When Is Duskblade Going To Be Addressed?

Kivolan·Dec 20, 2017·28 votes·2,396 views

In general, is just way too strong. This item is nearly 100% gold efficient without its two passives.

Completely removing the Lethality might make it a much more situational item instead of core build (and sometimes first item) on half the AD roster.

In a snowbally game where damage is already high, this thing only adds to the problem.

If nothing else, the ward spotting passive seriously needs to be fixed, as it's been legitimately broken for months now. Even when the passive is on cooldown you can still tell if you've been spotted by a ward by checking for the invisibility passive. Remove that icon while the passive is on cooldown and you'd be fine.

52 Comments

Built to TyltDec 20, 201718 votes

Never. The answer you're looking for (and already knew), is 'never'.

War God TeemoDec 21, 201717 votes

Um actually,

"Gold Value 55 attack damage = Gold 1925 10% cooldown reduction = Gold 266.67 18 lethality = Gold 405 Total Gold Value = Gold 2596.67 Gold Efficiency*

Duskblade of Draktharr item Duskblade of Draktharr is ** 89.54%** gold efficient without its passive effects." (costs 2900)

--http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Duskblade_of_Draktharr

AazzlanoDec 21, 201711 votes

18 lethality is 405 gold? So 18 lethality is worth 55g more than a long sword? LOL. Goes to show how BS AD items are when you are able to derive a 405g value for 18 lethality out of I guess a Serrated Dirk's extremely low cost, and use that to justify the gold efficiency of other AD items. Let's not forget also that Long Sword was arbitrarily reduced in cost over the past seasons which also reduces the "value" of AD to 35g per point instead of 400g. Even though the value of it hasn't gone down at all, just the price. And this is used to justify things like Serrated Dirk (1100g cost, 1000g worth of AD by the real value, so 10 Lethality+the passive costs 100g in reality) having way more stats/effects than it should for its cost, but that's ok because the AD on it is valued at way less because of the Long Sword change, so they can cram more stats in and say it's balanced. And then use that item's ridiculously low cost to set the 'value' of lethality and further justify other item's 'balance' because the stats on them aren't valued that much in gold, so their gold efficiency appears to be WAY lower than the item's actual impact with the stats that you actually get.

A good start would be Long Sword being reverted to 400g, and all items adjusted to have the same gold efficiency as now by losing AD or having a price increase. Easier to show how stupid 18 Lethality being the same cost as a Long Sword anyway, when it's at that pricepoint.

Charlie Loves UDec 21, 20173 votes

But you don't understand that items when combined should be more cost effiicient than the raw stats themselves.

Serrated Dirk is a good buy at 1100 gold and it should be. its a combine item. not a fully completed item, but still a combine item. ANY item is decent when combined.

Compare it to warhammer at 1100 gold. Warhammer gives you 10% cdr which is 247.5 gold in value for upgrading. you get 25 AD which is worth 875 gold. Warhammer is worth 1122.5 gold in stats and costs 1100 gold. so its more than 100% gold efficient as a combine item.

Serrated dirk is 25 attack damage and 10 lethality which is 875 gold in ad(again) and 225 gold in lethality. and the passive. Serrated Dirk is worth 1100 gold in raw stats without passive. So the passive is indeed a cherry on top sort of thing, but the damage is honestly negligible since it applies only on spells and only after you kill a minion or enemy champ. It makes it a strong early buy for lane, which its meant to be since you are not going to scale as hard as you would with crit. and for champs who don't need crit, it's not so insanely gold efficient that its overpowering to other very cost efficient combine ap items.

Its normal.

Lethality is not as broken as people think it is. It's just that Riot fucked up by removing base armor from mages so AD assassins are obnoxious in the mid lane and jungle and they fucked up by not putting MR on squishies so now mages/poke are obnoxious in the bot lane.

AazzlanoDec 22, 20171 votes

I think you really don't understand at all Lethality's gold value is derived from Serrated Dirk. If they increased the price of Long Sword to 400g, you could then say it has 1000g of AD and 100g of lethality, so it's worth 1100g still. If they reduced to price of Long Sword to 200g, you could say it has 500g of AD and 600g of lethality, so it's worth 1100g. That logic makes no sense. The point is that the price of AD is arbitrarily lowered which allows people like you to justify the existence of these items by saying they aren't that gold efficient. If Long Sword was never massively buffed like it was, with their current 'values' for Lethality, the efficiency of Serrated Dirk would be:

Serrated Dirk: 1000g of AD, '225g of Lethality' 1225g for 1100g 111% efficient + a passive for no reason other than because it's an AD items so why not? they really deserve it!

