Can one Rioter PLEASE speak up on this matter, it's not fair to other support roles... Just look at the supports being picked in worlds They are all tank supports Every game in solo queue is tank support VS tank support
Can we please establish this problem? Tank supports are elbowing out other support classes from being picked and quite honestly I find it oppressive.
Slamurai Jack5 votesUntil you can convince other roles to pick tanks, tank supports will always be best.
IcyPepper3 votesBut isn't jungle and top more effective tanks?
Certainly support tanks can, well, tank, but a top laner or jungler will have a greater income for their tank items.
Your statement worries me. Is the reason support tanks are "best" is due to other lanes not picking tanks often enough? Or is it because they're just strong compared to other support classes?
Slamurai Jack8 votesYes, they are. But good luck getting your top laner and jungler to play tanks. Your top laner is going to play 
and your jungler is going to play 
.
As for the advantages of tank supports; there is extreme value in having 1 less person you need to peel for. Squishy supports need to do work to be worth devoting resources to protecting. 
is the best example. The super hard engage of 
is another. Champions like 
have tons of great utility but can't really protect themselves, meaning that someone else on your team needs to play around that immobile, squishy support. Is their utility valuable enough for that? Sometimes. But in Solo Q, expecting a support to receive peel is very unlikely.
Point is, supports like 
are better in most games because they have the playmaking utility their teammates often lack while also being tanky enough to not require dedicated peel. Squishy supports can definitely find a place in this game but tanky supports that can initiate and make plays just tend to fill the gaps both Solo Q and competitive teams have. Honestly, so long as 2 roles every game are dedicated to squishy champions every game (mid and adc), squishy supports are often just going to be 1 more person that needs protecting.
freeformline1 votesThat's basically my take on it, and the reason why I am constantly irritated at my team. My favorite supports are Soraka and Orianna, but I rarely play them because my teammates rarely play anything other than AA carries these days. I just play Braum every game because he is always the best choice, and it is a little tiresome. I really liked the abundance of tanks the early Cinderhulk patches provided, since I could actually afford to play squishy supports.
Yaskamasandwich1 votesThat's basically my take on it, and the reason why I am constantly irritated at my team. My favorite supports are Soraka and Orianna, but I rarely play them because my teammates rarely play anything other than AA carries these days. I just play Braum every game because he is always the best choice, and it is a little tiresome. I really liked the abundance of tanks the early Cinderhulk patches provided, since I could actually afford to play squishy supports.
I usually still play tanks but the problem is tanks can't really tank now these days after the constant nerfs. At this point it's like Riot is beating a dead Tank horse. Some maybe viable sure, but it's hard to justify a tank over a juggernaut now especially with the right comp. Well other than the juggernauts being banned of course.
PokladnicaZla1 votesThe problem is tank-supports are forgiving.Some of them go deep in the def-tree+Tragons+Pots have enoguh sustain for them and their ADC,which just a tanky sustain bot combo.While I play with them(which is are) I still wonder why they don't have a GPS passive like the other 2 items.
Yaskamasandwich2 votesBut isn't jungle and top more effective tanks?
Certainly support tanks can, well, tank, but a top laner or jungler will have a greater income for their tank items.
Your statement worries me. Is the reason support tanks are "best" is due to other lanes not picking tanks often enough? Or is it because they're just strong compared to other support classes?
Sadly not anymore, it could be me but it seems Riot wants all tanks to become support. After Tanks had the limelight for what 3 months? Riot continually gutted them where patch 5.16 was the nail in the coffin. The Fiora, GP, Juggernaut remake, most top lane and jungler tank nerfs, AND the constant tank item nerfs on top of that pigeon holed essentially all tanks into support. I could be wrong but I recall a Rioter wanted this, used Sejuani as an example that a tank shouldn't have assassin qualities with group distortion and jump onto the carry and kill them without the carry having a chance (Wish I remember the post, sorry). Said it was unfair, and to a degree I can see that, but it doesn't excuse to force all tanks into support, because what then of the utility supports? Do they just get deleted? Do the tanks get deleted? Only Morgana and Janna are the surviving utility supports because they counter tank supports, which is unhealthy in of it self.
Josheheh5 votesproblem being everyone wants to be the carry (lets have a yi jungle and a riven top, we dont need no tanks) and nobody wants to soak some damn damage
TurquoiseYoshi1 votesExcept even in pros, where Malphite and Mao'Kai and Gragas and Tank'Sai aren't uncommon, tank supports are still the only used type.
Jingerbeardman1 votesI tank all the time... and typically carry my team, maybe not in score but without me they can not win lol.
