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Anyone Wanna Try Duel Drain Tanks Bottom Lane When Preseason Begins? (Bro's Vow Strategy)

Meep Man··23 votes·3,351 views

http://media.lolusercontent.com/api/embedly/1/image/resize?url=https%3A%2F%2Flolstatic-a.akamaihd.net%2Ffrontpage%2Fapps%2Fprod%2Fpreseason-2017%2Fen_US%2Fe8b9fdc1b422a536983bfd583c13deb77ac2146f%2Fassets%2Fimg%2Fgameplay%2Fitems%2Fknights-vow.jpg&key=a45e967db0914c7fb472fd4381e6c85b&width=425

(I call it Bro's Vow because Olaf is what made me think of this)

Seeing as Marksmans go into many other roles now (Middle Lane, Jungle, and even Top) I wonder if we could try out some other strategies Bottom Lane and, I don't know, something Malicious Metal said (myabe joked about) about going duel Knight's Vow (somewhere) Bottom Lane made me start wondering. Who could do this and really succeed? Drain/Heal Heavy Tanks. Drain tanks could do it and succeed. Both get Relic Shields to share gold and rush Knight's Vow (which is actually overall cheap) to attach it to each other and reduce the damage dealt to each other and cause both to heal for the damage dealt by the other, increasing the Drain Tank power. Olaf DrMundo Aatrox Swain Vladimir Mordekaiser Galio Warwick For those that don't know, this is Knight's Vow:

item 3801 + item 3801 + item 1029 + 800 G = 2400 G Total +400 Health +100% Base Health Regeneration +20 Armor Active :: Designate an ally as your partner. (90 second cooldown) Passive :: If your partner is nearby, gain 40 additional armor and +15% movement speed while moving towards them. Passive :: If your partner is nearby, heal for 12% of the damage they deal to enemy champions and redirect 12% of the damage your partner takes to you. This effect is halved for ranged champions.

Swain and Vladimir aren't as effective for this, but I posted anyways just in case. Anyone who can deal damage and heal at the same time can buy this with an ally and get some pretty cheesy and maybe even a little disgusting survivability due to how this works. Of course, since you are Drain/Healing Tanks, you get Spirit Visage. This further boosts the healing from this item. Anyone wanna try this out once Preseason begins?

I would say Dr. Mundo, Olaf, and Galio in particular are great for this strategy since they themselves aren't too item reliant early game and more just want any defensive stats they can get.

117 Comments

Critmaster Garen16 votes

im honestly afraid of this happening.

marksmen with item 3072 item 3046 + bond of stone + knights vow.

thats 27% damage reduction by the way.

without having to sacrifice any form of offensive power for it. simply for buying a pd and having a support tank sitting next to them, not even doing anything.

knights vow is either going to make bot lane bruisers viable, or its going to be most cancerous buff to marksmen to date.

Ralanr4 votes

Hopefully we'll get marksmen nerfs. Like maybe cutting their sustain.

Critmaster Garen7 votes

{quoted}

Hopefully we'll get marksmen nerfs. Like maybe cutting their sustain.

id rather see knights vow changed to be THE duo bruiser lane item.

make the damage redirection only half as effective for the targeted champion when hes ranged aswell, so melee characters would get the full 12% and marksmen would get 6%.

im not sure why the value is only half as effective on the ranged support who buys the item, instead.

Ralanr2 votes

We both know they Riot will first nerf tanks and fighters effect on the item before they will marksmen.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

We both know they Riot will first nerf tanks and fighters effect on the item before they will marksmen.

one can dream. they did try with morde once, maybe they can be convinced to keep trying.

Ralanr2 votes

As long as they don't try to make specific champions to accomplish that role. That's how we got Irelia and fuck Irelia.

Wolfram Oxford1 votes

{quoted}

Hopefully we'll get marksmen nerfs. Like maybe cutting their sustain.

Do you hate ADCs?

Critmaster Garen5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wolfram Oxford,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lcFGpysV,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2016-10-26T14:25:50.527+0000)

Do you hate ADCs?

considering the massive amount of damage reduction theyll be able to get for no cost to their damage, they probably will need sustain nerfs to compensate.

