Can Caitlyn not trap you under your own turret?

sobi999·Jun 14, 2017·73 votes·2,499 views

Which other champ can restrict your movement so badly under your own turret that you cannot even farm? Trapping is one thing but then getting those head shots from that distance and the damage is another. Please riot, make your games less cancerous! I see cait being banned 8/10 games for a damn reason! Before you guys say get gud, i am talking about her traps restricting the opponents gameplay not that she is overpowered.

If maybe the minions triggered her trap then everything will be good. What do you guys think?

80 Comments

SilverjustJun 14, 201720 votes

I would nerf her trap-range, so when she wants to trap you, you can punish her for it

RookPusherJun 14, 201717 votes

the turrets should target her traps.

crippler38Jun 15, 20171 votes

No because that would buff her ability to push by doing what shaco does and increasing the lifetime if your minion wave by x amount of shots, only multiplied by her having charges.

StaliniumJun 15, 20171 votes

Malzahar does this insanely effectively right now... W right before minions go under turret (turret takes 4 more shots to clear wave), cast Q twice and you get another 4 voidlings (another 4 tower shots to clear wave)

nm1010Jun 15, 20172 votes

...He has 3 minions at most

RookPusherJun 15, 20172 votes

Wouldn't that make her have to choose? If she wants to tank tower hits with the traps, she clears her own field (she has a limited amount, right?)

crippler38Jun 15, 20171 votes

I personally don't want that. I hater her but I don't want to let her push down towers harder just because she can poke.

Not that our opinions on the matter matter, that's just how I think.

QuortJun 15, 20171 votes

I do that with Zyra. It's fun.

crippler38Jun 15, 20172 votes

yeah I love doing it with shaco, cait shouldn't get to join the club.

Chembaron YamadaJun 14, 201716 votes

Here we go again.

Her traps are a sieging tool. The situation that she is putting them under the tower to zone you is exactly what she is supposed to do with them. So every suggestion like "she shouldn't be able to put them under a tower", "the tower should attack the traps", "minions should trigger her traps" and so on are directly against the whole purpose of the skill, therefore it is unlikely that a change like that is going to happen.

Since OP compared her traps to other traps like Teemo shrooms: You have to keep in mind what the intention of the skill is. Just because they are all traps doesn't mean they all have the same purpose.

Teemo Shroom: Serves as a warning system, wave clear, for preparing ambushes. Since they get used for waveclear, they have to trigger on minions to fulfill that purpose. Notice how sieging is not their intention, therefore they get revealed under towers.

Jhin Lotus: Same like Teemo, serves as warning system, wave clear and for ambushes. I don't think I have to explain this again.

Caitlyn Cupcakes: Their purpose is sieging and being a situational warning system. Notice how you can't use them effectively for ambushes. Why? Because they are visible the whole time. They don't go in stealth like other traps. You don't use them for waveclear, therefore they don't need to trigger on minions. And that would be counter productive for their purpose: being a zoning and sieging tool.

Riot wants Caitlyn to focus around her traps in gameplay. They are working as intended. If Caitlyn is too strong, there are other levers they can adjust her with. But the general gameplay of her traps will most likely stay.

JustSaiyan69Jun 15, 20174 votes

Yeah but is it fun to ever play against? Do you think it's fair you lose a quarter of your health stepping on one of those little fuckers? All Caitlyn has to do is push then put traps under your turret and your zoned for the rest of the laning phase. Her goal is to zone, not completely deny you farm every second she's in lane. Maybe if it wasn't so easy I'd feel it was justified but it takes no brain power.

ShadowParkerJun 15, 20175 votes

A lot of champion strengths aren't "fun" to play against. Learn to play against them and you'll be fine, she pays for it in other aspects of her kit.