Cynika4 votesSoraka is still really good. But people do still bitch at me for not going tank when I pick her...
Edit to say: bitch at me for not picking a Leona or thresh type deal, not saying that people want me to build tank items on soraka.
RedCyclone6 votesWhoever thinks going tankraka is a good idea is clinically insane
her heal costs % hp, so she gets gimped for buying more health
Penns3 votesHow about mr and armor tho? Also some hp isnt too bad on her..
IcyPepper1 votesIf you're really ahead, going randuins and warmogs is popular on her because it puts her just above the 3k hp threshold when she's at a high enough level.
TotalJerk1 votesPersonally I prefer items that give a resistance/AP mix like 
or 
.
If only wasn't so expensive and had such a shitty build path for supports, it makes my midgame shit when I go for it but it pays off handsomely come lategame. was a godsend for Soraka.
XIII Vanitas1 votesstep 1: get to 3k hp with 
step 2: enjoy your infinite free sustain as long as Soraka has mana
xFrostKnightx1 votesThat would be a 6th item purchase, lvl18 + Sightstone + warmohs = Just barely over 3k
Games tend to end before supports hit lvl18 unless you are willing to sacrifice Heal strength (ap) to get 3K HP early for infinite heal.
XIII Vanitas1 votesYou've forgotten that your third item (right after Sightstone) is usually 
, which gives 400 hp.
On top of that, you have to add hp/level seals (216 hp @ level 18), the "Veteran's Scars" defensive mastery (+36 hp), and the "Juggernaut" defensive mastery (+3% of your maximum health).
WIth this set up, you just need to be level 13 to reach 3k hp. You don't even care about buying AP, because your W will be on less than 2 seconds cooldown.
TurquoiseYoshi1 votes
Never out of mana
XIII Vanitas1 votesNah, 
is way better.
TurquoiseYoshi1 votes
Perfect.
Kat Head3 votesWhoever thinks going tankraka is a good idea is clinically insane
her heal costs % hp, so she gets gimped for buying more health
. Never recall again, yourself and your team is now immortal.
RedCyclone1 votesDont quite get how you would never recall again, nothing there sustains you really other then the health regen, considering your heal would cost you around 300hp each heal
Kat Head1 votesDont quite get how you would never recall again, nothing there sustains you really other then the health regen, considering your heal would cost you around 300hp each heal
Dude, 100 - 150 Hp regen per second. She can straight up sit in the back healing all day (it does not put her in combat) while regenerating back to full health before she can even attempt to cast her next heal.
Those two items basically remove the health cost of her heal (as long as she does not get into combat, which is super easy to avoid).
Sightless661 votesGetting a Warmog's is a decent option when you're playing against a poke team. If you're only being threatened by being whittled down and you can win a straight fight pretty easily, then ensuring that you and your team can't be poked down is a legitimate option.
Shield Anvil4 votesit's funny that i read this complaint the moment i watch a worlds game with kennen vs janna support^^ Besides, i don't consider this problem that bad. I agree that there are more tank supports picked than mages, but i also often see Lulu, Soraka, Morgana or even Brand/Vel'koz. It's not really worse than the proportion between assassins/APC's on mid or bruisers/APC's on top lane.
DemaciaClown4 votesI like how NO ONE here even mentioned karma :^(
Zavern1 votesWho?
DemaciaClown1 votesThe doctor.
OverpoweredSoap2 votesI like how NO ONE here even mentioned karma :^(
Because technically she was made to be a mid lane mage.
Also, whenever we get use to playing with the changes she gets, riot changes her again, it's kind of annoying tbh.
Chuck Charles3 voteswhat else can you pick for a role that has no gold income? you can't make it to where burst mages can go support and still deal massive damage because the whole idea of having a support is you are sacrificing gold income for the sake of 4 people being well farmed and able to carry.
supports generally are picked for what they offer at their base. with no gold and knowing they will not be pumping out much damage.
there are a few supports who do pretty solid damage from the support role like vel koz, brand, and zyra....but they are still significantly lesser versions of their solo lane counterparts. as they should be.
as for utility supports. I think they are very viable. they just aren't popular because being a squishy support is not the easiest thing in the world. Nami is still pretty decent. some of the very best peel in the game and good team fight. Soraka is amazing in lane and can take over a game if the team cannot get to her in a team fight or forgets about her altogether. Morgana's black shield, binding, and ulti are all great and you do see her in competitive play quite often because of that. Janna has always been a great choice for support. she is the disengage queen of league of legends and is picked when that is needed. all these require perfect positioning though and awareness in team fights are your abilities are crucial to saving your teammates and thats basically all you offer. tanks on the other hand are pretty straight forward, you CC the enemy team on an engage or protect your carry with it.