Paroe2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lcFGpysV,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2016-10-26T14:26:58.037+0000)

considering the massive amount of damage reduction theyll be able to get for no cost to their damage, they probably will need sustain nerfs to compensate.

meanwhile Graves item 3812 item 3046 +Fiora ;-; i did this with someone on pbe. its scary effective.

Ralanr17 votes

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/c5/c5f0d947e06737cf448ab355cd385f063cfd9d2cf4da081b7a5b53bc9fce95fb.jpg

It's more bias than anything else. I really don't like how they seem to lose all weaknesses late game and how crit turns their sustain damage into sustained burst (yes that doesn't make sense. I know, but I still don't like the damage spike in crit).

manbearswine1 votes

{quoted}

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/c5/c5f0d947e06737cf448ab355cd385f063cfd9d2cf4da081b7a5b53bc9fce95fb.jpg

It's more bias than anything else. I really don't like how they seem to lose all weaknesses late game and how crit turns their sustain damage into sustained burst (yes that doesn't make sense. I know, but I still don't like the damage spike in crit).

I mean they are the second least contested role as is, do you want to start getting autofilled into adc? Cause that's how you start getting autofilled to adc.

Ralanr1 votes

I remember getting ADC a lot in season 5 when I picked fill in chat.

I don't think I mind them being autofill.

manbearswine1 votes

{quoted}

I remember getting ADC a lot in season 5 when I picked fill in chat.

I don't think I mind them being autofill.

Would you say the same after they got nerfed using your suggestions?

I mean maybe it's just me but I think nerfing the least contested roles is a really dumb move, it just ends up with people getting roles they don't want to play.

Ralanr3 votes

I mean, in the new fill system you can exclude roles you don't want to play.

manbearswine1 votes

{quoted}

I mean, in the new fill system you can exclude roles you don't want to play.

Then you'll get auto filled into them, that's kinda the whole point.

Ralanr1 votes

And I don't mind having to play Jhin or Sivir. At all.

manbearswine1 votes

{quoted}

And I don't mind having to play Jhin or Sivir. At all.

But others will, the least contested roles are least contested for a reason, especially if you make them weaker first.

Ralanr4 votes

So what? Just leave marksmen like this and buff them when they get weak? Ignore other roles like fighters and tanks in top or assassins and mages in mid?

What you're arguing can apply to any class whenever they are weak or strong. The only difference is that Riot effectively forces a marksman and only a marksman to work in bot because they don't seem to want anyone else to function down there.

manbearswine1 votes

{quoted}

So what? Just leave marksmen like this and buff them when they get weak? Ignore other roles like fighters and tanks in top or assassins and mages in mid?

Just don't make the least contested roles weaker, that's all I'm saying.

What you're arguing can apply to any class whenever they are weak or strong.

If you define class as a role(mid lane/jungle/top lane/adc/support) then yes, otherwise(adcs/tanks/assassins/mages/etc), no.

The only difference is that Riot effectively forces a marksman and only a marksman to work in bot because they don't seem to want anyone else to function down there.

And why do you think they do that?

Ralanr6 votes

Because marksmen originally couldn't function in solo lane.

Now they can while the other laners suffer this whole melee vs ranged problem.

manbearswine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=mr Boombastic787,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lcFGpysV,comment-id=00010000000100010002000000000000000000000000000000000003,timestamp=2016-10-27T10:34:19.799+0000)

Marksmen are not too weak!

I didn't say they were, though if you bring it up I think they could use some minor buffs, but that might cause issues in other lanes, so maybe it's not the greatest idea... Definitely no nerfs though.

Maybe bot is the least contested role but that doesn't mean it's the one that's not so impactful.

It doesn't inherently mean that, but that's pretty much what's going on.

I don't play bot because I don't like playing duo with a random person in lane.

HJSFKDHFJKSFHKSLD DO YOU REALLY THINK ANYONE DOES?! This reliance on a random is exactly what makes both of the bot laners less impactful, a support with a bad adc is crippled, and so is an adc with a bad support, and then junglers and mid start roaming towards the lane with two squishes, oh and the top laner tps too.

It's the lane with the least agency.