The point is that this item only exists because AD is hilariously cheap because of arbitrary cost reductions (because AD is HEAVILY favored by Riot) and the cost reduction to Long Sword is able to 'justify' the cramming of so many extra stats onto it for only 100g more of cost. Literally for 100g you get 10 Lethality and the passive LOL.

Imagine they reduced Long Sword again to 300g. Then it would have "750g of AD", be missing 350g in stats, so what would they do to fix that, make it 15 Lethality? Or add 5 more AD to make it gold efficient again? For what? Literally NOTHING was lost, it's just the PRICE of AD being lowered while the VALUE stays the same. And since the item is so ridiculously cheap, the 'value' of Lethality looks low since it doesn't cost that much to get it. So then in other AD items that have lethality, it only adds a tiny bit of gold value to it so they can cram MORE stats into it and make it still seem balanced.

Another way to look at it is, if they just randomly increased the price of Amplifying Tome/Blasting Wand/Needlessly Large Rod, without changing any other items or increasing the AP or anything, you could then argue that AP is 'valued higher' and that all the higher tier AP items are 'broken as fuck' because they are 'super gold efficient' because all that AP is suddenly priced higher and their gold efficiency is crazy high because you are valuing the AP at a higher amount. Like if Amp Tome/etc. suddenly costed 20% more, the gold efficiency of Deathcap would suddenly increase by 20%, wow rito nerf pls AP too broken. And then every single AP item gets nerfed into oblivion.

And the opposite of that happened for AD items for NO reason. Long Sword's cost was reduced for NO reason and as a result, every single item that has AD has been massively buffed to maintain a ridiculous gold efficiency. Not to mention that their gold efficiency is generally substantially higher on AD items to begin with, even with the lower cost/'value'. Not to mention that the fact that you are only getting 10 AD opposed to 20 AP for an Amp Tome is irrelevant because many AD champs have ridiculous 160-200% AD ratios on EACH of passives/standard abilities, and more on their Ults on some champs as well. Like if Talon all in's an enemy, even though his E does no damage and is simply for mobility, his ratios total 735% bonus AD + 100% base AD with only a SINGLE autoattack. Really not sure why AD is so cheap in this case. Oh and guess what? The bonus AD they build STILL isn't even the best part, the Lethality on items is what makes champs like this have even more ridiculous damage. Wait how much does that cost? 22g a point? LOL!

BALANCED.

Whisper87Dec 21, 20171 votes

I think rather than increasing the cost of the long sword by 50g, you instead increase the combine cost of Serrated Dirk from 400g to 500g. Here's why:

We all know lethality items are not scaling items. They don't do well in the late game, especially when you itemize against it. So they have low cost and high efficiency. Dirk is supposed to be very strong as a first buy with high potential to create a kill or at least force someone back. Nerfing the stats on Dirk isn't good because then you are stopping assassins from being assassins right?

So the way you combat an assassin is abuse your range or utility advantage to harass them in lane and/or push them in. If you make the assassin have to stick in lane for an extra wave, it's more opportunity to force them back on bad buy, potentially before they have enough for Dirk which puts a dent in their very smooth early-mid power curve.

Right now it's just a touch too easy for an assassin to get to their early game power spike. Buy the time you burn through all their pots or harass them down through Doran's shield, they usually have 1100g because of melee assassins having ranged skills and mobility. If you ARE able put real kill pressure on to them early or harass them out of lane, it's probably because you're playing really far forward and are just lucky because the jungle didn't come gank you yet.

So a small 100G increase to Dirk's cost allows a window for a caster to abuse their pre-6 advantage without playing recklessly aggressive. It needs to be at least theoretically possible to force an assassin out of lane before they save up for the Dirk, assuming of course that both laners are relatively equal in skill.

