This right here seems so off to me. None of the other traps or enemy anything really survive under tower range. Is this here solely to compensate for something that Caitlyn would lack if her traps couldn't survive under tower range? Because honestly I don't know why these traps are allowed to live under the tower.
BlueBilberry28 votesGiven the traps can zone a defensive enemy out from their tower quite easily, I can understand the pain. Especially that trap which can be placed just behind the tower which is hidden from view by the tower itself.
Azteryz16 votesyeah those ones are tricky
i think a way to make this fair isnt to necessarily make them like other traps (jhin,teemo) where you can see them and thus hit them
but make them like azirs soldiers where instead of lasting the full duration it last significantly shorter
so
traps last 90 seconds usually but only last 9 seconds when under tower range
so well timed traps under towers whether its bad positioning on the enemy team or when tower diving enemies will be rewarded but mindlessly spamming traps under the tower will not because they will disappear in a 9 seconds and cait will be left trapless
My Heartshaker9 votesThat would be another massive nerf to caitlyn overall.
She'd have to have some power put back in somewhere else, hopefully reverting some of her base attack speed nerfs as those are the worst nerfs an ADC can suffer.
3TWarrior7 voteswould it really even be a nerf? she is supposed to be a siege champion and not a wait for you to get trapped setup champion
her traps were actually originally a joke against teemo and assassins
her traps are quite literally "yordle trap"s
so, if she, like everyone else, wants to attack someone under their tower, she should do it with abilities and temporary means
jinx traps only last for 3 seconds for instance, I don't know jhin's duration but I think they can get hit under tower, teemo's get attacked by the tower eventually, etc
it's only fair, especially considering their range and lack of an activation time once deployed
ModCaliCoastReplay6 votesYes, it would. Cait's traps aren't that tragic, but it does make a difference. Watch some pro Cait games, they don't neglect traps...
CannonLordFreed12 votesBecause hers are technically visible. The reason other traps don't persist is because they're typically invisible but have an hp bar. Cait traps are visible and just exist for a period of time. You can play around them, so long as you know they're there. Other traps are more of a surprise when they hit you, and cait's traps feel more like "Well, I fucked up."
coreym116 votesI wasn't aware they had a time limit because they last so long...
CannonLordFreed8 votesYeah, they have a time limit, it's just like 5 minutes or something crazy I think.
CannonLordFreed5 votesEdit: They last about 90 seconds. But yeah, they're pretty hard to deal with.
i cant move wtf5 votesHow is 90 seconds hard to deal with? Literally if you play safe and farm under tower the trap will expire and she'll have to put a new one down in its place. Seriously people need to stop blaming CHAMPIONS and start blaming THEMSELVES. Cait isn't even strong after the attack speed nerf, she's B tier at best. You're just getting outplayed and crying to riot about it.
Vah Naboris7 votesattack speed was the wrong place to nerf her that's why. trap recharge time is under 90 seconds and you get 3 at rank one, so if you aren't super aggressive the lane will naturally push to your tower unless your waveclear is better, and then you have 3 traps under your tower which is supposed to be your safe zone early game.
i cant move wtf3 votesUh I think Riot knows how to balance their game better than you? Besides they're not going to touch her traps, they're part of her identity <3
Vah Naboris5 votesUh, maybe you shouldn't be on the boards, an open forum for people to discuss what they think? She's a ranged ADC attack speed is "part of her identity" too. Second, Riot has reworked champions who look nothing like their old "identities" now. What an ignorant comment. Also, I said n o t h i n g about removing the traps mechanic, it NEEDS to be changed, and I can't help you if you're too blind to see that. They need to either make her traps killable under tower or reduce the range at which she can place them. Safely zoning the enemy under their own tower early game is just stupid, especially when trapped targets take extra damage just from being trapped that scales with her AD AND get an automatic headshot AND have double her basic attack range.
i cant move wtf3 votesI'm not saying traps are her identity. I'm saying putting traps behind tower visibility and under champions from a safe distance to either chunk you down very low or one-shot you IS her identity. And riot's not going to change that about her (and shouldn't) BECAUSE it's her identity. I can't spell it out more clearly than that.
Flemman4 votes[{quoted}](name=i cant move wtf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UZIF5QiM,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-07-23T17:59:35.264+0000)
putting traps behind tower visibility ...IS her identity
Even if it's identity, it's a toxic one (kinda like how old poppy ult was her identity but got change because of how toxic it was to face)
Cait trap need shorter duration when place under ennemy tower (20sec so you can sill use them to force a 4 man tower?), just like how azir soldier last shorter to avoid the zoning from afar abuse
Dominick Destine3 votes[{quoted}](name=Lorde of the Sun,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UZIF5QiM,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-23T16:59:31.696+0000)
attack speed was the wrong place to nerf her that's why. trap recharge time is under 90 seconds and you get 3 at rank one, so if you aren't super aggressive the lane will naturally push to your tower unless your waveclear is better, and then you have 3 traps under your tower which is supposed to be your safe zone early game.
