What The Hell Are These Celerity Changes?

Kivolan·Jun 7, 2018·105 votes·22,271 views

Movement speed lowered from 3% to 1.5% Adaptive AD increased from 4.8% to 9.6% Adaptive AP increased from 8% to 16%

Half the movement speed for double the damage, effectively turning this rune into a must-have option (and honestly kind of broken on a certain horse) for champions with movement speed buffs, while meanwhile rendering it completely useless for the immobile champions that ACTUALLY need the movement speed. Sure, we have Transcendence, but I find it to be a bit of a noob trap since the extra movement speed from Celerity was much more beneficial to the woes of an immobile mage.

But, you know, we definitely need champions to deal more damage, so let's go ahead and buff that portion of the program by increasing the AP and AD ratios.

Seriously, do you people even play your own game? :/

101 Comments

HonestJohnTheConJun 8, 201839 votes

I agree that the changes are stupid.

But you can't say the Boards didn't have it coming with them complaining about how Sorcery was the movement speed tree.

Teridax68Jun 8, 20187 votes

I mean, if anything, this is only a continuation of the problem. It's still a rune that provides movement speed, and that relies on movement speed as a source of power, so it's not really about empowering abilities or manipulating resources, so much as still about movement speed.

VoraciousXJun 8, 201813 votes

{quoted}

I agree that the changes are stupid.

But you can't say the Boards didn't have it coming with them complaining about how Sorcery was the movement speed tree.

Riot basically reinforced this when they removed Ultimate Hat and made Nimbus Cloak. No immobile mage is gonna be using that rune, and most mobile ones won't. It's specifically designed for Wukong, Yi, Kennen, Nasus, etc.

{quoted}

TBH this is fine.

Celerity has been kind of a ... "Meh, nothing better" choice for quite a while. It tends to give like 5 AD / 12 AP or so late game (I.E. a non-existent amount), and is just the equivalent of old MS quints in that the constant movement bonus is better than some weaker, situational, utility options.

This is going to give it an identity. Riot wants all runes to have a niche; specific use cases where they're good, and others where they aren't. It's now becoming a noticeable boon to champions who go fast, but becoming far less attractive as a general "walk around the map a bit quicker" pick for everyone and their mother.

Rune's Reforged was supposed to be about having runes to suit your playstyles, not having one rune be best for every champion so that they take it every time. Also this is gonna give my Kat probably about 22-24 AP level 3 when she uses W JSYK.

MetalGearTeemoJun 9, 20181 votes

That feeling when Phase rush is still Garen 's best keystone ... Ultimate hat? gone. ... Celerity? gone. Will Scorch be next?

Z3SleeperJun 8, 20183 votes

Riot: Ha! Gotteeem!

LegitBusinessmanJun 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I agree that the changes are stupid.

But you can't say the Boards didn't have it coming with them complaining about how Sorcery was the movement speed tree.

I haven't seen people saying that at all.

I've seen them wanting stronger turrets but they did the opposite.

When is it opposite day and when isn't it? If we can figure out Riots pattern and bitch in the appropriate manner maybe we can fix the game?

HonestJohnTheConJun 9, 20181 votes

That's the nature of the beast. I notice that Riot DOES listen to the Boards... just 4-6 months later, and by that time people are complaining about something else.

The boards are right in most cases about fixing the "100-0" meta, but that's because it's been around for a while. If I were Riot, I would be hesitant to trust the Boards, but the meta's not changing significantly at all, so I would give it a shot this time.

ISeeDumbPeopleJun 8, 201814 votes

more dmg with predator... okay... lol.

Zeppelins circusJun 8, 201823 votes

{quoted}

more dmg with predator... okay... lol.

The next thing I realize, Riot will nerf Hecarim so he will use all his mana on 4 Q's. Like always when Hecarim rears his head.

SangreDeNocheJun 8, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zeppelins circus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ElEIUnn1,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-08T00:47:52.749+0000)

The next thing I realize, Riot will nerf Hecarim so he will use all his mana on 4 Q's. Like always when Hecarim rears his head.

