His passive is meant for ambushing incoming enemies, not to abuse his Attack Speed freely while in the middle of combat. His passive is also a good way of juking enemies in brushes since it doesn't break when he moves around in it.

I think they took this out. When he comes out of stealth his AS increases for 3 secs. Before however, In the bush he constantly had AS boost even even when he came out of stealth for longer than 3 sec. They changed this i believe. Lastly what i am trying to say is that his passive AS is useless with on-hit build which maxes your base AS with 3 items only and that just promotes AP build route for his passive to be useful mid-late game. It's not that his passive is useless, it's the fact that you cannot go AS build for it to be useful. Unless you think everyone should go full AP build.

BeatzBoyFTWFeb 18, 20172 votes

He only gains his bonus Attack Speed when he breaks his stealth, not 3 seconds after he started stealthing. There's nothing "changed" at all.

sobi999Feb 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

He only gains his bonus Attack Speed when he breaks his stealth, not 3 seconds after he started stealthing. There's nothing "changed" at all.

Mb, you misunderstood. He gains the AS when he breaks out of stealth and that AS boost stays for 3 secs. Before if you broke out of stealth in the bush you will get the AS boost as long as you stay in the bush and AA.

BeatzBoyFTWFeb 18, 20171 votes

Mb, you misunderstood. He gains the AS when he breaks out of stealth and that AS boost stays for 3 secs.

Yes, this is intended.

Before if you broke out of stealth in the bush you will get the AS boost as long as you stay in the bush and AA.

Not how it works doe. If he starts attacking in the bush, the Bonus Attack Speed will still go on for 3 seconds. I've already checked it in Practice Tool if it's a bug, and it never appeared.

sobi999Feb 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yes, this is intended.

Not how it works doe. If he starts attacking in the bush, the Bonus Attack Speed will still go on for 3 seconds. I've already checked it in Practice Tool if it's a bug, and it never appeared.

Yh he gets AS in bush for 3 secs after he breaks out of stealth. The bug that was removed i saw it in the patch myself so i can't have been mistaken. It was that in bush after he breaks stealth by AA inside bush ( as long as he stays in the bush) he kept getting the AS boost even after 3 secs had been past. This was taken out in one of the patches since it really is a bug.

CrettFeb 18, 20171 votes

i feel like teemo shouldnt get any more AS than Nashor's

sobi999Feb 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

i feel like teemo shouldnt get any more AS than Nashor's

Yh i agree but that's for full AP teemo. With oracles around, you don't benefit so much with that build as most of the damage is from your mushrooms. Tbh right now on-hit teemo is better for the team as a whole. Every teemo who still builds AP probably doesn't play him often because he/she would have realized this by now.

SirLapseFeb 18, 20171 votes

Teemo's passive is perfectly fine. I've used it to cheese ADCs all throughout 2017 and it doesn't really matter what stage of the game it's used. You use it where the opponent doesn't expect you and completely obliterate them, giving you more than enough advantage. His early is super strong vs. melees so he doesn't need buffs. Versatile builds that are completely non-restrictive if you understand how to play in that specific way, honestly in a much better position than Gnar who arguably did his job better a few seasons ago.

@Salty, it is a dps tool because it boosts attack speed, practically the embodiment of dps. Gunblade is burst, his passive is DPS.

sobi999Feb 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Teemo's passive is perfectly fine. I've used it to cheese ADCs all throughout 2017 and it doesn't really matter what stage of the game it's used. You use it where the opponent doesn't expect you and completely obliterate them, giving you more than enough advantage. His early is super strong vs. melees so he doesn't need buffs. Versatile builds that are completely non-restrictive if you understand how to play in that specific way, honestly in a much better position than Gnar who arguably did his job better a few seasons ago.

@Salty, it is a dps tool because it boosts attack speed, practically the embodiment of dps. Gunblade is burst, his passive is DPS.

