Boards›Gameplay

Bot lane has turned so stressful and so cheese to play, doesn't even feel competitive

coreym11··44 votes·13,190 views

I'm not high elo but I have been a adc main since season 5 and nearly every game of league I have ever played of league has been bot lane. I have enough experience in this lane to say that over time this lane has changed from a more competitive and tense competition between adc and adc with supports pressuring each other into which duo picked a mage bot lane who can spam the most damaging, low cd, and lowest mana cost spells and prevent the enemy bot lane from actually playing the game.

Mages have so much power that they really drown out the skill of both bot laners, its like the adc who doesn't have a mage support can't even play the game and the adc with a mage support isn't actually doing anything skill full to win. The adc that does not have the mage supporting them in bot lane gets pushed under tower struggling to cs and survive, its almost impossible to even stay in the same lane being pressured everytime you walk up to cs. Supports like Lux ,Brand , Velkoz ,Neeko , and Xerath are doing immense amounts of damage with little to no risk of being pressured especially when the enemy bans Blitzcrank or Thresh with their 1 opportunity 10 sec cd hook. The lane instead of being anyway competitive is now people throwing mindless high damaging skill shots preventing the adc from being able to farm entirely by poking then zoning them from cs or straight up causing them to back. You don't really get to see the differences in actual skill between the adc's until after the lane is over.

Playing a lane against Caitlyn and Lux or Brand is literally almost impossible to play in without being down 30+ cs. You can't even walk up to cs without losing 1/4th of your hp. Playing games with Alistar Vs Leona are so much more enjoyable, tense, and competitive rather than your Thresh vs their Lux .

Take mages out of bot lane please or buff the early magic resistance of adcs or maybe even give them an early item that gives them mr. Mages are ruining this lane.

46 Comments

Hayaishi235 votes

This game is broken. It will never go back to what it used to be, league will die before going back to when it was actually good.

Bot lane has been garbage ever since they allowed mages to be played down there with no risk at all.

Moody P14 votes

Mages have been going bot lane for almost 7 years now

Hayaishi210 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZBbOEiYZ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-19T09:24:06.213+0000)

Mages have been going bot lane for almost 7 years now

And Riot has removed every risk to running them for over 7 years.

Like everytime they reduce base stats and sustain, reducing ADC agency. Or nerf every enchanter so that they can't compete with mages anymore.

ProExpertKing2 votes

Lux and Morgana are fine, but Ahri, Brand, and Xerath should have never been allowed and shut down like how sona taric was shut down

AlterMordred2 votes

{quoted}

Bot Top lane has been garbage ever since they allowed mages to be played down up there with no risk at all.

Vladimir Neeko Ryze Mages everywhere

Dewott6101 votes

but riot wants Lux to be down there and variety and shit, who cares if it's actually balanced

Flashes1 votes

{quoted}

This game is broken. It will never go back to what it used to be, league will die before going back to when it was actually good.

Bot lane has been garbage ever since they allowed mages to be played down there with no risk at all.

LOL remember when everyone supported double mage botlanes because they thought it was "diversity"?

No it wasn't, it was ADCs like Tristana and Varus being essentially deleted from the game due to their <45% winrates. Swain was at Sivir 0.12 power levels, and people were defending Swain, Vladimir, and Heimerdinger's rise as the best 3 botlaners because "diversity".

The thigh guy18 votes

Bot lane has been “pick top 3 or lose” for years now dude.

Metal Janna11 votes

This is so Poe's Law.

"Cheap mages landing one skillshot and I lose a quarter of my health! I'd rather play against a hook support who lands a single skillshot and I lose all of my health!"

Anotherherolost2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Metal Janna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZBbOEiYZ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-19T03:25:18.864+0000)

This is so Poe's Law.

"Cheap mages landing one skillshot and I lose a quarter of my health! I'd rather play against a hook support who lands a single skillshot and I lose all of my health!"