He's got four legs so that makes sense to me. Like urgot, he tires one out bwahaha. [sg-miss-fortune]

only zhuleJun 8, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zeppelins circus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ElEIUnn1,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-08T00:47:52.749+0000)

The next thing I realize, Riot will nerf Hecarim so he will use all his mana on 4 Q's. Like always when Hecarim rears his head.

Fuck Hecarim and his ability to ult through stuns.

OleandervineJun 8, 20183 votes

He can't ult through stuns unless you're stunning him while he's mid ult, as his legion of horsemen is a projectile he's firing while he's using his charge. 90% of the champions in the game won't immediately shut down abilities they're in the middle of casting if you stun them unless they're channeled. See Garen, Lux.

only zhuleJun 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

He can't ult through stuns unless you're stunning him while he's mid ult, as his legion of horsemen is a projectile he's firing while he's using his charge. 90% of the champions in the game won't immediately shut down abilities they're in the middle of casting if you stun them unless they're channeled. See Garen, Lux.

They really should immediately shut down. It's really stupid that a champion gets to finish their entire queued up rotation if you stop them in the middle of it. Again made worse by the fact that the duration of the CC is still ticking down while their animation finishes, like it's probably only a quarter of a second or something, but that is still a quarter of a second they should have been locked down.

OleandervineJun 8, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ElEIUnn1,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-06-08T17:57:41.780+0000)

They really should immediately shut down. It's really stupid that a champion gets to finish their entire queued up rotation if you stop them in the middle of it. Again made worse by the fact that the duration of the CC is still ticking down while their animation finishes, like it's probably only a quarter of a second or something, but that is still a quarter of a second they should have been locked down.

It's not a "queued rotation" though. It's an ability they've activated, just like a shield, just like a speed burst, just like any other kind of self defensive ability or self-buff. CC doesn't shut off abilities that are already in progress, and it would seriously be overpowered to the extreme if it did.

only zhuleJun 8, 20182 votes

{quoted}

It's not a "queued rotation" though. It's an ability they've activated, just like a shield, just like a speed burst, just like any other kind of self defensive ability or self-buff. CC doesn't shut off abilities that are already in progress, and it would seriously be overpowered to the extreme if it did.

I think we have VERY different opinions on how powerful CC should be. Also i use the term queued rotation because i'm pretty sure that certain champions can active abilities that will go off after they finish a previous animation. Yes technically they have "already activated" the ability but it won't go off for a tiny bit since the character has to finish the previous animation first. You got stunned during the previous animation? Congrats that doesn't matter you still get to finish your "previously activated" ability and that might be enough to kill the person who stunned you.

There is also the issue that CC is getting harder and harder to hit as many champions become more and more mobile. So when you DO hit them with the CC, it's kind of a bitch that they still get to finish their actions while burning through your CC.

Chembaron YamadaJun 9, 20181 votes

CC doesn't shut off abilities that are already in progress

Not really true -> channels

OleandervineJun 11, 20181 votes

Keep up with the conversation. I mentioned channels above before I specifically started discussing what the other guy wanted - CC interrupting all spells.

Miku AppendJun 8, 20187 votes

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KqcFwOTZeYA/WrNGVw8FHzI/AAAAAAAA774/8ISrtc3EHmgwIC1OJJKmNQ7X3XKZ5iQ3wCLcBGAs/s200/a693627a11a11aa0.png

CasterGilgameshJun 8, 20182 votes

https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/580/1*NZaNH0SFe67HtTxKrPXkAg.png

BumperlaneJun 8, 20186 votes

They want to add more damage to 200IQ one-combo champions because they're brain dead fucking morons who think that's fun and exciting game play.

MorganFreemanBotJun 8, 20185 votes

TBH this is fine.