The above quoted is the worst math I've ever seen in LoL arguments... and I've seen some bad arguments before.
Ok stay with me here; If her trap recharge time is 90 seconds.... and her traps last 90 seconds..... how does she hvae 3 traps under your turret? and assuming she does have 3 traps under your turret,that took 270 seconds of wait time which is 4 and a half minutes, which is the first 2/3rds of laning phase (remember that nearly the first 2 minutes are pre-laning).
Logic is not a type of sandwich at Burger King.... incidentally, I don't play ADC , but when I do , I play Cait and max traps first to infuriate people like you.
Durzaka4 votesHer trap recharge time is 45 seconds at rank one.
He didnt say they were 90 seconds, he said it was under 90 seconds, which means if one expires she will always have another ready to place.
45 second recharge time. Means she can have 3 under your turret at whenever she wants as soon as the laning starts, if she skills it up soon enough.
Dominick Destine2 votesHe didnt say they were 90 seconds, he said it was under 90 seconds
That in and of itself proves my point.
"Under 90 seconds"? that's some solid math right there.... even with the adjustments, Cait will not have her traps up as the person implied so .... good try, still fails.
Durzaka1 votes[deleted]
Dominick Destine3 votesWell that's lovely.
Durzaka4 voteslol, you reported me. What a baby.
What? I showed in my post how they would be up exactly as he said. 45 second recharge time means 3 traps at around 2 minutes into the game. Which is right around the time Caitlyn can have the wave pushing into the enemy tower t use them.
Just so everyone can continue to see what you were too embarrassed to try and argue against because you new you were wrong.
Sexy Jack Rabbit3 voteslol, you reported me. What a baby.
Welcome to conversations with DD.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votescaits traps last 90seconds take 1.1 sec to 'arm" amount of traps placed depends on points put into W , 3,3,4,4,5 traps meaning she can only have 3 traps out at one time unless she has put 3 or more points into the skill
teemo shrooms last 5 mins can place maximum of 3 at a time and provide vision in the area
i cant move wtf1 votesExactly. Cait's traps should last 5 minutes AT LEAST and give vision (like teemo shrooms). Maybe then us cait mains won't have to break our backs to make this B-tier champ viable.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo4 voteslike i played her a week before the AS nerf i am at best average at adc ( support/tank main mainly maokai) i had kda of 7/4/10 , 10/4/17/, 6/1/5, 19/6/15, 9/4/9
after the nerfs 2/3/2, 5/7/12, 4/10/10, 3/11/4 like she legit got raped with the as nerf
im all for changes to her traps if she has some kind of fukin scaling
HalcyonDweller9 votesI was not aware that stepping on one trap in a minefield of them qualified as an avoidable "fuck-up."
Durzaka2 votesYou can play around them, so long as you know they're there.
There really isnt much room to play around when she has all 5 laid out in a line in front of your turret. (or even defending her turret. its why Caitlyn is going to continue to be a pro pick. By herself, as long as she is staying even she can draw out games almost as long as she wants in a defensive or offensive siege situation. Her trap line and headshot threat is her true power, and it is what makes her so oppressive to fight).
CannonLordFreed1 votesYes, she's got a little line that lasts for about a minute and a half that she cannot push past or she risks getting CC'd and bursted, or ganked, since she likely will get her wards cleared if she's on the defense. The reason she's such a popular pro pick is because of her early game strength in general, not just from her traps.
Durzaka1 votesYou act like she is alone all the time.
The fact is she is with her team when that happens.
If she is alone, she is an idiot and shouldnt be considered for the conversation.
The point is, if her and her team are pushing a turret together, and she sets up a line of traps, there is basically nothing your team can do to engage on Caitlyns team, because if you do, you get CCd by the trap, eat an empowered headshot, on top of anything the rest of her team can throw at the person. Anyone but a tank is going to die. And the tank will get chunked low enough that they can no longer continue to engage.
On top of that, when it is maxed it has a 90 second duration with a 10 second recharge time. So you will never break/trip them faster than she can get them down if she properly traps you in.
CannonLordFreed1 votesYou know, even if she has all five placed in a line, you can still fit between them with most adc's. A pretty good number of supports too. Plus, y'know, if she's pushed up jungle/mid could gank then and she's got nothing protecting her from that, so that's someone else she has to deal with as well.
Durzaka3 votesYou dont need to step on a trap for them to be effective.
By forcing you to take certain paths it allows your team to line up skill shots easily, and you have no way to properly avoid them except to retreat or step on a trap.
Again with the talk of ganking. Im talking about pushing as a team, not solo. meaning Caitlyns support is with her. And her Frontline is also with her ready to peel.
SettDownShutUp3 votesBecause hers are technically visible. The reason other traps don't persist is because they're typically invisible but have an hp bar. Cait traps are visible and just exist for a period of time. You can play around them, so long as you know they're there. Other traps are more of a surprise when they hit you, and cait's traps feel more like "Well, I fucked up."
I'd agree with you if there were an indicator for when a trap was behind a turret model.
