Seriously though Riot, could you make the game a LITTLE less snowbally?

Anatera·Mar 14, 2018·29 votes·1,244 views

It's getting pretty ridiculous. I'd prefer it if I felt like I had SOME effect on my games. I don't know why you'd take that away. It was the most enjoyable part of league. It strikes me as being incredibly stupid to make personal skill the most irrelevant part of the game.

Considering these days you can snowball off the dumbest things, like the enemy making a mistake, you getting lucky, your team comp, etc. (you know, things that have very little or nothing at all to do with your personal skill), I would've thought it would at least bring up one or two red flags for balance, but I guess not.

26 Comments

AekamiMar 14, 20186 votes

If anything, the game is less snowbally than it used to. Go back to S2-S3 and watch what snowballing means. Not to mention you say that "I'd prefer it if I felt like I had SOME effect on my games", which is partly accomplished by ... snowballing yourself. Nothing prevents you from being the one to snowball. " you can snowball off the dumbest things, like the enemy making a mistake" is ... normal ? Being better than your opponent should give you an edge.

Also you do have impact on your games. The percent of game that cannot be won due to your team is maybe around 20%. But that's it. I got 3 accounts to diamond, each by playing different roles (mid, jungle, top). And guess what ? I still climbed with a 80% winrate up to plat, and then finishing at 65% in diamondV, regardless being wrongly placed in silverIV on one of my accounts. You are the only common factor in your games, if you are not winning, it just means that there are some parts of the game you haven't mastered yet.

So when you say that a great deal of the game "has to do with things that have very little to nothing to do with your personnal skill", I have to disagree strongly. How you react to having your botlane get killed is also part of your "skill".

Many low elo players who talk about their "skill" refer to the way they play in lane and teamfight. And sure, being good at both will get you somewhere around gold elo. But knowing when to roam, when not to trade, how to mentally keep track of the ennemy jungler, how to splipush correctly (and not just push alone and die), how use your positioning in lane to force the ennemy positionning, how to manage the minions waves, etc. are the kind of things that people very often don't take into consideration, because it's a kind of "passive" skill, so to speak. It's not doing a sick flash combo to kill the opponent, it's playing slow and calculated, freezing the wave, denying cs, getting a 30 minions lead on your opponent ... and you're up a kill in gold, except you never killed your opponent, and now you are ahead. But it's not flashy, not epic enough, so people forget about that, or just don't know how to pull it off properly.

Low elo players don't know what they don't know (seems pretty obvious doesn't it ?) which is why there is this "it's just being unlucky" explanation. When in fact you could have changed the way things went, but you just didn't know yet how to.

ExecutionerMar 15, 20181 votes

Its funny, because you are right on all accounts you pointed out.

HyquiemMar 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

If anything, the game is less snowbally than it used to. Go back to S2-S3 and watch what snowballing means. Not to mention you say that "I'd prefer it if I felt like I had SOME effect on my games", which is partly accomplished by ... snowballing yourself. Nothing prevents you from being the one to snowball. " you can snowball off the dumbest things, like the enemy making a mistake" is ... normal ? Being better than your opponent should give you an edge.

Also you do have impact on your games. The percent of game that cannot be won due to your team is maybe around 20%. But that's it. I got 3 accounts to diamond, each by playing different roles (mid, jungle, top). And guess what ? I still climbed with a 80% winrate up to plat, and then finishing at 65% in diamondV, regardless being wrongly placed in silverIV on one of my accounts. You are the only common factor in your games, if you are not winning, it just means that there are some parts of the game you haven't mastered yet.

So when you say that a great deal of the game "has to do with things that have very little to nothing to do with your personnal skill", I have to disagree strongly. How you react to having your botlane get killed is also part of your "skill".

Many low elo players who talk about their "skill" refer to the way they play in lane and teamfight. And sure, being good at both will get you somewhere around gold elo. But knowing when to roam, when not to trade, how to mentally keep track of the ennemy jungler, how to splipush correctly (and not just push alone and die), how use your positioning in lane to force the ennemy positionning, how to manage the minions waves, etc. are the kind of things that people very often don't take into consideration, because it's a kind of "passive" skill, so to speak. It's not doing a sick flash combo to kill the opponent, it's playing slow and calculated, freezing the wave, denying cs, getting a 30 minions lead on your opponent ... and you're up a kill in gold, except you never killed your opponent, and now you are ahead. But it's not flashy, not epic enough, so people forget about that, or just don't know how to pull it off properly.