Marksmen are very strong right now! They have a big impact early with the bot tower being the easiest to push down.

Yes but only one side can get it down first. It just makes the lane more snowbally and causes junglers/mid laners to farm bot even more, it doesn't really add much power to the bot laners themselves.

And top they are lanebullys and punish non ranged champs for farming.

I was talking about adc as a role, not a class, their business outside of the role of a farming bot laner aren't something I'm talking about.

And late it's rediculous how much damage they do and how fast they push!

Have you seen what mages do lategame? Insane damage, insane waveclear, cc, utility, burst, higher range. Oh and they have stronger defensive abilities than the adc. Oh right and a stronger early. Oh right and the ability to roam to other lanes. Oh right and a shorter lane so they are less susceptible to the jungler.

I want riot to nerf marksmen in the early game when they play against non ranged champs.

I'm sorry but I cannot support the bruiser circlejerk, brusiers are completely fine and you can see that everywhere, from competitive to solo q.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Because marksmen originally couldn't function in solo lane.

Now they can while the other laners suffer this whole melee vs ranged problem.

Great! Let's release melee champions that scale better with gold than with level and send them botlane. Nerf ADCs as a class, and bam, we have the ultimate variety in the game.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

But others will, the least contested roles are least contested for a reason, especially if you make them weaker first.

I hate ADC, but I don't mind either. If someone really can't accept playing as ADC they can dodge. Not nerfing a class that's tol strong because you don't want its popularity to go down enough for you to autofill it is ridiculous. Trust me, even if they reduced lifesteal from ranged autos by a third Marksmen would never become the least popular role in the game. I'd even be somewhat surprised if it dropped to fourth.

manbearswine1 votes

{quoted}

I hate ADC, but I don't mind either. If someone really can't accept playing as ADC they can dodge.

Ah yes, the let's ruin this game for other people because of some random QQ. How about we actually nerf the roles which really are oppressive, how about we send some nerfs down the mid lane and into the jungle?

Not nerfing a class that's tol strong because you don't want its popularity to go down enough for you to autofill it is ridiculous.

It's not just me not wanting to autofill, you might not believe it but most people don't like autofilling, and no, balancing the game to avoid autofilling is far from "ridiculous".

Trust me, even if they reduced lifesteal from ranged autos by a third Marksmen would never become the least popular role in the game.

Admittedly support is hard to wrestle that title from.

I'd even be somewhat surprised if it dropped to fourth.

It already is fourth.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Ah yes, the let's ruin this game for other people because of some random QQ. How about we actually nerf the roles which really are oppressive, how about we send some nerfs down the mid lane and into the jungle?

It's not just me not wanting to autofill, you might not believe it but most people don't like autofilling, and no, balancing the game to avoid autofilling is far from "ridiculous".

Admittedly support is hard to wrestle that title from.

It already is fourth.

Eh. Maybe we should balance around support not being the autofill all the time? Based on your logic anyway.

mr Boombastic7871 votes

Hey, this is my opinion. I think they should nerf marksmen as a class. Not bot. This post about dual bros vow bot was a great idea! I wan't bot lane to be more than a marksman and a support or tank. I think it should be more like top or jungle. That you can play many classes in that role. Top you can play every class in the game (maybe not a support like soraka) in ranked. Top marksmen: Quinn and vayne for example. You can play Teemo too he is a marksmen!

This is what I want diffrent classes in bot! Maybe one game you face a dual tank bot and the other an assassin and a Mage!

They don't have to nerf marksmen but they should make it less enoying to play against ranged champs if your not ranged!

manbearswine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=mr Boombastic787,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lcFGpysV,comment-id=00010000000100010002000000000001,timestamp=2016-10-27T10:24:25.706+0000)

Hey, this is my opinion. I think they should nerf marksmen as a class. Not bot. This post about dual bros vow bot was a great idea!

What? This post is random nonsense, this item will not help dual bruiser bots, it absolutely shines when used by a melee(for double effects) tank/bruiser(so the armor will be useful) on a squishy high damage target(so the damage mitigation and the redirected lifesteal+spell vamp will shine), OP unfortunately has no idea what he is talking about.