War God TeemoDec 26, 20171 votes

But cloth armor is 15 for 300g. If you factor in that lethality is scaling (worth about 0.6 armor pen level 1) then you can negate the effectiveness of an entire pen item using 1 cloth armor. In reality, I think lethality should be worth about the same as armor. Basically, I think prices are fine where they're at. The problem isn't the items, the problem is some champions have strong abilities to snowball, especially if they're highly mobile. But that's just the nature of the game.

AR URFDec 26, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=War God Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lfvvIYwA,comment-id=000900000002,timestamp=2017-12-26T05:16:29.351+0000)

But cloth armor is 15 for 300g. If you factor in that lethality is scaling (worth about 0.6 armor pen level 1) then you can negate the effectiveness of an entire pen item using 1 cloth armor. In reality, I think lethality should be worth about the same as armor. Basically, I think prices are fine where they're at. The problem isn't the items, the problem is some champions have strong abilities to snowball, especially if they're highly mobile. But that's just the nature of the game.

That's why lethality by design is just horrible. Tanks out-sustain everything and assassins and ADCs just get one shot.

War God TeemoDec 27, 20171 votes

Idk, I like the lethality design. They have it so it scales, making it 60% as strong early game. If you're an ADC and the assassin is starting to get a little too strong, get a chain vest (800g, 40 armor) and it'll nullify the effects of two entire pen items. Three items if it's still around 20-30 minutes in.

edit: if you're not feeling bronze (:P) you could alternatively get ninja tabi.

AR URFDec 27, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=War God Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lfvvIYwA,comment-id=00090000000200000000,timestamp=2017-12-27T04:50:35.982+0000)

Idk, I like the lethality design. They have it so it scales, making it 60% as strong early game. If you're an ADC and the assassin is starting to get a little too strong, get a chain vest (800g, 40 armor) and it'll nullify the effects of two entire pen items. Three items if it's still around 20-30 minutes in.

edit: if you're not feeling bronze (:P) you could alternatively get ninja tabi.

You also just reminded me that lethality pushes for that early win. When people start getting a little armor, it gets harder and harder for assassins to kill. Get 100 armor on an adc and most likely you'll kill the shitters.

PoskeDec 21, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=War God Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lfvvIYwA,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-12-21T02:12:15.630+0000)

Um actually,

"Gold Value 55 attack damage = Gold 1925 10% cooldown reduction = Gold 266.67 18 lethality = Gold 405 Total Gold Value = Gold 2596.67 Gold Efficiency*

Duskblade of Draktharr item Duskblade of Draktharr is ** 89.54%** gold efficient without its passive effects." (costs 2900)

--http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Duskblade_of_Draktharr

I would estimate its gold efficiency with passives to 175%

War God TeemoDec 26, 20171 votes

Why? The ability just gives you half an additional auto the next time you attack and it helps remove trinkets. If an item was made with only those two abilities, I would most definitely not buy it for 2465 gold. I honestly wouldn't even pay 500 for that. But then, I guess it depends on the champ you're playing.

kaironenDec 20, 201711 votes

I just think duskblade should change into a completely different item. Nerfing it will help solve its balance issue but honestly, the item itself is not interactive. item 3142 gives you more roam potential through it's out of combat ms and active ms. This makes assassins feel the need to make plays around the map using this item. item 3814 (which honestly I don't see people use very often), gives you a nice niche active which helps you go in a fight without fear of getting ultimate by a Leona or getting cced by another source. What does item 3147 bring? Damage, literally just, damage. No matter how you buff it or nerf it, I will always consider this a toxic design. It does not feel good to use, it just feels like you can 1 shot someone. If riot could change this design to make assassins feel like they need to do something to use the most out of the item, it could make every lethality item feel like they have their own niche. This could be done through having an item that focusses around item 3147 2nd passive which makes you able to see wards near you for around 8s.

I am not an assassin player by any means (pretty much my least played subclass, other than maybe juggernaut) but I feel like assassins should feel like their playstyle changes a little based on the item they buy, not just having a lethality item for literally only doing damage (sorry about duskblades second passive and the hidden passive where you basically know a place isn't warded, but I think people only buy this to do more damage).

If assassins are too weak due to changing the item, then nerfing supports and their items could solve this.

YumaS2AstralDec 21, 20174 votes

{quoted}

I just think duskblade should change into a completely different item.