I think the only support in a bad spot right now is probably Sona as she has potential to deal shit tons of damage, but needs gold income to do so. in lane she is super squishy and her poke is no good if you get melted right back. her heal is weak and beyond her ultimate doesn't really offer much.
Lapis x33 votesWhen mage supports are strong in bot, usually they become too much. That's the problem with mage supports, they are never allowed to be strong because if they are, then they can deal lots of damage. I personally love mage supports, so I think they're fine, but a lot of people don't.
Usually they become pretty popular, called OP and then nerfed a lot. Sona, Morgana, Janna and Lulu are all examples of this...
RedCyclone4 votesEvery mage support has been in a position in the past where they are much better then they are now and WERE NOT OVERBEARING
Some picked up more popularity in a phase and got nerfed ONLY for that reason, AP supports get treated like shit while Tank supports are treated like gods
As for the whole "they can't be balanced" thing, that's pure bullshit, Riot have not touched up on utility ratios since they made them, THEY HAVE NOT EVEN TRIED TO BETTER AP SUPPORTS
jeremiahBIO2 votesi love lulu.
Hayaishi22 votesIf only mage supports weren't such balance abominations.
RedCyclone1 votesYou can thank utility ratios
That system fucked us hard, lets use the same resource that damage dealers use to increase our utility, BUT you can't have good ratios because of it AND your items can't have good AP values on them because mid mages will abuse them Seriously, ap supports are in limbo thanks to utility ratios
Tik1152 votesIts because Riot don't want their supports to go anywhere but bot, I mean how dare they have some degree of flexability right?
Hell I'm surprised Lulu hasn't been Olaf'd because she's played more in mid and top then support.
And this isn't a every champ thing, Ekko and Tahm are flexabile, Ekko can jungle top or mid Tahm can support jungle or top so for whatever reason Riot hates the squishy supports, I get we don't wanna see the same issue as Soraka mid but she's been reworked, that time has passed.
Silents4292 votesNo it's because it's damn near impossible to properly balance a champion for a support role and solo lane, and this has been evident for years now.
Tik1151 votesThen don't? the fact your playing a damaging squishy support should be the benefit of playing something that is so damn squishy.
If mid laners (Velk, Zyra, Annie) can go support and do well why can't Supports go mid and do well?
TurquoiseYoshi1 votesHah. Vel'koz doing well as a support.
And while we're at it, Annie support in Solo Queue is pretty funny, too.
alfavhunter2 votesSome possible fixes
new sight stones
Example, we have an hp sight stone
Now let's get a mans sight stone and an ap sight stone
Part of the reason for their dominance is supports will build sight stone and this heavily favors tank supports because it focuses on one of their favored stats, hp
While ap supports have to build it, and they don't get nearly tanks enough to actually benefit from it
Possible example
Arcane stone, provides 25 ap and gives the sight stone effect, takes 1 tome + combined cost to equal 800g total cost upgrades with one more tome and combined cost to become 50 ap and sight stone effect (5 ward stored now)
Another option is mana stone mana regen item, and combined cost to cost 800g for 200 mana and 25% mana regen and sight stone
Upgrades with one more mana crystal to 400 mana and 50% mana regen (5 stored limit)
And what will keep other classes from not getting these and keeping them? They are at best mid game items at full upgrade and can be replaced with other items to be more effective
Sure a non support could grab this for more vision (which isn't a bad thing) but they are still trading combat power for vision in this case
The reason supports would still get these is because it gives gold effective stats if you use the sight stone effect throughout the game instead of spamming wards
WookieJesuz1 votesMorgana is played a lot.
Lazypeon1001 votesI actually miss seing sona, nami, etc. I don't mind seeing thresh / braum / leo / ali, but when I see them almost every game? That is boring.
ZT Xperimentor1 votesI miss when you could play tanks top lane without your team flaming you.
TotalJerk1 votesTwo problems:
Champion Skin1 votesSpell thief is the best gold item Relic shield and the upgrades is the best for lane and coin just has the best active when you eventually get it (and well it giving movement speed is also pretty good)
TotalJerk1 votesTalisman is the best tier 3 support item, but coin isn't the best tier 1. Optimal usage of Spellthief burns through mana, and forces you to be aggressive for decent income, meanwhile it offers no sustain to you nor your adc. With relic, you punch a minion every few seconds and both you and your ADC get free health.
doiminat0r36001 votesBut for 2.95 a minute, she can show you a good time
