Nasus Needs A Slight Nerf Before Rework

coreym11··3 votes·1,594 views

Introduction I know the typical response i'm going to get whether its a downvote. Telling me to "git gud" or telling me to counter Nasus (insert start here) or that he is useless above silver but honestly for the health and for the good of the game he needs a change to have a better chance against fighting him as well as for him to be healthier in lower elos of play since "he isn't played anywhere above silver anyway".

                                                                                                                  **Nasus In Game**

Playing adc most of the time I have no control over Nasus during lane phase but the times iv'e played top fighting Nasus in lane is like trying to dry a towel in the middle of the pool and i'm the one playing gnar. People say to counter Nasus you are supposed to poke him and harass him in lane in order to keep him from getting stacks that is supposed to be his counter with that being said why does he have a passive that prevents his counter? His passive give him massive lane sustain so even if you do poke him he just heals it up along with the corrupting potion and if he has lifesteal runes... how are you supposed to poke him out of lane.

                                                                                     **Nasus's Effectiveness Depends On Ranked Or Normal Matches**

A champion should not be considered useless in high ranks but not lower ranks that is bad balancing. Im not talking about high elo cause apparentally "nobody plays him in high elo" because they can "deal with him". Where high ranked play has communication, lower ranked play and normals does not which results in him getting out of hand very easily. Nasus can go alone not ganked and wipe the enemy top lane if both player are both competent. Eventually this losing lane extends into the rest of the game screwing everybody else over. Some counters I hear about Nasus is to "camp his lane" but that results in attention being drawn away from the rest of the team when they actually need help.This attention just keeps Nasus or even get more fed by crosskilling the person ganking and the laner that is there already.

                                                                                                                  **Dealing With Nasus**

An average Nasus needs about the whole team to kill him. "It's a team game." but when Nasus is pushing the second top tower and the rest of his team is pushing the second mid tower it should not have to be a debate over choosing which tower to defend. One person pushing or 4 of his teamates. After team fights if you wipe his whole team you cannot continue pushing mid because you have to stop him. If you continue to push mid lane he will take inhibitor so you have take your whole team and stop him meanwhile his team his respawning and you lost your time to push or take baron.

                                                                                                               **Tanky CC and HIGH damage**

Not only that he is a champion that builds tank he gains damage passively which shouldn't even be a thing. Veigar its ok because he is not building tank and is ap so hes not devastating towers and living forever since he is tanky. For melee heroes fighting Nasus with his slow his litterally an up hill battle and if you Qss it comes back up in the next 2 seconds anyway.

                                                                                                              **Draft Pick And Normals Vs Nasus**

You can do your best to counter pick Nasus in ranked but in blind pick you have no way of knowing your going into a Nasus and you lose lane and eventually the game.

                                                                                                              **Passive Change Or Nerf Till Rework**

All i'm trying to say is that Nasus's early lane sustain should be nerfed so he can actually be poked out of lane like any other champion and make his weakness more defined as it is right now his passive covers up that weakness. Or his Q should be changed that he gets his health (Previously lifesteal) When he kills a minion with his Q. His Q is called (Soul Siphon) it should heal him on kill istead of just inflicting damage.

                                                                                                                **REWORK IDEA**

When he get his eventual rework he should be able to stack but should not do as much damage and maybe stack towards something else other than pure damage. An idea I really like is for him to stack health with his Q instead of damage to make his role a definite tank. and he isn't doing passive amounts of damage and he will still be strong late game without being an insta win.********

13 Comments

agbudar3 votes
                                                                                                                **REWORK IDEA**

When he get his eventual rework he should be able to stack but should not do as much damage and maybe stack towards something else other than pure damage. An idea I really like is for him to stack health with his Q instead of damage to make his role a definite tank. and he isn't doing passive amounts of damage and he will still be strong late game without being an insta win.********

sion does that. also back in the day sion would go full ad with a GA and have 3 k health at the end of the game while criting you for 1 k. so no not a good idea especially not with how his current kit works. you think this a good idea but remember. his damage is tied to his Q not his auto attacks. if you were to give him health instead it would become a flat stat. with that in mind he would totally dominate in the jungle. go warrior trinity force swift boots and generally be a garen that can use WITHER. ow lets not forget his ult.