What does "This is so Poe's law" mean? Poe's law deals in expression of intent in a statement or question. This is just contradictory exaggeration. Seems like you just saw someone mention Poe's law somewhere and regurgitated it.

Trundle Bundle1 votes

The contradictory exaggeration is his evidence of ambiguous parody.

I Smell Pizza11 votes

Used to play sup, but a normal sup is removed from the game.

Daddy Ants10 votes

The issue is item 3020.... Hear me out.

Ranged Champions start with 30 base Magic Resist and have a 0.5 per level MR growth.

Let's say for the purpose of this post that laning phase ends around level 8.

I just went into the practice tool on Caitlyn, leveled myself to 8 and discovered I have 33 Magic Resist.

For 1,100 Gold a Mage can remove 55% of my total magic resist.

 

Most of these "Support" Mages also build item 3916... Once they complete that, they're dealing True Damage to me.

 

Even if you take the 8 MR shard, item 3020 removes 44% of your total MR.

item 3020 item 3916 removes 80% of your MR if you take the MR shard.

 

BuT jUst BuY A nULL mAgIc MAnTLe - Mage Mains.

Easier said than done, Marksmen are the most item reliant class in the game. Delaying a Blade of the Ruined King or Infinity Edge by 450 gold is huge.

Daddy Ants3 votes

{quoted}

The issue is item 3020.... Hear me out.

Ranged Champions start with 30 base Magic Resist and have a 0.5 per level MR growth.

Let's say for the purpose of this post that laning phase ends around level 8.

I just went into the practice tool on Caitlyn, leveled myself to 8 and discovered I have 33 Magic Resist.

For 1,100 Gold a Mage can remove 55% of my total magic resist.

 

Most of these "Support" Mages also build item 3916... Once they complete that, they're dealing True Damage to me.

 

Even if you take the 8 MR shard, item 3020 removes 44% of your total MR.

item 3020 item 3916 removes 80% of your MR if you take the MR shard.

Continuing on from this...

Either the Flat Magic Penetration on both of these items needs to be reduced slightly or the base MR / MR growth of all ranged champions needs to be increased slightly.

Freeza with an I7 votes

Honestly I wish they'd just remove Cait's onboxiously long headshot combo. If she has a root/snare support it basically guarantees you're dead if youg et hit one. Lux Q's you? TRAP INTO A BONUS DAMAGE HEADSHOT INTO A E HEADSHOT. Literally either A. Remove her ability to use the E Headshot or better yet: Make her W deal base damage or let it headshot but not massive amounts of bonus damage!!

Śhunpo7 votes

And then you have to face Yuumi , where the lane has literally 0 interactivity because she's usually picked with either Ezreal , Sivir, or Caitlyn , who are all extremely safe.

Also 1/4 of your HP? More like at least 80% thanks to summoner 14 , Scorch, Aery/Comet/Electrocute and Cheap Shot.

FSRER1 votes

At least you can gang up on these ADC's and kill them. There are other hypercarry ADC like Draven and Lucian which yummi makes unkillable and able to solo carry the game

chipndip15 votes

Really just baseless complaining, honestly.

HàrrowR5 votes

Honestly i don't feel like mages bot are as punishing as they once were, it might be just my personal opinion though but there's a lot of stuff you can do to minimize the effectiveness of the poke.

  1. Choose the right champion Ezreal Caitlyn Jhin Jinx Kaisa Lucian Sivir Vayne like most of these champions have either long range and are pretty safe or have a lot of mobility to quickly avoid incoming damage, i know it's funny that i've put Vayne there and it's maybe just because she's been one of my mains for the last 8 seasons but even with her i don't usually feel too threatened by poke since she can reposition quickly

  2. Choose the right runes, i think 90% of the players completely gloss over the runes, they see a recommended build and just stick to it mindlessly forever, if you're up against a brand bot lane then taking some defensive runes will mean a lot, legend bloodline, fleet footwork, magical potion delivery, even going for the resolve tree and getting second wind and boneplating will keep you alive much longer and you can actually start with +12 MR

  3. Items- Again 90% of the players never experiment with any of the different builds, don't be afraid to build item 3111 or item 3047 it's not a huge loss of dps especially if you're not playing a very AA reliant champ like Lucian or MF for example but it can help you stay safer,farm more,participate in more fights and get more kills just by virtue of staying alive to do it.