Celerity has been kind of a ... "Meh, nothing better" choice for quite a while. It tends to give like 5 AD / 12 AP or so late game (I.E. a non-existent amount), and is just the equivalent of old MS quints in that the constant movement bonus is better than some weaker, situational, utility options.

This is going to give it an identity. Riot wants all runes to have a niche; specific use cases where they're good, and others where they aren't. It's now becoming a noticeable boon to champions who go fast, but becoming far less attractive as a general "walk around the map a bit quicker" pick for everyone and their mother.

WimbledofyJun 8, 20183 votes

More damage isn't a niche though. Everyone builds bonus movespeed anyways, so everyone will still get dmg from it, and everyone will likely still take it.

MorganFreemanBotJun 8, 20183 votes

{quoted}

More damage isn't a niche though. Everyone builds bonus movespeed anyways, so everyone will still get dmg from it, and everyone will likely still take it.

But it has niche use / benefits.

For example:

Right now, Celerity is commonly taken on junglers such as Xin, Olaf, and Rek'sai. These champions have 0 movement speed enhancing mobility except Olaf, who has a 1 second contextual speed boost on his ulti (note that I said movement SPEED enhancements; not that they're immobile).

These are not champions who should be taking celerity. They gain an extremely nominal damage benefit, and a meh-at-absolute-best speed enhancement. It shouldn't appeal to them, but it does because it's a great big ball of stats with no context.

With the changes, that's going to change. It's still going to be a ball of stats, but it's a ball of stats which specifically enhances and rewards certain playstyles. Xin and Rek'sai get no real mileage out of it and so will (hopefully) pass it up while the likes of Hecarim, Rammus, Warwick, Udyr, and other "gotta go fast" picks will get stronger benefits.

So it's not niche in its activation, but it's designed in such a way that it rewards champions with particular kits and tools, which makes it niche.

DeathBurstJun 8, 20183 votes

What you said is right, but you analyze the situation through the lens of Runes giving AD or AP.

On the other hand, if I want Move Speed, if I don't have it, what Runes should I take to get it? More specifically, if I want MS as champs like Garen, Mordekaiser, Singed, Annie, Syndra. Nimbus Cloak doesn't work, I need MS to get in range FOR using my ult. Phase Rush is OK'ish, but not as attractive as other Keystone. Riverwalking don't work. The Hunter rune gives only out of combat MS, so any stray poke disables it. And Celerity is just nerfed by half (on that aspect).

So what do I do?

MogarlJun 8, 20182 votes

Celerity does still give 1.5% ms which will be much more significant when less people have celerity.

Garen does have a small MS boost and Singed has a rather large amount of MS so they can still take it (plus they've got pretty decent base speed and didn't need the boost that much).

Syndra can go Approach velocity and land her stun. If celerity is allowing her to just walk up and ult people without landing it then I think that is something that should be seen as bad.

Annie is balanced around a terrible minigame, and Imo needs a small rework so she's something besides an flash ult stun murder bot beyond level 6. It's not really a pinnacle of champion design.

Every day that goes by where Mordekaiser isn't VGU'd is a mistake so I don't think balancing a rune around him is ideal.

Giving champions that are designed around limited target access free tools that provide better target access is a dangerous design choice, and it's quite a bit more power than there should be in an omnipresent minor rune.

If you want a lot of movespeed your going to have to give up something of greater value than a minor rune slot. item 3742 item 3800 item 2065 item 2053

DeathBurstJun 8, 20181 votes

Celerity does still give 1.5% ms which will be much **more significant when less people have celerity. **

True, I didn't think about that second part.

it's quite a bit more power than there should be in an omnipresent minor rune.

Fair enough, but you can't prevent people from mourning the loss of that tool, even if it was an undue tool for them to have in the first place.

And even if the Rune was too strong and needed the nerf for the good of the system overall, it's not clear that the people who most needed that Rune deserved that nerf too. Sure, they will be compensated in a patch or two if that's the case, but it will be painful in the meantime.