I wan't bot lane to be more than a marksman and a support or tank.

I'm not inherently against it(I can write a huge wall of text on why I fear it's a bad idea, but I'm not 100% sure about it anyway), but this just won't help achieve that, this item is great when used by someone tanky on someone squishy, I don't see it helping any new bot lane setups.

I think it should be more like top or jungle. That you can play many classes in that role. Top you can play every class in the game (maybe not a support like soraka) in ranked.

...And then the bruiser circlejerk complains about anything which isn't a bruiser and goes top. I don't necessarily disagree though.

They don't have to nerf marksmen but they should make it less enoying to play against ranged champs if your not ranged!

It already is that way...

mr Boombastic7871 votes

What? This post is random nonsense, this item will not help dual bruiser bots, it absolutely shines when used by a melee(for double effects) tank/bruiser(so the armor will be useful) on a squishy high damage target(so the damage mitigation and the redirected lifesteal+spell vamp will shine), OP unfortunately has no idea what he is talking about.

This post is not about competetive ranked. I think it's a great idea because it's a fun idea. I don't think this strategy will be able to compete with the normal botlane strategy. Though for anyone who wants to have fun in normal too and not just play ranked (me) its a great idea.

I'm not inherently against it(I can write a huge wall of text on why I fear it's a bad idea, but I'm not 100% sure about it anyway), but this just won't help achieve that, this item is great when used by someone tanky on someone squishy, I don't see it helping any new bot lane setups.

I think that will make botlane more fun for me at least. I know it can become a disaster if they try to change the meta in the bot lane to something else than adc and support (Mordekaiser rework) but if they do it right I will enjoy botlane so much more. Right now my least favorit role is adc and my second least favorit role is support.

You don't have to agree but this is my thoughts on botlane.

manbearswine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=mr Boombastic787,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lcFGpysV,comment-id=0001000000010001000200000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-10-28T11:43:59.441+0000)

This post is not about competetive ranked.

Thing is if it's not good at competitive/high elo you'll be raged at for playing it, even if it's decent in the lower elos.

I think it's a great idea because it's a fun idea. I don't think this strategy will be able to compete with the normal botlane strategy. Though for anyone who wants to have fun in normal too and not just play ranked (me) its a great idea.

You can run some semi-sensible nonsense right now(like j4-leona, support rengar, ap annie bot/etc), this item won't make this better, if anything it will make it worse, as it favors high damage dealers as your partners.

I think that will make botlane more fun for me at least. I know it can become a disaster if they try to change the meta in the bot lane to something else than adc and support

Fear isn't so much to bot gameplay, more as to gameplay as a whole, the certainty of an adc per team solidifies certain things in the game.

(Mordekaiser rework) but if they do it right I will enjoy botlane so much more. Right now my least favorit role is adc and my second least favorit role is support.

Thing is you don't really explain why it is that way, it could possibly have nothing to do with the adc being mandatory.

mr Boombastic7871 votes

I meant that I will enjoy this strategy in normals and maybe in ranked if me and my friend is dominating with it (we will probably not but it's worth a shot) I am in lower elo currently at Silver 2.

You can run some semi-sensible nonsense right now(like j4-leona, support rengar, ap annie bot/etc), this item won't make this better, if anything it will make it worse, as it favors high damage dealers as your partners.

You are forgeting the new MissFortune support strategy! I know it is an item to help the adc but I think it will be fun to try the dual sustain bruisers bot.

Fear isn't so much to bot gameplay, more as to gameplay as a whole, the certainty of an adc per team solidifies certain things in the game.

I agree that it's good for the game to have a adc in both teams. I just say that it will make every game different if I one time have tank top, a Kindred jungle, support mid(?) and fighter + mage bot. Then I will still have an adc, but in the jungle. The next game I have a Quinn top, tank jungle, assassin mid and a mage and tank bot this time. Just this time I have the adc top. Maybe next game its a little more normal with a tank and adc bot. I just want the games to feel more different.

Thing is you don't really explain why it is that way, it could possibly have nothing to do with the adc being mandatory.