And for later game you don't need to go item 3006 item 3087 item 3094 item 3031 item 3508 to deal damage especially if you're not coupled with an enchanter support like lulu or a healbot soraka.

item 3006 item 3046 item 3031 item 3139 item 3036 item 3026 When you factor in the increased survive time you'll end up doing the same or even more damage in total but won't be frustrated as much of getting clipped by Lux Q and instantly deleted.

Like i said you have to adapt to every game, if you're going bot with Soraka and have an Ivern jungle you can go all out full damage and rely on them to save you, if your support is pyke that can't heal or shield you you'll have to rely on yourself. item 3026 item 3139 item 3046 just these three items completely change the feel of the role try it out and see for yourself, you don't have to be a super squishy hiding cowering in fear

https://gyazo.com/20bca0907d8b3266a7d5f9b221450675 https://gyazo.com/937630eb3a37d8eba681d4925fb0ac9a

Daddy Ants2 votes

{quoted}

Honestly i don't feel like mages bot are as punishing as they once were, it might be just my personal opinion though but there's a lot of stuff you can do to minimize the effectiveness of the poke.

  1. Choose the right runes, i think 90% of the players completely gloss over the runes, they see a recommended build and just stick to it mindlessly forever, if you're up against a brand bot lane then taking some defensive runes will mean a lot, legend bloodline, fleet footwork, magical potion delivery, even going for the resolve tree and getting second wind and boneplating will keep you alive much longer and you can actually start with +12 MR

Bloodline takes 20+ mins to be useful.

Fleet has been nothing but nerfed into the ground.

HàrrowR1 votes

{quoted}

Bloodline takes 20+ mins to be useful.

Fleet has been nothing but nerfed into the ground.

I agree fleet is not as useful and i personally never take it, but it does help out a bit, still magical biscuit delivery will do a ton to help out and legend bloodline doesnt take 20 mins to be usefull, you can get 3-4% lifesteal really early + 3% from dorans blade and thats 7% which will heal you for something at least.

It's a lot more usefull than having nothing at all, don't know why you'd downvote though, kinda sad

Nea1045 votes

Brand

V8.1 (January 10th, >>>2018<<<)

Blaze 
    Damage per stack increased to 4% of target's maximum health from 2%.

V9.2 (January 24th, >>>2019<<<)

Blaze 
    Damage over time reduced to 3% of target's maximum health from 4%.

1 whole season of that idi absurd Brand's buff. They intentionally allowed him to mindlessy spam as a "support", not caring about feedbacks, not thinking if that was enjoyable or not.

They lost tons of players during Season 8 not by chance or accident. And they still haven't understood much, not surprisingly.

preternatural4 votes

lol just pick leona into all the mages.

PermaJinxed4 votes

I started playing at the start of S3. Caitlyn Lux had ALWAYS been a nightmare bully lane...... ALWAYS.

And I do agree mages are a little strong (I feel a burst mage should still do 70-80% with a FULL combo to a squishy and have to play around thier cds or die to a marksman while everything is down. Assassins should do 100% with thier combo but outright die if they can't get in/be weak to poke. Tanks should laugh at mages and assassins but die to adcs over like 10 seconds while NOT being able to kill a squishy in under that time. And adcs should be tank crushers and either dodge and win against mages or get poked out, and just be weak to assassins in general)

RavenMagus4 votes

Why are you bashing mages?

This has nothing to do with mages at all. It has to do with the insane amount of damage that everyone is doing.

Mages are not the only ones. Nami Blitzcrank Thresh Leona Alistar Nautilus Zilean ? They're not mages, but if any of them hits you with their CC, you are dead.