I agree with AS he can cheese meele champs or even adc early game with his passive. This is also what makes him annoying in lane and what most people complain about him but here i am trying to promote a change for him that is less toxic and people say i am asking for a buff. I even suggested before to give him AD scaling alongside his AP scaling in his kit so that hybrid builds are more viable for him. That way full AP builds will be less go-to option and people won't have to worry about next patch oracles not disabling his traps.

The issue is that teemo's shrooms can be really cancerous once he gets sufficient amount of AP and since there was no counter to them, oracles were made not just to reveal them but disable them aswell. What did that do? It just made him useless and i have seen many teemo main stop playing him afterwards when they couldn't climb with him. Hell i have seen people moan about playing teemo because they believe all teemo's feed. The fact of the matter is that shrooms are part of his identity and balancing them is challenging. So why not promote another build where his shrooms are less cancerous or less likely to be abused? That way oracles won't be a huge counter to teemo and vice versa. Nonetheless people don't see this while on the other hand i main this champ and don't want him to be cancerous and yet be viable at the very least.

SirLapseFeb 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I agree with AS he can cheese meele champs or even adc early game with his passive. This is also what makes him annoying in lane and what most people complain about him but here i am trying to promote a change for him that is less toxic and people say i am asking for a buff. I even suggested before to give him AD scaling alongside his AP scaling in his kit so that hybrid builds are more viable for him. That way full AP builds will be less go-to option and people won't have to worry about next patch oracles not disabling his traps.

The issue is that teemo's shrooms can be really cancerous once he gets sufficient amount of AP and since there was no counter to them, oracles were made not just to reveal them but disable them aswell. What did that do? It just made him useless and i have seen many teemo main stop playing him afterwards when they couldn't climb with him. Hell i have seen people moan about playing teemo because they believe all teemo's feed. The fact of the matter is that shrooms are part of his identity and balancing them is challenging. So why not promote another build where his shrooms are less cancerous or less likely to be abused? That way oracles won't be a huge counter to teemo and vice versa. Nonetheless people don't see this while on the other hand i main this champ and don't want him to be cancerous and yet be viable at the very least.

You shouldn't be paying attention to bad players, especially not for balance purposes. Plenty of one tricks have climbed with ridiculous Teemo builds like tank Teemo, and I recently have been smashing my opponents due to taking advantage of the easy early game a lot of matchups provide. The Oracle's issue was more about the tiny timeframe you have to activate your shrooms mid-teamfight, since even GP barrels need to be focused on. People in high elo just abuse that part about Teemo, and in lower elo nobody spams Oracle's nearly enough for it to matter.

Extra AD scaling? You know Teemo builds Frozen Mallet and Gunblade which both give gigantic power spikes based on matchup for him already yes? That's practically a buff unless it's completely irrelevant because of it being Shyvana-tier scaling. He's already good at scaling as a hybrid.

You should be taking pride that your champion is unique and can do things that others can't. Let them call your champion toxic or cancer. Teemo loves it when they rage.

sobi999Feb 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You shouldn't be paying attention to bad players, especially not for balance purposes. Plenty of one tricks have climbed with ridiculous Teemo builds like tank Teemo, and I recently have been smashing my opponents due to taking advantage of the easy early game a lot of matchups provide. The Oracle's issue was more about the tiny timeframe you have to activate your shrooms mid-teamfight, since even GP barrels need to be focused on. People in high elo just abuse that part about Teemo, and in lower elo nobody spams Oracle's nearly enough for it to matter.

Extra AD scaling? You know Teemo builds Frozen Mallet and Gunblade which both give gigantic power spikes based on matchup for him already yes? That's practically a buff unless it's completely irrelevant because of it being Shyvana-tier scaling. He's already good at scaling as a hybrid.

You should be taking pride that your champion is unique and can do things that others can't. Let them call your champion toxic or cancer. Teemo loves it when they rage.