in regards to countering him... Teemo takes such a royal dump on him its not even funny. so here is how it goes. you poke with your auto's right? now nassus wither's you to kill you he goes in you go away he readies his Q only when he is almost in range do you hit him with your blind. at this point the wither should have run out at which point you pop W stay out of range and keep poking him. do this about 3 times and nassus will be OOM and he can no longer initiate a trade. there thats how you hardcounter nassus. thats the basic teemo counter

Tryndamere Yasuo Pantheon GarenQuinn Jayce they all counter him if you know what you are doing. what you gotta remember with nassus is you need to do more then just your rotation of skills in order to get him out of lane. you gotta poke him with auto's.

five oh tree 3 votes

Nasus is honestly in need of buffs, not nerfs. Even in bronze, if the game lasts past 30 minutes, you can see teams kite and kill nasus. he'll be lucky to land even 3 Q's on the frontline in a teamfight. and splitpushing? Well you force the 5v4 and then send one person to clear waves against him while you 4 take their base and win. it's that simple.

Great Ozymandius1 votes

Yep. Some people say Nasus is a late game champ. That's not true. He used to be but not anymore. Now 1) damage creep means he dies really fast as the front-line in a teamfight even when building full tank; 2) range nerf on wither means he can't reduce dps of enemy adc with teams properly positioned; 3) attack speed reduction nerf on wither means that even if he does with the enemy adc it won't be very impactful.

Nasus absolutely sucks in teamfights post 28 minutes now. It's sad. I used to enjoy playing him. Now the win condition is just too difficult. You need to farm like a boss for the first 20 minutes despite the fact that meta toplaners can harass you so easily (gnar, ekko, etc.), and then you need to use your lead to push deep into the enemy top lane, threatening inhibitor, by 28 minutes without dying.

It's asking a lot if the win condition for a champ with a weak early game is lane dominance and then absolutely crushing top lane in an AFK push by no later than the 28th minute.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

Playing adc most of the time I have no control over Nasus during lane phase

well. as top laners most of the time we have no control over the lane phase of the adc.

how do you think it feels for us when we have to face a fed vayne or jinx by midgame?

i think if nasus is to get a nerf that improves counterplay to his stacking, it would be the active duration of siphoning strike reduced to 1 second so you can deny him cannon minion stacks by ccing him when he goes for them.

right now the duration of the buff is so long that even when you cc him, the cc just runs out and he stacks the minion anyways.

it would be a way to screw with his ability to stack without just flat out destroying him in lane.

but overall he should get buffed and he would need to be compensated with lategame buffs aswell.

TTK Dreadnought2 votes

how do you think it feels for us when we have to face a fed vayne or jinx by midgame?

Can't agree with you more. Tping bot lane to help turn a 2v2 can result in a failed TP gank and loss of top tower, XP, gold and if no one is on the same page, the ADC/Support on the other team could outplay the 3v2 situation.

EndlessSorcerer2 votes

Honestly, the best advice I can give is to ask your jungler for help early. Nasus lanes tend to draw focus from both junglers (Wither is great for setting up ganks while Nasus is an easy target early-game).

One of the most important factors is wave-control. Whenever I play Nasus, I always try to freeze the wave just outside my tower since it makes it difficult for many opponents to harass me, can make me difficult to gank without a risky tower-dive, and leaves my enemy over-extended and exposed to ganks.

Against Nasus, you want to get the minion wave on your side of the lane and freeze it. Nasus has no mobility and his only ranged attack has a high mana-cost, so this can let you chunk him for every CS he goes for and deny him the opportunity to sustain. It also makes it easy for your jungler and/or mid-laner to gank him and harder for you to get ganks.

I generally recommend playing durable, high-damage champions against Nasus. While some squishy champions can make his life horrible early, he will generally murder them with 200 stacks and Sheen (roughly 10 minutes into the game). Nasus can't effectively itemize penetration without sacrificing durability, so champions who can stack armor and MR mitigate his damage greatly.

The following champions are quite good at dealing with Nasus (in my experience):

DrMundo This is my default counter-pick to Nasus. You quickly become unkillable and your mixed sustained damage will gradually eat through him. I typically manage to first-blood Nasus at level 2 without jungler intervention as Mundo and snowball off of that.

Darius Renekton Garen Olaf These champions can build Black Cleaver into defensive items (i.e. Deadman's Plate, Sunfire Cape) to trade with Nasus. They are strong early-game, have innate sustain and they can trade favourably with Nasus so long as they can control the minion wave. In addition, Wither doesn't effect them too badly.