2Charmnot2Charm2 votes

{quoted}

Why are you bashing mages?

This has nothing to do with mages at all. It has to do with the insane amount of damage that everyone is doing.

Mages are not the only ones. Nami Blitzcrank Thresh Leona Alistar Nautilus Zilean ? They're not mages, but if any of them hits you with their CC, you are dead.

Boards just have an massive hate boner for mages for some reason.

If these mage supports were really as busted as they claim we would be seeing them in every single pro game, but that is not happening.

The closest to that is Lux but she wasn't even being built as AP Carry Lux.

mack91123 votes

Idk I have played a lot of velkoz support and when you get to around mid plat the adc players actually know how to dodge your skill shots and the game gets real.

It really is night and day.

preternatural3 votes

Leona

PhantomGG3 votes

Remove biscuts and mana flow band from game

let mages actually run out of mana

DeleteSuppRole2 votes

i wish bot lane was an ADC 1v1 lane without any supports

ZeichiVos2 votes

For a long time bot lane has been a rock-paper-scissors between damage supps, engage supps, and sustain/peel supps, with some hybridization (alistar, sona.) Whichever of the 3 is the strongest at any given moment show up the most, their winning matchup becomes rare and low winrate until they're buffed up. The cycle continues. Eventually the tank ones will be strong, then we'll go back to something like the ardent meta. All of them can be frustrating when they're strong.

If we're not worried about getting hard zoned off CS (damage/poke), then we're worried about adcs being incredibly tanky and impossible to poke down(sustain/peel), or we're worried about the supp being an unkillable engage monster that effectively kills you or shoves you out of lane by landing a single ability(tank/engage). So it has been, so it will be. This cycle isn't going away either, not unless they bring back ward gimp supports from season 3. Be mollified knowing that your preferred supp type will rotate back in soon enough.

Pool Party Pix2 votes

Yes mages are overpowered and don't forget how are they also ruining top lane

Luxana Crowngard2 votes

Like all mages in the support role, they are essentially playing from behind 24/7. You will always have a gold advantage against them, and on top of that you can bum rush them when they use their one and only peel ability as all of the mage supports only have 1 ability that is threatening. You can't just let them poke you out you gotta establish dominance to shit on mage supports. It's rough at first yes, but once you get your a game and score a kill on that mage, they are effectively useless for the next 12 minutes lol

floo2 votes

How about taking off the mana reg of item 3303 and item 3098 and make mage supports actually buy item 3092 . Thereby they wouldn't be allowed to spam poke abilities non-stop and all in at any given opportunity + give them a reason to finish their support item. They can very well just upgrade it as 6th item, which in return gives them an earlier item 3020 or item 3916 .

Sir Saltarin2 votes

Read half of it and I'll say it's bullshit

Botlane is perfectly fine and mage supps are not a problem

KVbqbFsC8e2 votes

Very amusing to read ADCs crying about this as someone who has played toplane for years.

xelaker2 votes

you can still play non mage stuff at bot...

Busty Demon2 votes

I would take all of those happily than a Nautilus with aftershock..... That thing can't be support.

GripaAviara1 votes

I hate lux, I started to ban that overpowered champion kept in this state to sell the damn skins.

While maybe Lux is not your 1v5 hard carry for people to consider being broken, it is. The fact a stary Q can hit you and with a full combo you are dead at lvl 8 vs theoretical support it's absurd. Not to count the fact being rooted means you are also mad vulnerable to their ADC

Proxy3451 votes

ADCs aren't even needed anymore,all you need is assassins,bruisers and mages to win every match. The team with an ADC is just gonna get oneshotted and tower dived all day and then the ADC will be left alone and useless.

l MrD l1 votes

i know theyre working on support items for pre season so this should help actual supports depending on what the plans are? but anyways i dont like this ap mages bot either im kinda sick of just damage everywhere ...... even the divers build so much damage and get away with it thanks to steraks GA maw etc .. used to be a jax would build tri and botrk but now i just dont know anymore

Just top lane damage jungler damage mid damage adc damage support damage

NO wonder damage is high used to be low damage champs top support and mainly jungle and the actual ones with high damage was nid nd adc now everyone has it and we all get blown up as soon as possible all for the sake of making LCS etc more fun and exciting to watch ...

rawiazam11 votes

welcome to top lane buddy

Crescent Dusk1 votes

You're cute. You're just getting to experience what top lane has live through since its inception.