JustSaiyan69Jun 15, 20173 votes

If by play against you mean give up lane then yeah I guess that's one way to deal with it. There's no counter to this strategy at all unless you get jg ganking constantly and I think that's pretty bullshit. It would be acceptable if she could only do this to people she counters, like how a Quinn can zone a Garen because she specifically counters him. But no, Caitlyn can do this to any adc without any repurcussions what so ever.

KrittyJun 15, 20174 votes

{quoted}

If by play against you mean give up lane then yeah I guess that's one way to deal with it. There's no counter to this strategy at all unless you get jg ganking constantly and I think that's pretty bullshit. It would be acceptable if she could only do this to people she counters, like how a Quinn can zone a Garen because she specifically counters him. But no, Caitlyn can do this to any adc without any repurcussions what so ever.

That's actually the thing to do - if she's pushing you under turret constantly, your jungler should be considering her as a juicy target for an easy gank. If your jungler is allowing you to just get pushed under turret with no help, they're part of the reason you're struggling so much.

Succubús GFJun 15, 201712 votes

Traps under turret is oppressive and unnecessary or should last half as long if under turret. Literally Azir did the same thing with zoning you off by putting soldiers under your turret and now look what they did. Defend the matron of bullies more plox

crippler38Jun 15, 20175 votes

Azir soldiers always decayed under turrets faster though.

HalcyonDwellerJun 15, 20175 votes

That's because a zoning tool that has no counterplay is oppressive and Riot couldn't put it in the game. It's only on Caitlyn because that was part of her original design, and it wasn't originally a problem. It wasn't oppressive until Riot added the reworked headshot interaction with the trap.

MhihnjJun 15, 20173 votes

How about nerfing her trap range early(levels 1-2) then she will have to force you out of lane before placing traps under tower.

TerchioJun 15, 20172 votes

Honestly, her traps are kinda bad early already. She only gets 3, they have much higher bases later, and they have a whopping 45 second cooldown, dropping down to a mere 10 at max. They get really good real fast, though, needing only 20 seconds by level 5 (assuming first skill maxed), maxing at 4 traps, and doing fair damage already. 20 seconds is pretty crazy for a recharge skill that nobody wants to proc, because it means you'll lose a horrible trade.

I'd be down for a more steady progression on cooldown, though. Even if the level 3 skill was split between the min and max of 10 and 45 (27.5), that's still a lot of deserved nerf. There's no reason she should be collecting those so quick when she is able to collect while traps are already down, and even put some in safe-haven spots on her side of the lane as near-certain obstacles on any ganks.

AhristocatsJun 15, 20172 votes

you make a point but people need to do something against this sieging tool

you literally cannot do anything against her traps, not even wait they expire as they last 90 sec and cost 20 mana

YFisfabulousBRUHJun 16, 20171 votes

I play cait and i agree her traps should cost more late in terms of mana and cooldowns

OriyokiJun 15, 20172 votes

She already out ranges and out damages most marksmen during early and mid game. Then there's how she just forces you to abandon your tower with the traps.

BakedLotionJun 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Here we go again.

Her traps are a sieging tool. The situation that she is putting them under the tower to zone you is exactly what she is supposed to do with them. So every suggestion like "she shouldn't be able to put them under a tower", "the tower should attack the traps", "minions should trigger her traps" and so on are directly against the whole purpose of the skill, therefore it is unlikely that a change like that is going to happen.

Since OP compared her traps to other traps like Teemo shrooms: You have to keep in mind what the intention of the skill is. Just because they are all traps doesn't mean they all have the same purpose.

Teemo Shroom: Serves as a warning system, wave clear, for preparing ambushes. Since they get used for waveclear, they have to trigger on minions to fulfill that purpose. Notice how sieging is not their intention, therefore they get revealed under towers.

Jhin Lotus: Same like Teemo, serves as warning system, wave clear and for ambushes. I don't think I have to explain this again.