I just want old Duskblade back. The one that was a mini Zed ult that did damage based on a percentage of your missing health. It wasn't tied to vision/unvisiblity, yet it wasn't considered broken by anyone. It helped AD assassins by ensuring that your target would be killed, with the counterplay being using heals or shields before the passive killed you.

kaironenDec 21, 20172 votes

I might be wrong but did it scale off of missing hp too? If it did, I think it was a better design then the current duskblade. It might have been changed because it felt too much like a mini zed ultimate. Also, qss kind of made that item useless at the time before it was changed :P. However, we don't have that qss interaction now. Duskblade honestly just needs to be something you play around of, not just some raw damage that happens if you were unseen. If you have to all in to use it well since it has a cd, it would be a better design (I believe the old one had a cd, not sure though).

YumaS2AstralDec 21, 20172 votes

The incarnation of Duskblade before this new one was the same thing, except that it did true damage. However, it did LESS damage than now. However, it would scale with lethality, which would force you into using lethality runes and discourage people that don't stack lethality from purchasing it.

The Yetii RiderDec 21, 20176 votes

"If assassins are too weak due to changing the item"

They won't be too weak. They just won't have any items to buy. I do not understand this argument made by the boards. Lethality as a concept was introduced specifically so AD assassins would have a core item set. Every other class except divers and AP assassins has a core item set. You have items that emphasize your strengths so that you can scale with gold to an appropriate power level that is predictable across certain game times without being character-specific. Not having items specially tailored for you is A) inconsistent, since almost every other class has them and B) forces Riot to balance the curving out of a class's power level on their individual kits, which is far less predictable and leads to situations where you have champions like Vi who are just so much better at diving than other divers that it results in Vi being too strong when divers as a class are desirable.

So no, we do not need to remove an assassin item from the game. And no, an item giving assassins raw damage is not inherently bad. That's all item 3031 gives. It's all item 3089 gives. It's all that item 1400 , item 3036 , and item 3100 give. Having an item that gives a large spike of damage is good for assassins, who are intended to overtake the mid game and be powerful, whereas mages become much more useful later when team fighting starts. This is especially true for the majority of assassins, who are not mid laners but are junglers, and thus need a huge burst of power very early on to take their early game advantage before they quickly become irrelevant because all they can do is burst down one champion, compared to a tank jungler who can easily win an entire fight for his team.

kaironenDec 21, 20172 votes

Duskblade is an item that should be a contender with ghostblade as a rush item. Currently, it is pretty much always picked first and not ghostblade. The issue I see with duskblade is that it doesn't change an assassin's playstyle. Imho, an assassin item should be something that gives general assassin level damage and also have a niche that the assassin should play around. Ghostblade has this, and so does edge of knight. Duskblade currently doesn't since in pretty much every solution, it will always either be equal in effectiveness of the other 2 or better (only way it won't be better is if you have a long duration stun like a perfectly timed thresh hook once you go in). Although I agree that raw damage items technically isn't bad, it can be if it doesn't change how you build or how you play. If you go item 3031 , you are pretty much forced to build crit (unless I suppose you are gangplank or rengar, but they are exceptions, which on rengar I'm not sure but it does seem to work with his ultimate). You need to build 1 or 2 items to go for item 3089 . On item 1400 , it's honestly not an interesting item since it only gives raw stats but it at least forces you to play aggressively early and you sometimes aren't forced to get it since cinderhulk/titanic is a good combo on some champs that go warrior. item 3036 Is only really good vs tanks, it's a core item and it's a niche item so I would honestly not count it as a true core item. item 3100 is also a niche/core item, it's a niche item on champs like ahri and leblanc, but a core item (or niche) on kassadin and akali. It's also core on Tf and ekko I believe. Lichbane does force you to play differently on some champs since you need to aa to proc it (which most champs only use spells). This is less of a case on kassadin, akali, tf, and ekko, but ahri/leblanc have to autoattack and go for a more bursty build to use this properly, which adds item diversity to them. I think that lethality items should look more like item 3086 items. I know zeal items are adc crit items, but hurricane, rapidfire, shiv, and phantom dancer all have their niche. An adc will usually only have 2 but they all give small changes to an adc's play pattern (shiv for waveclear, rapidfire for safe or poke, phantom dancer for teamfight survivability or dualing potential, hurricane for waveclear and teamfight potential). Although some of the items might be a bit too strong (the shiv/rapidfire combo) they all have their niche. I think assassin items should be similar but for assassins. Also, I think assassins should have more utility in general, maybe in their items but getting 1 shotted is a frustrating feeling. Feeling entirely useless as an assassin because all they really need to do is 1 shot a carry is also a frustrating feeling. I personally do not know how to resolve this but this seems to be an issue that has been there for a while.