Yh there are still one trick ponies as i have seen them myself. Oracles are used 99% of matches in low elos as well. When you chuck a mushroom in team fight, the supp uses the oracle immediately or when a jungler ganks or dives on you. It's just not used as efficiently as it's used in higher elo's though. Also the AD scaling part i meant was that his AP scaling is to be reduced to compensate for it but i forgot to mention that. Mallet doesn't give him a huge power spike but what it does is, enables him to kite meele champs to death especially those with no gap closers. That 30 AD doesn't really make you burst your opponents and it costs alot. With mallet your early laning phase is just farm as your stacking HP items only before you get mallet and plus your shrooms wont be doing as much damage with the 30 AD. I know alot about his kit but mechanically i suck with teemo and so i can't really piss anyone off. My positioning is terrible and my dodging is even worse.

I have tried to opine on this matter to make him less cancerous. I am just waiting to see what happens to his traps next patch

SirLapseFeb 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yh there are still one trick ponies as i have seen them myself. Oracles are used 99% of matches in low elos as well. When you chuck a mushroom in team fight, the supp uses the oracle immediately or when a jungler ganks or dives on you. It's just not used as efficiently as it's used in higher elo's though. Also the AD scaling part i meant was that his AP scaling is to be reduced to compensate for it but i forgot to mention that. Mallet doesn't give him a huge power spike but what it does is, enables him to kite meele champs to death especially those with no gap closers. That 30 AD doesn't really make you burst your opponents and it costs alot. With mallet your early laning phase is just farm as your stacking HP items only before you get mallet and plus your shrooms wont be doing as much damage with the 30 AD. I know alot about his kit but mechanically i suck with teemo and so i can't really piss anyone off. My positioning is terrible and my dodging is even worse.

I have tried to opine on this matter to make him less cancerous. I am just waiting to see what happens to his traps next patch

You don't seem to play ranked but I'll just inform you that a power spike is when your character gains a huge advantage. When Teemo can basically chase someone down and prevent aggression because he's built so much HP (and usually is paired with Corrupting Potion), that is a gigantic power spike. You're also misunderstanding Teemo's early game--you do not farm unless the matchup forces you to. You'll still be winning trades vs. melees for days and the Mallet components won't stop that.

Nerfing Teemo's AP scaling when he's not in an overpowered spot makes no sense either just for some AD scaling. That just makes Doran's Ring start less viable and screws with matchups Teemo is not the best in, like vs. Vlad or Kennen. His base AD is enough most cases.

If you want to improve then study how to improve and don't worry about silly details like Teemo's current state until you've reached a point where you are "skilled" or at least average with Teemo. There are plenty of champions that are more volatile in balancing like Rengar, Ryze and Leblanc.

sobi999Feb 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You don't seem to play ranked but I'll just inform you that a power spike is when your character gains a huge advantage. When Teemo can basically chase someone down and prevent aggression because he's built so much HP (and usually is paired with Corrupting Potion), that is a gigantic power spike. You're also misunderstanding Teemo's early game--you do not farm unless the matchup forces you to. You'll still be winning trades vs. melees for days and the Mallet components won't stop that.

Nerfing Teemo's AP scaling when he's not in an overpowered spot makes no sense either just for some AD scaling. That just makes Doran's Ring start less viable and screws with matchups Teemo is not the best in, like vs. Vlad or Kennen. His base AD is enough most cases.

If you want to improve then study how to improve and don't worry about silly details like Teemo's current state until you've reached a point where you are "skilled" or at least average with Teemo. There are plenty of champions that are more volatile in balancing like Rengar, Ryze and Leblanc.

I don'y play ranked but in draft i often get paired against gold/plat and even diamond. I even have plat friends. I can direct you to teemo players with over 1kk mastery points who have stopped playing him and even made an informative thread on why he is not so viable right now especially after oracles. I have studied teemo alot and while i may suck at his mechanics i do know that harassing in lane is his biggest strength especially early game and with mallet it gets tedious for most melee champs. If that is powerspike then i agree. i watched many games of pro's playing with teemo and studied different build thus my knowleged has improved slowly over time but my mechanics still suck. Overall my knowledge of the game sucks also so i can't use any champ as efficiently as old players. Forcing him to go hybrid is the purpose since full AP is cancerous in every way even in lane where your E harass is insane or your mushrooms outside lane. I don't think that is what you want to understand. It was nice talking to you :)