MogarlJun 9, 20182 votes

{quoted}

And even if the Rune was too strong and needed the nerf for the good of the system overall, it's not clear that the people who most needed that Rune deserved that nerf too. Sure, they will be compensated in a patch or two if that's the case, but it will be painful in the meantime.

Fair enough. Waiting for compensation for your favorite champion after an overall healthy game change hits them hard is always painful.

VelasanJun 8, 20187 votes

{quoted}

TBH this is fine.

Celerity has been kind of a ... "Meh, nothing better" choice for quite a while. It tends to give like 5 AD / 12 AP or so late game (I.E. a non-existent amount), and is just the equivalent of old MS quints in that the constant movement bonus is better than some weaker, situational, utility options.

This is going to give it an identity. Riot wants all runes to have a niche; specific use cases where they're good, and others where they aren't. It's now becoming a noticeable boon to champions who go fast, but becoming far less attractive as a general "walk around the map a bit quicker" pick for everyone and their mother.

I would respectfully argue that adding another rune that just grants even more AP is not unique in any way. Even if it does that through requiring movement speed we already have absolute focus, eyeball collector, water walking and gathering storm for adaptive stats.

As a movement speed rune it's attractive to junglers and other champions with built in movement speed modifiers. If they change it in this way then there is really nothing cementing it against the other runes in that row. For example, if I'm looking at the row as a mid laner I'm probably going to take transcendence at that point because I need my abilities up more than I need a minor amount of M.S. that may grant some stats later. If I'm going sorcery secondary I would take storm instead because it's all the time adaptive stats that are going to far out grow whatever celerity would give me at about the same rate since you wouldn't have hardly any movement speed early.

MorganFreemanBotJun 8, 20184 votes

{quoted}

I would respectfully argue that adding another rune that just grants even more AP is not unique in any way. Even if it does that through requiring movement speed we already have absolute focus, eyeball collector, water walking and gathering storm for adaptive stats.

As a movement speed rune it's attractive to junglers and other champions with built in movement speed modifiers. If they change it in this way then there is really nothing cementing it against the other runes in that row. For example, if I'm looking at the row as a mid laner I'm probably going to take transcendence at that point because I need my abilities up more than I need a minor amount of M.S. that may grant some stats later. If I'm going sorcery secondary I would take storm instead because it's all the time adaptive stats that are going to far out grow whatever celerity would give me at about the same rate since you wouldn't have hardly any movement speed early.

You're missing the point.

Show me the rune which reads "Gain X AD / AP." Go ahead. I'll wait.

There's only so much you can do with runes, that's the unfortunate truth. As a result there are going to be a number of runes which overlap, particularly in the raw stats department. These can be pinpointed most specifically as Chrysalis, Eyeball Collection, Gathering Storm, and Celerity.

All these runes boil down to gaining X amount of stats, however they do it in different ways and pander to different champions.

Eyeball collection isn't going to be strong on most tops; you can't reliably get kills / assists, and you won't do much ward control due to rarely leaving lane.

Gathering Storm is for late game champs. Late game adc's / mage carries / bruiser carries can utilize it. But on someone like Xin, Renekton, or Rek'sai? It's utter garbage, because it's weak to non-existent when they're strong.

Chrysalis is for champions who need early game tank and late game AD. Darius is a great example; 60 health will win him more early game trades than the AD, but later in the game it's the opposite way around.

Celerity is supposed to be a damage enhancement for champions who go fast. It's literally supposed to be a more wide-ranging, but weaker, version of Hecarim's passive; rewarding large impacts after speed boosts / champions who enhance their movement speed during a fight.

These runes all do the same thing, but the method by which they do it - and the champions they favor - give each and every one of them a niche.

OtherworldzJun 8, 20185 votes

While Celerity looks good on paper for immobile mages it's usually always used to either make already hyper mobile melee champions even more mobile, or it's abused by ADC because of the synergy it has with Fleet Footwork. This punishes immobile mages that choose to take Transcendence twice as hard because not only are they missing out on the advantage of having higher starting MS at level 1 but if they don't take Celerity the gap between their starting/overall MS and anyone that chooses to take Celerity becomes even larger, making them feel even more immobile by comparison.