ShablagooDec 21, 20172 votes

Ghostblade is not a contender because of the inherent lack of burst ad assassins have in this game, for example someone like Talon before preseason was able to rush ghostblade instead of db, because they could pressure other lanes like a jg and because his dmg isnt really delayed but conditional he is able to rush it. However somone like Zed has to rush db because his dmg is rather delayed same with shaco as well. But then champions like kha and rengar use it, Rengars dmg wasnt actually delyed at all if you play him you will see, kha's dmg is conditional but with his ult and db he becomes a auto attack dealer when he should be using his q's to deal more dmg. Duskblade is an unhealthy design but its because they messed up the assassins rework they needed to compensate.

yoshi2790Dec 21, 20175 votes

Actually item 3100 also gives movement speed, mana and cdr....

ChaddyFantomeDec 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I just think duskblade should change into a completely different item. Nerfing it will help solve its balance issue but honestly, the item itself is not interactive. gives you more roam potential through it's out of combat ms and active ms. This makes assassins feel the need to make plays around the map using this item. (which honestly I don't see people use very often), gives you a nice niche active which helps you go in a fight without fear of getting ultimate by a Leona or getting cced by another source. What does bring? Damage, literally just, damage. No matter how you buff it or nerf it, I will always consider this a toxic design. It does not feel good to use, it just feels like you can 1 shot someone. If riot could change this design to make assassins feel like they need to do something to use the most out of the item, it could make every lethality item feel like they have their own niche. This could be done through having an item that focusses around 2nd passive which makes you able to see wards near you for around 8s.

I am not an assassin player by any means (pretty much my least played subclass, other than maybe juggernaut) but I feel like assassins should feel like their playstyle changes a little based on the item they buy, not just having a lethality item for literally only doing damage (sorry about duskblades second passive and the hidden passive where you basically know a place isn't warded, but I think people only buy this to do more damage).

If assassins are too weak due to changing the item, then nerfing supports and their items could solve this.

I see you are a fan of using buzzterms. In general, i disagree completely with what you posted here.

DisulfiramDec 21, 20171 votes

That's actually a very good idea... though with the zombie ward rune, it is still annoying for the enemy (as it feels they're just warding the whole map for you).

What about removing both passives and just adding a new one that simply blackouts wards, without telling you if there are or where? You wouldn't be able to alert your team, clear the wards, nor replace them with your own zombie, but you'd still be able to gank undetected.

Also the enemy team could still see that the ward is blackouted if they move their window over the ward, so it would have some counterplay. (Mid ward is blackout and the enemy doesn't have oracle -> mid knows there's an assassin in the bush).

Troll for TrumpDec 20, 201710 votes

This item is nearly 100% gold efficient

Great, and many items are >100% gold efficient and/or have passives

Completely removing the Lethality might make it a much more situational item instead of core build (and sometimes first item) on half the AD roster.

It isn't core build on half of the roster, and basically all the users that aren't assassins are abusing it. Duskblade, intended for assassins, has lethality for assassins. Removing lethality from the item is punishing the intended users harder than others, because assassins need lethality to function more than ADCs or the bruiser pseudo-assassins.

Another case of an item being abused by nonintended users. Punish the users, not the item, and not the intended users

THE RlVER KlNGDec 20, 201711 votes

It's core on every AD assassin, caster, and half the ADC roster.

It's simply the best out of a long line of broken and overtuned AD items. There is nowhere even near to close an AP equivalent to Duskblade, which offers an AD caster literally everything they could want and more with practically no downside.

Mages need mana, CDR, AP, etc. They also need some sort of armor vs champs like Zed and Talon and Kha'Zix. if they go towards Morello, they lose all protection. If they go towards Zhonya's, they have no mana sustain and noticeably less damage.