Low elo players don't know what they don't know (seems pretty obvious doesn't it ?) which is why there is this "it's just being unlucky" explanation. When in fact you could have changed the way things went, but you just didn't know yet how to.

Low elo or the fact they have no way to snowball becuase the enemy support needs to be a hero, roaming into a weak bot lane might seem worth but the teammates don’t want to engage. In my opinion you see all the parts of keeping jungler in mind etc is not thing you would asidely do, bit when the enemy snowballs stupidly hard becuase the laners are constantly making a mistake. There is no point, concluding to, the fact nothing can beat a fed adc because some reason the part of team comps is like, a shade covering eyes of high elo players, where as it the most thing smurfs do is play adc. The part of the enemy adc doing damage is the minimal worry. The worry is how do you do the damage to destroy them before they do it to you. Which is the course of “low elo”. The same thing revolves around the game play on lcs but this point everyone is trusting their team. See the fact of team coms being all that and then your saying keep track of the jungler and trying to get a 30 cs lead when your opponent has a complete lane sustain, is an obligation to the mindset of trying to win the game.

Xion The XIVMar 14, 20184 votes

Our Chinese overlords do not wish for a less snowball. They demand games be faster so computer Cafe's make more money.

Nea104Mar 15, 20184 votes

How many months have passed? And it's just getting worse :/

MarshbouyMar 14, 20183 votes

I agree, but I think a lot of your reasons are a little...bad.

the enemy making a mistake

...

you know, things that have very little or nothing at all to do with your personal skill

This is an interesting contradiction. If you punish an enemies' mistake, than you should get rewarded for that because it means that you are the more skilled player. The size of that reward is what is the issue.

you getting lucky

I just want to know an example of "luck" winning you a game.

Please don't say the drake system. Both teams have an equal chance at going for that objective. ######The buffs lead to bigger leads though, I will give you that.

your team comp

Team comp winning you a game has been a big deal for...ever basically. Having a shit team comp almost always means you win and having a really good team comp gives you a great chance at winning.

AnateraMar 14, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I agree, but I think a lot of your reasons are a little...bad.

...

This is an interesting contradiction. If you punish an enemies' mistake, than you should get rewarded for that because it means that you are the more skilled player. The size of that reward is what is the issue.

I just want to know an example of "luck" winning you a game.

Please don't say the drake system. Both teams have an equal chance at going for that objective. ######The buffs lead to bigger leads though, I will give you that.

Team comp winning you a game has been a big deal for...ever basically. Having a shit team comp almost always means you win and having a really good team comp gives you a great chance at winning.

The enemy making a mistake is different from you forcing the enemy into a particular position. The first requires the enemy to make the mistake, something that is typically not in your control.

As for the team comp thing, you yourself only have control over the pick of one position. Your own. The other four are up to four randoms you've likely never met and whether or not they listen to you is a gamble as well.

MarshbouyMar 14, 20183 votes

But part of being skilled is making as few mistakes as possible.

But the team comp thing has been a part of league forever. It's an integral part of every kind of strategy game. To make team composition less impactful would be to massively change how LoL works as a whole.

AnateraMar 14, 20182 votes

{quoted}

But part of being skilled is making as few mistakes as possible.

But the team comp thing has been a part of league forever. It's an integral part of every kind of strategy game. To make team composition less impactful would be to massively change how LoL works as a whole.

Of course, but no one is immune to making mistakes. If everyone was perfect, then the game would be pretty damn boring. Ultimately, mistakes on the part of your enemy isn't an element that's in your control, in the same way that you taking advantage of their mistake isn't an element in their control.

As for team comp, I'm not advocating that they make team comp not matter at all or not matter much. I entirely welcome small incremental changes.

HyquiemMar 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

But part of being skilled is making as few mistakes as possible.

But the team comp thing has been a part of league forever. It's an integral part of every kind of strategy game. To make team composition less impactful would be to massively change how LoL works as a whole.

Or they could add a way to make some one snowball

Lord of MathMar 14, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I agree, but I think a lot of your reasons are a little...bad.

...

This is an interesting contradiction. If you punish an enemies' mistake, than you should get rewarded for that because it means that you are the more skilled player. The size of that reward is what is the issue.

I just want to know an example of "luck" winning you a game.

Please don't say the drake system. Both teams have an equal chance at going for that objective. ######The buffs lead to bigger leads though, I will give you that.

Team comp winning you a game has been a big deal for...ever basically. Having a shit team comp almost always means you win and having a really good team comp gives you a great chance at winning.