Trundle While Wither can cut your damage output, Trundle's early-trade potential and sustain can let you build a lead against Nasus. Late-game, Trundle can crush Nasus in a 1v1 fight (so long as you have QSS for Wither) and his ultimate will make Nasus squishy during teamfights (while making Trundle unkillable). I'd probably recommend Blade of the Ruined King -> Sunfire Cape in this match-up. Also, Trundle can solo buff camps at level 1, so I'd recommend stealing the enemy red or blue buff and then teleport to lane after basing; you will have an experience advantage and the minion wave will be pushing towards your tower.

Malphite and Maokai have worked surprisingly well in my experience. They are capable of farming against Nasus easily, scale extremely well into the game and are capable of beating Nasus in fights when played appropriately. They get far too durable for Nasus to really hurt pretty quickly, letting you fight him regularly and easily set up ganks against him (or gank elsewhere when the opportunity arises).

Vladimir can be a painful match-up as Nasus. While you are both rather weak early-game, you both scale extremely well and Vlad has the range advantage. Vladimir is one of the few match-ups who can constantly harass Nasus under-tower and out-sustain him. Once Vladimir has Rylai's Crystal Scepter and Void Staff, it can be very difficult to deal with him (especially if he has Boots of Swiftness to kite you).

Champions in other lanes are quite capable of countering Nasus too.

Malzahar can kite and murder Nasus at pretty much every stage of the game if he has his ultimate. If he builds appropriately (i.e. Rod of Ages, Rylai's Crystal Scepter, Liandry's Torment, Void Staff), he can even wear Nasus down without it due to his high damage and durability.

MasterYi is capable of dueling Nasus whenever he has his ultimate available. Highlander makes Master Yi immune to attack speed and movement speed slows, which renders Wither (Nasus' main defensive tool) useless. Master Yi will typically be able to kill Nasus through raw DPS while Skirmisher's Sabre and Meditate can be used to reduce the damage Nasus deals to him.

Most supports are quite capable of peeling him off of their carries. This pretty much extends to the entire support class.

item 3047 are especially valuable against Nasus as most champion. In addition to providing armor, it reduces the damage of his Q and basic attacks by an unmitigateable 10%.

item 3116 and item 3022 and item 3025 are very useful to have on your team against Nasus since they can help your team kite him during teamfights, preventing him from reaching or sticking to targets.

The ADC should make sure to grab item 3140 . Wither is Nasus' only real defensive tool against them and if they remove it immediately after application, they should be able to kill him before it goes off cooldown.

GULAG 4 U2 votes

So you're asking to nerf a relatively crappy champion atm?

Carnarius2 votes

it's funny that you want to make nasus even worse in high elo just because you can't deal with him in lower elos. sorry but i don't see logic here. btw, nasus has 47% win rate along with low pick rate at the moment

DreadedClone1 votes

I one hundred percent agree nasus has been a problem for a long time I hope to god riot see this because even if your great at top lane nasus is still a free win. His late game is too strong as well as his mid game damage which causes him to snowball into late being unkillable with consistent pressure that your team can use every couple minutes. Please god riot listen to this guy and understand that nasus needs to be nerfed.

Rito Gums1 votes

its kinda like veigar he gets stacks from minions then begins oneshotting, also he got a buff last patch so he is being played way more than nasus

Great Muta1 votes

I've been playing Veigar lately and I've just been melting people, and I don't even get above 6/cs per min averages. My first 3 Veigar games had me dealing 35k, 30k and 42k damage. My Q's and W's are getting doing 800 AP damage.

Ravenous Howls1 votes

Nasus is the epitome of balanced and is only in a bad spot b/c so many meta champs have so much free damage and CC in their kits that Nasus rarely fulfills his late game fantasy anymore.

He has one, count one, damaging ability, that he has to work 100% harder than any other champion in the game to make relevant, with the rest of his kit balanced around it. I am sorry you are having so much trouble with him in games but the truth is he's under powered in almost all scenarios of play. If you removed his sustain are going to give him some heavy AD ratio's on SF and his Ult to compensate him so he can trade?

Also none of your arguments are relevant or factual outside of you just don't like the champion. There are ton of champions who scale better and do a tremendous amount more damage than him. Also he's a juggernaut and like most juggernauts he's meant to be incredibly difficult to kill while dealing a tremendous amount of damage if he can reach that point of play then he earned it.