CannonLordFreed3 votesYeah, they really need an indicator for that. Other than that though, I'd say she's pretty balanced.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 voteswell that has more to do with visuals and spacial coding of the map/structures in game then the trap itself...
it be more of a bug that needs to be corrected then an ability that needs to be gutted
The5lacker1 votesNo one's talking about gutting abilities. If you think making her traps less good on 2% of the surface area of the entire map is gutting, you're a delusional crybaby throwing a hissy fit over a change that would drastically improve game health at the absolute minimum expense for a champion who's already no-risk, moderate-reward.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesonce again you are blaming the ability not the coding of the game andhow it relates to the spacial properties of structures in game...
nerfing her trap isnt the issue... the issue is the so called lack of vision of it being placed at your turret
The5lacker1 votesThat's resoundingly not the issue. The issue is that it's a no-risk, high-reward ability that negates any sort of ability to fight Caitlyn, even under your own tower, the premier safe-zone of League. If a champion's ability makes you completely unsafe even under your own tower, that's not a "Niche" that's being filled, that's a failure of game design in motion. If a champion's "Niche" is being completely one-sided, they need to find a new niche. And right now, being stuck in that niche is killing Caitlyn.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votescait isnt diving you cuz she puts a trap at ur turret it dont make you unsafe in lane
if anything it exposed cait to flanks/ganks if she uses her 3 traps in lane ( 3 cuz unless she has 3 or more points in that ability she can only place 3) to push you under turret she has no traps able to zone from the ganks and jungler ./mid coming down.
this is nothing new just as any champ you over extended you get popped or should ...
so her risk is being over extended while pushing you under turret... and not having the traps available to zone gank paths
if her traps didnt proc head shot would you have the same outcry over them ? or is it solely cuz it procs headshot ?
The5lacker1 votes"Cait's traps don't make you unsafe." Are you high? Is the foundation of your argument that Cait's traps don't do their job? Of course they make you unsafe in lane! You can't approach her without being rooted and taking damage in return! You can't move up to farm without being rooted and taking damage in return! You can't help your jungler gank Cait without being rooted and likely taking damage in return!
The problem is, against Cait, "Overextend" means "Enter her vision radius." That's not the case with any other champion. Ever. No ADC has an effective range of "Can they see you?" And no matter how much that plays into the sniper fantasy, it's not fun to play against and should be changed, because League is a game about having fun while fighting your opponents.
Chembaron Yamada7 votesTheir purpose is to be a sieging tool. Therefore, if they would be less effective under the enemy tower, it would contradict what they are supposed to do.
It may look confusing compared to other traps in the game. But that's just because Caitlyns are the only traps designed for sieging.
Their traps are meant for ambushing and waveclear/jungleclear.
If you want to siege, it is important that these traps don't trigger on minions and are not destroyable. Because sieging with something that is cleared so easily is pointless.
Synnx74 votesSo bear traps are a sieging tool. I start to question your sanity and logic
Chembaron Yamada6 votesCaitlyn has at times been the safe sieger and at times been the blood boil hypercarry. Let’s give her a clearer late-game identity from peer marksmen, focused on zone control to make her the premiere sieger.
That is a quote from a rioter about her marksman update (I can provide the source if you wish.). Caitlyn got reworked to give her the identity of the "premiere sieger" marksman. And she is meant to accomplish that by zone control.
The biggest zone control in her kit are obviously her traps. Just because they have the appearance of a bear trap (which is just a relict from her old design), doesn't mean they can't be supposed to be for sieging.
Being capable of placing 5 traps in 5 seconds lets Caitlyn can establish a difficult to breach perimeter from which to fight behind. This gives her excellent zone control for a siege or dragon/baron fight.
Another quote from the same rioter saying directly that her traps are meant to give her zone control for sieging. If you still think I am insane, you clearly refuse to accept reality. ^^
Synnx71 voteseither you or Riot's favoritism for champion balance and questionable decisions , same thing. Google what sieging actually means
Durzaka3 votesThe traps can be an effective sieging tool without being under turret.
Putting a line of traps just outside turret range is just as effective at sieging without being obnoxious.
Chembaron Yamada5 votesPlacing them outside of tower range doesn't really protect her from ranged counter attacks if she is going to attack the tower. Which kinda is the point of her sieging.
The5lacker1 votesIt's almost like we're arguing that a champion being 100% safe at sieging at all points in the game isn't good for the game, no matter how "intentional" it is.
Chembaron Yamada1 votesShe isn't safe 100% though. Flanking is a thing. Hard engages like Sion ult are a thing, too.
Let's not pretend that it is absolutely impossible to break a siege from Caitlyn. Otherwise, her win rate would be much higher.
coreym112 votesteemo shrooms aren't allowed to live they could give vision to teemo shrooms and let them live
undesirable team10 votesteemo shrooms aren't usually visible either, (;
ModAcademy Kayn4 votesTeemo shrooms also do a significant portion more than Caitlyn traps (by their lonesome).