Caitlyn Cupcakes: Their purpose is sieging and being a situational warning system. Notice how you can't use them effectively for ambushes. Why? Because they are visible the whole time. They don't go in stealth like other traps. You don't use them for waveclear, therefore they don't need to trigger on minions. And that would be counter productive for their purpose: being a zoning and sieging tool.

Riot wants Caitlyn to focus around her traps in gameplay. They are working as intended. If Caitlyn is too strong, there are other levers they can adjust her with. But the general gameplay of her traps will most likely stay.

If they're there because caitlyn sieges with them, then why do azir soldiers disappear quicker under enemy turrets?

Azir uses his soldiers to zone and siege also.

She already zones you with her insane range. She doesn't need to completely deny you any chance to farm lmfao.

Chembaron YamadaJun 16, 20171 votes

There is a huge difference between Caitlyns traps, which just zone you for a tiny spot each, and Azirs soldiers, which zone you with a pretty big area around them.
Azir was designed with basically everything in a kit you could ask for.

He had mobility equal to divers, he had burst, he had the zoning of a control mage, he had the dps of a marksman. His selfpeel and insec potential with ult is incredible (there is a reason that the shurima shuffle is consider a big LCS play). All of his damage is AoE by design, which made him incredibly strong in team fights.

There was a time Azir was even able to use his soldier summoning directly on a tower, dealing damage to it and making him even better at sieging, because he could zone and deal bonus damage to the tower.

And that's exactly why my friend. Azir was strong at literally everything. They had to shove off some power from him and that is the reason they are going to rework him. That champion needs clearly defined strengths and weaknesses.

And that actually applies to Caitlyn and they even put the finger on it with the last nerfs: Caitlyn is centered around her trap and range, making her great at sieging. But she pays for it with team fighting potential. Her damage against groups of enemies is limited, especially after the removal of the Ruunans interaction.

MaddéyJun 14, 20174 votes

This has been brought up so many times up to this point, and what Riot went with was removing her hurricane interaction, soo... Yeah, I think they dont want any of her trap elements gone.

420 gramsJun 14, 20173 votes

You mean to tell me removing her head shot synergy with one specific item wasn't enough to balance her from being the go-to adc in any season or any pro game?

General Esdeath Jun 14, 20173 votes

Remember when Azir could do that? Look what happened to him. Why is Cait allowed to put traps that you can't destroy, have to take a headshot to remove, and can't be seen if you're blue side and she hides it under tower?

OyddAWqJ5rJun 15, 20173 votes

Could do what? His soldiers have always decayed way faster under turret.

General Esdeath Jun 15, 20171 votes

That timer didn't matter when someone would summoned max soldiers then Q auto you under turret for half your HP, and back when he could cast W on turrets to deal a chunk of damage to them

OyddAWqJ5rJun 16, 20171 votes

Your original post still doesn't make sense. Nothing changed about his champion pressure under turrets, only his turret sieging power with the removal of W summons hurting turret. The Q nerfs had nothing to do with his turret pressure but rather his play pattern in general since they wanted him to be DPS but he was doing so much burst that Nashors-which was supposed to be his go-to item-was being overlooked because he didn't need it to blow up targets.

His tower pressure still remains the same with a much shorter cd on W and more damage on autos, meaning he actually controls space under turret better than before while also being unable to W turrets means he'll be putting up more soldiers under turret more too.

General Esdeath Jun 16, 20171 votes

No they shifted his power so he couldn't do it for free.

OyddAWqJ5rJun 23, 20171 votes

Do what for free? Nothing changed.

Sorry btw been gone for a week

Tobias BracknerJun 14, 20173 votes

[deleted]

HalcyonDwellerJun 15, 20172 votes

Are you aware that only assholes say git good?

Come back when you have an actual counterargument to the post.

Tobias BracknerJun 16, 20174 votes

My counterargument has as much content as the initial argument.

Once again I am done with you.

HalcyonDwellerJun 16, 20171 votes

The initial argument used reasons and evidence.