Pierce The VealJun 8, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Movement speed lowered from 3% to 1.5% Adaptive AD increased from 4.8% to 9.6% Adaptive AP increased from 8% to 16%

Half the movement speed for double the damage, effectively turning this rune into a must-have option (and honestly kind of broken on a certain horse) for champions with movement speed buffs, while meanwhile rendering it completely useless for the immobile champions that ACTUALLY need the movement speed. Sure, we have Transcendence, but I find it to be a bit of a noob trap since the extra movement speed from Celerity was much more beneficial to the woes of an immobile mage.

But, you know, we definitely need champions to deal more damage, so let's go ahead and buff that portion of the program by increasing the AP and AD ratios.

Seriously, do you people even play your own game? :/

The thing is, the increased damage is actually shit except on like a couple champions. Due to movement speed softcaps, getting much stats out of celerity is hard as heck.

And, if you think about it, at 500 movement speed you will get a wopping 14.4 AD or 24 AP.

Pretty lackluster really. You could actually outright remove the damage component and leave it at 3% movement speed and almost everyone who took it will, surprise!, still take it.

wildfox99Jun 8, 20181 votes

so just remove the AP/AD scaling and buff its movement speed...as you said if someone picks this rune it means he wants the %MS,i really don't get these changes

Pierce The VealJun 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

so just remove the AP/AD scaling and buff its movement speed...as you said if someone picks this rune it means he wants the %MS,i really don't get these changes

Well yeah. I’m not here to defend riot on this, but it seems for some reason they want it to give less movespeed?

wildfox99Jun 10, 20181 votes

the problem is that this change is good for MS based champions but it also leave the ones that relied on this %MS without a replacement

they should at least make a replacement in a different tree (maybe inspiration?) or reworking magical footwear since it's useless atm (if you rely on MS you can't wait 10 min,if you don't you just don't want this rune)

Pierce The VealJun 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

the problem is that this change is good for MS based champions but it also leave the ones that relied on this %MS without a replacement

they should at least make a replacement in a different tree (maybe inspiration?) or reworking magical footwear since it's useless atm (if you rely on MS you can't wait 10 min,if you don't you just don't want this rune)

But... it’s actually not.

Do that math. The actual gain in ap/ad is marginal.

It’s bad on everyone, but less bad on people with innate ms modifiers, but still worse on them than 3% movespeed.

Hecarim with 600 ms is going to get a whole whopping 25 AD out of it, in exchange for losing 1.5% movespeed at all times.

LeonerdoJun 8, 20184 votes

turning this rune into a must-have option (and honestly kind of broken on a certain horse) for champions with movement speed buffs, while meanwhile rendering it completely useless for the immobile champions that ACTUALLY need the movement speed.

I'm pretty sure that this is close to the actual reason. Currently, Celerity is generically good on basically anyone, since everyone wants at least some movement speed (everyone needs to dodge shit, move around in fights, and travel across the map, right?) and AD/AP is also pretty general-purpose. The tweaked version is at least more focused on champions who already move fast (or want to build Ghostblade/Shurelya's), and want to push their advantage during their MS cooldowns. It's still not terribly interesting, and there are certainly abuse cases (like Yi/Udyr/Singed), but I think it's an improvement overall.

AmenPersonJun 8, 20184 votes

The argument that I can see here is the thought that the only people who take this rune are immobile mages. Yes, it helps them all out a lot, but a good chunk of immobile mages still seem to want to take Transcendence, just because 75% of the mage items in the game give CDR.

For mages, this change is just gonna make Spellbinder stupidly strong, and might make some synergy between Nimbus Cloak and Celerity actually happen on more battle focus mages, since that would be about 400g worth of value right there.