The team with Warwick has a better chance at getting drakes than the team with Amumu

MarshbouyMar 14, 20182 votes

That is 100% true, but my comment still applies. When you set up a team comp, you make trade offs like that.

Amumu can still counteract WW's drake control with good warding and winning lanes for his team so that they can more easily take dragon.

This is unlike something like Klepto, where it has no real counterplay other than "lol don't get hit"

Lord of MathMar 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

That is 100% true, but my comment still applies. When you set up a team comp, you make trade offs like that.

Amumu can still counteract WW's drake control with good warding and winning lanes for his team so that they can more easily take dragon.

This is unlike something like Klepto, where it has no real counterplay other than "lol don't get hit"

Kleptomancy needs an auto attack to proc it, Make them work for that auto rather than not get hit, If you drag them through minions then the minions may very well aggro to them. Then if you have any CC.

3TWarriorMar 15, 20181 votes

luck: zyra plant in the right position, a cooldown coming off at the right time, a skillshot hitbox registering a hit despite a miss because of server latency

a mistake, per se, is being just far enough away from your tower that the jungler can crush you, not being close enough to combat to gain experience, or simply forgetting a bonus effect of an ability (like miss fortune's Q, bard's Q, brand's stun, kalista's bonus W damage, etc)

makkiiMar 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I agree, but I think a lot of your reasons are a little...bad.

...

This is an interesting contradiction. If you punish an enemies' mistake, than you should get rewarded for that because it means that you are the more skilled player. The size of that reward is what is the issue.

I just want to know an example of "luck" winning you a game.

Please don't say the drake system. Both teams have an equal chance at going for that objective. ######The buffs lead to bigger leads though, I will give you that.

Team comp winning you a game has been a big deal for...ever basically. Having a shit team comp almost always means you win and having a really good team comp gives you a great chance at winning.

I mean honestly the drake system should be scrapped

Let’s say you have two teams both equally capable of getting drake but one team excels early and the other late, let’s say because of this it makes it too difficult in either phase to pheasibly contest, now let’s say the first two are oceans and the next two are infernals, the early game team got fucked by rng. The system is bad, it should be a single stacking buff, not multiple.

RezlacMar 15, 20183 votes

The games snowballing like they are just makes playing league so boring. Went on a 10 game winning streak and couldn't bother to queue anymore afterwords. I didn't have any sort of elation of getting such a winning streak because it was just so boring winning so fast. Maybe i'm too good for my elo? I dont know i've only ever aimed for gold 5 to get my ranked rewards but this season i've tried going for more and now i can't be bothered since i'm so monstrously bored with this game.

ŚtrongMentalMar 16, 20181 votes

i'm not even bored of league - i want to play it, very badly - but on every level, the game feels different... games do last to 25-30 minutes but they are BY EVERY account decided by 10 minutes... of the 500 games i've played this season alone, 2 games (seriously... 2) were comeback wins, and 3 games i most certainly SHOULD have lost, 3...

Also: Why in the fuck can a support (0/0/6) take on and win against a 7/2 fed kha... 1v1 with kha's passive up...

This game makes 0 sense to me anymore... like dumb and dumber (quality movie) it doesnt make sense to me... but i laugh at it... much like i do with league

TempName74814Mar 15, 20183 votes

a couple thousand vocal minorities: "MAKE THE GAMES TAKE LESS TIME, I'M SICK OF 45 MINUTE GAMES"

a couple thousand different vocal minorities, a year or so later: "MAKE THE GAMES LAST 45 MINUTES, I'M SICK OF QUICK GAMES"

damned if you do, damned if you dont

ŚtrongMentalMar 16, 20181 votes

you are actually right... 100% accurate information the problem is 100 people said "lets make the game take less time" and 10's of 1000's are saying "wtf is wrong with you"

TempName74814Mar 16, 20181 votes

lol

BALDG1VEN BOOMERMar 14, 20182 votes

Not likely, since S6 they’ve just been looking to add more and more ways to snowball the game.

HyquiemMar 15, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Thę Weeknd XO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=llMuJVxI,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-14T19:31:00.328+0000)

Not likely, since S6 they’ve just been looking to add more and more ways to snowball the game.

I agree some champs with low range can’t do much when the enemy can escape over and over.

Fade to Black99Mar 14, 20181 votes

They can't make it as they would lose tons of Chinese/Korean players which gives majority of income to them. They want lower games... Snowballing fast and killing everyone is ''fun''...