FantasySniper1 votes

Funny, I'm finding Thresh Blitzcrank Pyke a lot less enjoyable to play against than poke supports. Hooks make an all-in stupid-easy. Even if you poked them down to 15% health while you're near full, they'll still win the fight because of their absurd CC and damage. It's ridiculous.

soodow1 votes

I have a friend that has mained adc for many years and has hard considereed going full time mid bc of the bot lane adc game rn. Getting ahead as adc is hard enough as it is, and with mages coming and making nearly impossible to actually adCARRY in any way shape or form.., and even if you do great in lane, there is little reward to it at all if the 3/4/2 enemy jg can still one shot you or the 2/1 neeko mid like ????

Beerstein1 votes

{quoted}

I'm not high elo but I have been a adc main since season 5 and nearly every game of league I have ever played of league has been bot lane. I have enough experience in this lane to say that over time this lane has changed from a more competitive and tense competition between adc and adc with supports pressuring each other into which duo picked a mage bot lane who can spam the most damaging, low cd, and lowest mana cost spells and prevent the enemy bot lane from actually playing the game.

Mages have so much power that they really drown out the skill of both bot laners, its like the adc who doesn't have a mage support can't even play the game and the adc with a mage support isn't actually doing anything skill full to win. The adc that does not have the mage supporting them in bot lane gets pushed under tower struggling to cs and survive, its almost impossible to even stay in the same lane being pressured everytime you walk up to cs. Supports like Lux ,Brand , Velkoz ,Neeko , and Xerath are doing immense amounts of damage with little to no risk of being pressured especially when the enemy bans Blitzcrank or Thresh with their 1 opportunity 10 sec cd hook. The lane instead of being anyway competitive is now people throwing mindless high damaging skill shots preventing the adc from being able to farm entirely by poking then zoning them from cs or straight up causing them to back. You don't really get to see the differences in actual skill between the adc's until after the lane is over.

Playing a lane against Caitlyn and Lux or Brand is literally almost impossible to play in without being down 30+ cs. You can't even walk up to cs without losing 1/4th of your hp. Playing games with Alistar Vs Leona are so much more enjoyable, tense, and competitive rather than your Thresh vs their Lux .

Take mages out of bot lane please or buff the early magic resistance of adcs or maybe even give them an early item that gives them mr. Mages are ruining this lane.

As a jg main trying to learn ADC, I agree. I know I'm bad at ADC but I can literally walk out of lane with half the CS the opponent has and then by the time mid phase is almost over be man handling them and close to their CS. By late game, stomp their faces in. Again it's partly that I suck at laning, but it's also part that bit Lane feels like ARAM sometimes and almost entirely in the hands of the supports.

Anyway, jg may be weak, but at least I don't have to deal with that crap in the jg lol. Would rather get hard countered in jg than play a bot lane mess.

That said, I normally secondary support and now I see why ADCs are so timid, lol.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by coreym11

Why are Caitlyn traps allowed to survive under tower?
Gameplay144 comments
148
votes
Bot lane is literally a bullet hell shooter
Gameplay137 comments
73
votes
Why doesn't league have a game based around it's lore already?
Story, Art, & Sound26 comments
28
votes
Why do you lose lp if you lose promos but don't gain any if you win?
Gameplay6 comments
18
votes
How am I supposed to peel Rengar?
Gameplay21 comments
15
votes
Why are "boosted" teammates in my games? How are they even the same rank?
Gameplay27 comments
11
votes