But, just my thoughts and opinions.

Ezking15Jun 8, 20183 votes

Prepare for the reign of predator Karthus.

[sg-ahri-1]

IcyPepperJun 8, 20182 votes

Adaptive AD increased from 4.8% to 9.6%

Oh my Predator Pyke build is going to love this.

RekSai CoffeeCoJun 8, 20182 votes

Just another MS nerf for AP Junglers like Runic Echoes and yet they wonder why only duelists and few AD junglers are left or played often.

VelasanJun 8, 20182 votes

Well actually the rune itself did not contribute to mobility creep just by existing. You could already get up to 4.5% extra m.s. from quints in the old runes.

If they were to change celerity due to it adding "too much movement speed" or due to "mobility creep" then the best way would be to remove nimbus cloak and instead make celerity a higher amount of m.s. but only activate once every time you use an ability.

Changing it into an entirely damaged focused rune is not an interesting choice especially paired directly across from absolute focus, which would essentially be the exact same rune except for needing to not be on low HP.

We don't take celerity because it can give us a couple extra AD or AP when we have movement speed. We use it for the movement speed it grants to begin with.

KivolanJun 8, 20182 votes

The argument was never that immobile mages are the only ones benefiting from Celerity. My main issue is that this change is yet another indirect nerf to immobile mages, who are already in the dumpster this season. I ran movement speed quints before the runes update because that additional movement speed is invaluable for escaping on an immobile champion.

Several other people have already explained (much more eloquently than I ever could) about how this attempt at making a generalized rune more "niche" is going to completely backfire, though. That's the real argument.

Vlada CutJun 8, 20182 votes

Adc's benefitted from it due to their items giving MS which was more favorable for them than Transendence. Now this change will make you spike hard throughout the whole game with Phase Rush lol. Cough Phase Rush Xin Zhao Cough

GaliöJun 8, 20182 votes

Celerity was too generalist. That was the issue.

These changes sent fix the issue very well but it's an attempt. I imagine itll still be a generalist rune.

Badnik96Jun 8, 20183 votes

the problem isnt with celerity, its that its alternatives in the tree are way too weak and situational, so everyone taking sorcery (for either primary or secondary) was taking this rune simply because it was vastly better than the others in the tree.

now that theyre making this rune weak and situational too i don't really seeing anyone taking sorcery secondary unless they really want nimbus cloak or something

Meep ManJun 8, 20182 votes

To be honest, there are better movement speed rune options for those that just need movement speed in general.

KazaJhodoJun 8, 20182 votes

I think this is better. Half the effectiveness, double the dmg....same effectiveness without less speed.... wait a minute

Now it only gives decent stats if your champion has skills that work with it, or if you have speed boosts on your team. Like, karma, sivir, so on.... oh and don't forget ITEMS with speed boosts.

Before everyone ran it because of its decent combat stats, movement is a no-brainer, so it was better than anything else.

Although there is a problem. Anything with speed boosts or teams build around speed boosts... are going to be exploiting it while no one else can.

So uh, Draven trades anyone? Hit w, CHUNK. CHUNKCHUNKGOLDFLIESEVERYWHERE.

Nm, I don't think this is better. I just think as an adc I'm going to be getting shit on faster. AH SINGED!!!! pop

Skia AlepouJun 8, 20182 votes

{quoted}

So uh, Draven trades anyone? Hit w, CHUNK. CHUNKCHUNKGOLDFLIESEVERYWHERE.

Now picture that trade if he has Nami support who cast Tide Caller's Blessing on him just as he gets in auto range.

MalrothDragoniaJun 8, 20182 votes

you mean it's now more niche to work on champions that have synergy with it?! OMG HOW DARE THEY?!

you realize this change does exactly what they aimed for? If you remember when the boot enchantments were a thing, they realized that when extra mobility is available, it is simply too useful in a too generic sense. Celerity was crowding out the other runes in its slot, because it was taken for the movement, not for the bonus stats.