Troll for TrumpDec 22, 20171 votes

It's core on every AD assassin

Intended

caster

Need you to define this. I can only think of GP and Jayce.

half the ADC roster.

ADCs abuse everything and get them nerfed. I'm done with them. Duskblade is core on 4 adcs (Jhin, Varus, Quinn, MF), and of those only Quinn gets Duskblade before youmuus (since she basically plays like an assassin). If duskblade were so busted, it would make sense for them to get it first.

Jhin has always gotten lethality, even before duskblade changes because it worked better on him than crit. Whenever Jhin has to build crit, it's because lethality ADCs are doing really poorly, and Jhin tends to end up doing poorly in those metas as a result.

Varus's poke style is just more fitting with lethality, not necessarily because of duskblade being OP.

MF has been using lethality+cleaver for a long time.

It's simply the best out of a long line of broken and overtuned AD items. There is nowhere even near to close an AP equivalent to Duskblade, which offers an AD caster literally everything they could want and more with practically no downside.

Apples to oranges, it doesn't really work. There's no AD equivalent of Rabadon's or Morello's for instance, because of how spread out the classes are for AD.

Mages need mana, CDR, AP, etc. They also need some sort of armor vs champs like Zed and Talon and Kha'Zix. if they go towards Morello, they lose all protection. If they go towards Zhonya's, they have no mana sustain and noticeably less damage.

Mages are immobile carries. Assassins are supposed to shut down carries, and do especially well vs immobile ones. While there may be a problem in how hard the assassins are stomping mages, it should come as no surprise that mages generally should be doing poorly against assassins.

Assassins are also pretty locked into their options. Take hexdrinker and shutdown their roam and ganks into non-Ap lanes. Taking away duskblade gets rid of a SIGNIFICANT amount of their burst dmg. If you have to nerf duskblade's burst dmg, assassins need some other way to increase dmg. Missing youmuus early on an assassin makes you lose out on an irreplacabl eamount of flexibility

goneªłºDec 21, 20175 votes

Completely removing the Lethality might make it a much more situational item instead of core build (and sometimes first item) on half the AD roster.

thank god Riot doesn't balance according to Boards

AR URFDec 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

thank god Riot doesn't balance according to Boards

I agree to disagree. If we had stronger towers and got rid of tank meta than that would be quite nice.

TiltoverEnforcerDec 20, 20174 votes

The thing about completed items is that they're supposed to be over 100% gold efficient, or else there would be no reason to complete them.

NahuiDec 20, 20174 votes

The hidden passive, so to speak, of it detecting wards when actual ward passive is on cd is a one time proc. Once you have dusk blade ready, you can't check for wards anymore. And by taking away the icon, how do we know if we have the passive? Do we just go in and hope we have it? That's ridiculous.

The item is fine and makes it possible for AD assassins to actually assassinate. When you attach 12% damage reduction to PD, burst reduction to DD, ninja tabi with 30 armor, and supports with spells and masteries and a multitude of defensive items to protect ADCs, maybe it's not so unreasonable to provide some damage to the class meant to be an answer to them.

YumaS2AstralDec 20, 20173 votes

{quoted}

The item is fine and makes it possible for AD assassins to actually assassinate.

More like "this item broke AD assassins and made them be nerfed to the point that they need this item to actually assassinate".

GayFluffyUnicornDec 21, 20171 votes

KivolanDec 21, 20176 votes

{quoted}

The hidden passive, so to speak, of it detecting wards when actual ward passive is on cd is a one time proc. Once you have dusk blade ready, you can't check for wards anymore. And by taking away the icon, how do we know if we have the passive? Do we just go in and hope we have it? That's ridiculous.

The item is fine and makes it possible for AD assassins to actually assassinate. When you attach 12% damage reduction to PD, burst reduction to DD, ninja tabi with 30 armor, and supports with spells and masteries and a multitude of defensive items to protect ADCs, maybe it's not so unreasonable to provide some damage to the class meant to be an answer to them.

No, it's not a one time proc. If you are detected by a ward when the actual ward detection is on cool down, the icon for the damage passive disappears. You can always tell if you are unseen or not once you buy this item, which is a huge amount of hidden power.