Also your whole argument is predicated that a champion should not be able to build tanky and still do damage. Really? Darius, Garen, Illaoi, Yasuo, Gnar, ect. I could go on but the point is this is the way he was intended to be. If you don't like it don't play blind pick and ban or ask for a ban. However it would be a waste. there are far more oppressive champions that can kill you or decide a game so much faster than Nasus can. I down voted you not b/c I disagree with you but you are asking to gut a champion and not compensate him with anything than health stacking. Sion? Nasus is not a TANK he is a Juggernaut. There is a difference.

Great Ozymandius1 votes

There is a ton of counterplay versus Nasus.

Let's start with Nasus' win condition. For him to significantly contribute to his team's victory (rather than be carried by superior teammates), he needs to

  1. effectively farm during the early game This usually means 400+ stacks by 20 minutes.

  2. Take first tower and second tower by 25th minute. Consistently pressure inhibitor tower thereafter. Ideally take inhibitor by 28th minute. Never let your laning opponent tilt the odds in his team's favor.

This is because he needs to either take objectives or give his team a number advantage. And the importance of q stacking prevents him from giving his team a numbers advantage through rotations or teleport roams. This also means he can't allow his enemy laner to roam. It also means he cannot die to ganks despite pushing hard all the time.

The reason why this is his wind condition is because:

  1. Nasus does virtually zero damage without stacking q, so he is no threat early game.
  2. The need to stack prevents Nasus from leaving lane and helping his team in other lanes.
  3. Nasus is bad in teamfights because he is easily kited and does not contribute much on the front line.

Thus, he doesn't have damage to contribute before around 20 minutes. If he has stacked well, he has a lot of damage and some tank stats so he can maybe win 1v2's and can push towers for the next 8 minutes or so. But if he doesn't get inhib and doesn't pull away several enemies (thereby allowing his teammates to take big objectives), then we are at 30 minutes and his team hasn't gained anything substantive yet. Now that we are at 30 minutes, the other lanes have their core items, everyone is grouping for teamfights, a 5v4 (without Nasus) strongly favors the team with 5 even in a tower dive, and towers get melted by the winning team. This means Nasus can't continue to AFK splitpush without his team getting destroyed. But Nasus sucks in teamfights if the enemy team has even a modicum of cc. He'll die in several seconds as the front-line, he won't get in range to wither the enemy ADC to reduce her dps, and the only person he can q is the enemy 300 armor 3500 hp tank who has stacked armor and doesn't get hurt very much by nasus' q even if nasus has 1000 q stakcs.

So, you see, Nasus sucks at late game teamfights, which means he needs crush the toplane during the early-midgame, which means he has to farm very well in the early game despite being fragile, having low mana, and having low damage. It also means that the enemy top laner has to be stupid enough to lose lane to nasus AND not build tank stats.

  1. pick a champion with strong early game harass.
    If you have trouble harassing him out of lane with standard picks, like gnar, you can absolutely brutalize him with non-standard picks. For example, cass absolutely destroys nasus (ranged harass, high dps that does not depend upon attack speed, kiting with rylai's). Leblanc is also very strong. In general, nasus struggles against ranged champions and against mages, so these all work well versus him.

  2. pick a champion with strong midgame roams Maybe you didn't deny nasus farm, and maybe he's going to take your tower, but you are rumble and have a great ultimate, so you come mid and give your midlaner a kill and take mid tower. you tp bot a couple minutes later, give your adc two kills and take bot tower. Sure, nasus got more farm and took one or two of your towers but it is too late for him because now your team is going to crush 4v4's because you got them so far ahead.

  3. pick a tanky champion with a good lategame teamfight. Fine, let nasus farm. He gets to 400 q-stacks at 20 minutes. But you have good waveclear so he never gets to hit your tower. And you are very tanky so he can never tower dive you. Early-mid game you can push your wave then tp bot to help your team. But even if you can, just sit under tower collecting cs waiting for midgame. Now he has lots of stcks but you are a strong teamfighting tank and nasus hasn't gotten any towers. You either leave top lane, group 5v4 mid, dive the enemy, and take 3 towers plus inhib, or Nasus follows and you win the teamfight.

Nasus is incredibly weak right now because his win condition is so difficult to hit. You can abuse him in many different ways. You don't even need to deny him cs. Just farm as well as you want and make a stronger contribution to teamfights.

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