All you did was insinuate that the OP sucked, and then claimed that the traps are fine without backing it up with any evidence or reasoning.

Tobias BracknerJun 16, 20171 votes

The initial argument had half-baked reasoning and no evidence it pretty much talked about her potential outplay power.

So yeah, if this is something that happens enough for him to complain about the only solution is for him to get better at the game.

Now I've wasted enough words on you, this conversation is done.

ThilmerJun 15, 20173 votes

Anyone can explain me why Caitlyn traps are better tan Jhin's traps or Teemo mushrooms, even when Teemo's mushrooms are a damn ultimate? It sounds unfair to me.

DuskDaUmbreonJun 15, 20174 votes

Cait's traps are always visible and are only CC unto themselves. Evert other trap does damage. Teemo's traps can take out 60% of your health at 16.

MarshbouyJun 15, 20174 votes

Teemo's traps can take out 60% of your health at 16.

can confirm. Have killed many people with just two well placed teemo shrooms.

MarshbouyJun 15, 20172 votes

Anyone can explain me why Caitlyn traps are better tan Jhin's traps or Teemo mushrooms, even when Teemo's mushrooms are a damn ultimate? It sounds unfair to me.

because Caitlin's ult and Q are incredibly underwhelming.

KirotheImmortalJun 15, 20171 votes

This. Ive seen some good reasons but this is probably the best. Her ult is so situation it makes her traps look like they are always usefull

Weasel KenseiJun 15, 20173 votes

I made a thread about this a long time ago about how cait is the only champion that can place too much influence into your turret zone.

No other champion can have their (insert thing here) inside your turret range. Caits traps going under your turret was fine before her rework when they had a cooldown, but with the ammo system they get dropped in quick succesion and all of a sudden you cant get out from under your turret without her poking the shit out of you or killing you.

Now I have spent a lot of time thinking about this. Iv come to the conclusion that it may be ok if the turret didnt destroy her traps. What I think would be a good idea is if the turret targeted her trap (low priority, basiclly when nothing else is around) it "knocked the trap out of turret range."

DuskDaUmbreonJun 15, 20173 votes

Anivia 's R, Gangplank 's R/W, Tristana 's explosion...

Weasel KenseiJun 15, 20171 votes

Are you suggesting that abilities can be cast into the range of a turret are the same thing? That seemss to pretty much be the point your making while either completely missing my obvious point or trying to miss it on purpose as bait.

Anivias R? Fucking really? Thats about as legit a counter point as "Swain can ult under your turret hurr derp derp."

Many champs have pets, traps, or objects they can place and caits traps are the only "thing" not a spell that has its aoe inside turret range for some period, that get to sit under your turret like it belongs there somehow.

But if Caits traps cost as much mana as Anivias R, or happened as much as GPs R, or needed the time investment of Trist W, then maybe it would be fine, but she gets to invade the turret area for much less mana investment, out of range of turret fire, and much more often than the champs in you shit post.

kz1eJun 15, 20173 votes

her traps are fine, keep crying lmaooo

TerchioJun 15, 20172 votes

Traps need to be made into an actual decision. Right now, you can unload as you wish and still have enough when you may need them again. They really should feel spent like any other skill on cooldown. My vote is something like a 35 second cooldown at max level, but it drops by 5 seconds per trap she needs rebuilt (or 10 seconds plus 5 seconds per trap in storage or on the ground). This would make traps regenerate faster on actual use, but put a heavy toll on regeneration for the traps that are used just to zone enemies into other traps.

AccountaBilabudyJun 15, 20171 votes

Increase mana cost on each trap to 100 mana. Problem solved.

DuskDaUmbreonJun 15, 20174 votes

And then suddenly she's useless...

Bronze GOATJun 16, 20171 votes

Caitlyn needs to be more centered around her range than her traps. So many cool things they could of done with her sniping ability, but instead she's limited to some trap spammer.