This item DOES give damage. A huge amount of it, as well as a huge slow, albeit short. Adding that much lethality on to it is ridiculous. It's like if Luden's Echo gave magic pen.

kaironenDec 21, 20171 votes

I am pretty sure that riot has every lethality item (except serated dirk) at the same lethality amount to make players pick a choice of lethality items based on their active use (ghost blade ms, edge of knight banshee shield, and duskblade passive ward reveal and bonus damage). If they had different lethality amounts, it could confuse people and it would also make it less clean overall (one item might look op in terms of their active use but the item might be balanced or weak based on their lethality number). If Riot will nerf/buff the lethality items, they will most likely buff every item's ad or lethality, or they will nerf/buff the individual active uses. I can't speak for them but I'm pretty sure they would try to keep the shop clean so there is less of a number mess. Also, lethality items are meant to give early to mid game spikes instead of late game spikes. Mages have item 3089 which spikes their damage for late game. Assassins do not have that. They only really have raw damage on their items. Comparing 2 classes in their items is a little hard since both function differently.

NahuiDec 23, 20171 votes

I'm fairly certain the duskblade passive is always up regardless of if you're detected or not. Once you get it, you can't lose it unless used or else as soon as you engaged on someone it would disappear. I just tested it and I had my duskblade up. The red icon and everything. I walked into a bush I knew was warded. Icon remained. It only indicates a ward if you're in enemy vision, you walk into a bush to reproc duskblade, and it doesn't reproc. Once it's proc'd and ready, it's on for good until used.

bbQsauçeDec 20, 20173 votes

[deleted]

WimbledofyDec 20, 20176 votes

Without lethality there is no power spike. Lethality is what gives the powerspike,

War God TeemoDec 21, 20171 votes

Then just buy 6 serrated dirks?

SweedishGunnerDec 21, 20172 votes

Unique Passives buddy.

War God TeemoDec 21, 20171 votes

Damn you're right, didn't notice it was under a unique passive

ThilmerDec 21, 20173 votes

You know, nobody asked for Duskblade, and the item is always overpowered for one reason or another.

It's the graphic definition of "screw balance because YOLO".

gabetheguyDec 20, 20172 votes

Khazix heheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh

ShablagooDec 20, 20172 votes

Remove the lethality? You know its suppose to be a core item on ad assassins right? I think a better change would be to make it melee only or reduce the dmg again for range champions. I dont see a problem with assassins being able to assassinate, because without this item they would be anyway.

KivolanDec 21, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Remove the lethality? You know its suppose to be a core item on ad assassins right? I think a better change would be to make it melee only or reduce the dmg again for range champions. I dont see a problem with assassins being able to assassinate, because without this item they would be anyway.

But it already offers vision and extra damage through its passive. What's wrong with assassins needing to build more than one item to do what they want to do? AP itemization dictates that casters have to build around assassins, while other classes don't have their items change in the slightest despite who they play against.

ShablagooDec 21, 20171 votes

Because armor pen is the main stat for ad assasins? Just like cdr or mana is for mages? It is what makes them assassins, it gives them the ability to kill low armor squishy priority targets which is what they are meant to do. Also why are you even comparing the two is this another ap itemization sucks compared to ad thread or is it about duskblade?

GayFluffyUnicornDec 21, 20171 votes

Making it melee only would be the first decent step towards a balanced game.

Christ SuperstarDec 21, 20172 votes

Never, it's not an AP item!

LordGeovanniDec 21, 20171 votes

The would have to make that melee only nerf the damage passive buff the ad and remove the ward clearing passive assassins shouldnt have access to that on a damage item.

VoraciousXDec 26, 20171 votes

The only thing I don't like about it is rushing zhonya's and still getting bursted down at 6 by a 0/3 Zed once he completes it when he's been in vision of me the entire time.

Miku Hime samaDec 26, 20171 votes

I don't understand. Supports aren't allowed to buy Oracle's Elixir or place multiple pink wards. Yet assassins are free to have an infinite Oracle passive on a core must-buy item with overloaded stats.

It should be no wonder why players constantly say supports are underpowered and assassins anti-fun. Rito blatantly shows favoritism for assassins. Zed was their #LC$BigPlay$ poster boy for literally years.