Why there isn't (and shouldn't be) a Grievous Wounds AD item

Eedat··4 votes·399 views

I've noticed a few threads asking for a AD item with grievous wounds. I would like to address why this is a terrible idea.

AD champions already counter sustain based champs. Sustain based champs are very weak to sustained damage. AD by its very nature is more sustained than AP because it also scales auto attacks. Sustained based champs are good are short trades that they'll most likely lose, then sustaining back up. These champs are extremely weak to heavy all ins and champs that can repeatedly force trades with them.

Lets look at Vladimir for example. Vlad is extremely weak to the vast majority of AD top laners. Tryndamere Riven Rengar MonkeyKing Pantheon Irelia Garen Gangplank Yasuo Hecarim all pretty heavily counter Vlad. Why is this? Because they can continue to force trades with him before he can sustain back up. These champs can continue to follow Vlad after his pool and force all-ins that Vlad will lose. Vlad can't really ever duel any of these champs unless they make a lot of mistakes.

This same logic also applies to DrMundo early game. Mundo gets wrecks by most AD champs just because his early sustain can't keep up with the constant damage

So why do we need an AD grevious wounds item? It would only put the nail in the coffin for pretty much all sustain based champs. AD already counters sustain-based champs without grievous wounds. If we introduced an AD Grievous Wounds item it would be complete overkill and completely uneccessary.

15 Comments

ValyrianBlade2 votes

As an ADC main who's gotten ridiculously fed in games and proceeded to try to 1v1 enemy Vlad's that weren't half as fed only to result in losing / both dying / needing to burn heal to win the fight (depending on if I was 5, 10, or 15 kills ahead) I have to say I disagree...

Champions like Vlad and Swain with constant sustain in their kits on top of good damage are ridiculously strong if there isn't a grievous wounds on them. I don't think there should be any champion that can win a 1v1 against an opponent that has 40% more gold worth of items than them (assuming both are building correctly and the latter is equal level or higher).

Eedat2 votes

I don't think there should be any champion that can win a 1v1 against an opponent that has 40% more gold worth of items than them

I play Vlad a lot and ADCs are hell for him. Champs like MonkeyKing Riven Tryndamere Rengar Irelia are just impossible to duel at equal footing without them making a massive misplay.

If you lost a duel with a Vlad when you were super fed, you did something wrong

ValyrianBlade1 votes

ADCs being Jinx Caitlyn Ashe etc...

Not top lane melee AD scaling champions who are supposed to be strong duelists...

Pretty hard to do something wrong on an ADC in a 1v1 against Vlad. He clicks his abilities on you, you click to auto him. He ults you and pools when you're winning... Most typical result is that you kill him and his ult kills you afterwards...

Typically can't outduel Vlad as an ADC before you either get Bloodthirster or an MR item. Which is kind of silly. If I have IE+PD+berserkers+LW+ a BF Sword and vlad only has his WoTA+boots+Deathcap+NLR, I would expect to be able to win that fight.

To be fair, it's been a while since the games where this happened so I'm not entirely sure how far ahead I was. I just remember thinking I was an ADC as the highest level on the map, most CS, and most kills, saw Vlad alone and went to 1v1 him figuring it'd be free, and ended up burning heal in order to kill him while he killed me too.

Niyumi1 votes

Mundo says hi, and he says he doesn't care about your AD character hitting him.

dunder kill2 votes

except ADCs have always been well known as Mundos weakness?

Niyumi1 votes

Really, explains why today, as Sivir, I had to spend a good 20 seconds throwing AAs at him to even get close to downing him. IE, 'zerker greaves, PD, LW, BORK, and a Vamp Scepter. He just laughed and ignored it. ^^

dunder kill2 votes

Gviing a completely out of context example doesn't prove anything

You don't pick Mundo into AD comps. This has always been a generally accepted fact with him and always will be

stabby himiko1 votes

'Riven heavily counters Vlad' You're funny. I bet you got this information from watching pros smurf and dominate top lane with any random champion regardless of counters because they are challenger or master, or diamond.

stabby himiko1 votes

Not to mention,Make the AD Grievous Wounds item around the price of morelloicon,so people usually only get it after 6,when their sustain is much higher.

Spicy Rice2 votes

Or, they could make it so that it only activates when the enemy is at 25%

dunder kill3 votes

Riven absolutely dumpsters Vlad. At no point can Vlad ever sustain through her DPS or out trade her or escape from her or duel her.

Go ahead and search any source you want. Champion.gg, Lolcounter, any guides from experienced Vlad players. Maybe if you had ever played the matchup you would know instead of speaking of something you know nothing about from bronze 3.

Spicy Rice2 votes

Ok, unless riven is rushing hydra, she has very very littlr hp regen/sustain. Maening ut is very easy to poke her out of lane, especially with someone like vlad, who can use his range to stay safer than most of rivens opponents

Sightless663 votes

His range is too short to keep him safe against her. She can go on him easily, early, and often, and he just can't do enough damage to trade back no matter how many abilities she burns on mobility, and she can punish any small mistakes he makes extremely hard. His poke doesn't matter if she goes all-in on him every single time he tries to Q her. He just can't deal with it.

This is legitimately one of the hardest counters in the game. You have to work to find matchups as one-sided as Riven vs Vlad. You can seriously ask any high-elo top main, look at any website, look at data, and you'll find nothing disagreeing with me. Vlad eats it hard against Riven.

Eedat3 votes

I suggest you play the match up. Riven easily bullies Vlad out of lane, not the other way around. Riven can stick to Vlad and theres not much he can do about it. She far, far out DPSes him and his W doesnt mean anything as Riven has multiple gap closers to stay on him. Everyone also forgets that Vlad's pool cost 20% of his current HP essentially as true damage. This means that if Vlad is at 1/2 HP, his W costs 10% of his max HP as true damage just to use. Riven has always been accepted as a hard counter to Vlad. I have no idea why people are trying to argue against it

Eedat3 votes

No, I've learned it from playing the matchup from both sides multiple times. Riven is a super hard counter to Vlad. Her DPS far exceeds Vlad's ability to sustain and her sticking power makes Vlad's W more or less useless. You can't ever beat her unless Riven makes some serious mistakes. Vlad is stuck to farming as best as he can under tower and hoping he is more useful in team fights later.

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