I don't like bot for some different resons. I don't think its fun to play adc or support because I always meet a support and a adc. It just feels like I do the same thing every game in bot lane. If I am adc, I farm earlygame, try to maybe get some kills and then go for an objective to then return to farm. Then I will try to snowball and get more towers and dragons and hopefully win teamfights and win the game. If I fall behind they will do this to me and I will just try to do my best to farm up and get back in to the game and turn it around. Support feels more fun though. I've resently started to pick up Bard when I get support and he is quite different from anything in the game. I like to roam around and help other lanes and going in deep into the enemys jungle to get some deepwards at their blue buff.

Though ther are other stuff thats keeping me from playing bot in solo que. I don't like playing in a duolane when I don't know that I can trust my partner or when a toxic player flames me in lane and stop playing. Bot is more of a duo que thing that I play with friends.

I also feel like many matchups bot is anoying. It feels like Im meeting Blitzcrank and Zyra all the time!.

You are right that it's not only about adc being mandatory but about many other personal things.

manbearswine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=mr Boombastic787,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lcFGpysV,comment-id=000100000001000100020000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-28T23:43:04.728+0000)

I meant that I will enjoy this strategy in normals and maybe in ranked if me and my friend is dominating with it (we will probably not but it's worth a shot) I am in lower elo currently at Silver 2.

This strategy is just subpar compared to other semi-trolling, and even more so to serious play, especially when that item will get nerfed(it's pretty obvious it's overtuned at its current state).

You are forgeting the new MissFortune support strategy! I know it is an item to help the adc but I think it will be fun to try the dual sustain bruisers bot.

I want you to seriously take a good long look at this item and tell me what makes you think this won't be way better on a tank+adc combo.

I agree that it's good for the game to have a adc in both teams. I just say that it will make every game different if I one time have tank top, a Kindred jungle, support mid(?) and fighter + mage bot. Then I will still have an adc, but in the jungle. The next game I have a Quinn top, tank jungle, assassin mid and a mage and tank bot this time. Just this time I have the adc top. Maybe next game its a little more normal with a tank and adc bot. I just want the games to feel more different.

Face it, this is lol, you know the playerbase, pretty much nobody will think "oh we don't have adc I'll take one", I'm sure you've seen what happens when mid takes an ad champion, nobody cares you have no ap, they'll pick whatever they felt like when they entered champ select.

I don't like bot for some different resons. I don't think its fun to play adc or support because I always meet a support and a adc. It just feels like I do the same thing every game in bot lane. If I am adc, I farm earlygame, try to maybe get some kills and then go for an objective to then return to farm. Then I will try to snowball and get more towers and dragons and hopefully win teamfights and win the game. If I fall behind they will do this to me and I will just try to do my best to farm up and get back in to the game and turn it around.

I'm not sure that would change if bruisers would be more serious picks.

Though ther are other stuff thats keeping me from playing bot in solo que. I don't like playing in a duolane when I don't know that I can trust my partner or when a toxic player flames me in lane and stop playing. Bot is more of a duo que thing that I play with friends.

And that won't change even if adc isn't mandatory.

I also feel like many matchups bot is anoying. It feels like Im meeting Blitzcrank and Zyra all the time!.

Well zyra is a result of worlds, there's always a fotm. Besides, what makes you think these matchups won't be even more frustrating? I mean look at top lane, it's super snowbally because that's what happens when you're melee in a long lane.

mr Boombastic7871 votes

Have I said it will be better on dual tanks? I said it will be FUN to try, not better then what it is designed to do. I don't have a pbe acount so I have not seen knights vow's streangth or what it is capable of.

manbearswine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=mr Boombastic787,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lcFGpysV,comment-id=00010000000100010002000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-04T04:40:31.259+0000)

Have I said it will be better on dual tanks? I said it will be FUN to try, not better then what it is designed to do. I don't have a pbe acount so I have not seen knights vow's streangth or what it is capable of.

Why even talk if you are THAT clueless then? What's the point in making a statement or an argument if you are so detached from how this game works it just ends up in completely random nonsense?

You want to try dual tanks? might as well do it now, this item won't make anything better for them.

IcyPepper2 votes

I mean they are the second least contested role as is

I dunno, I haven't seen a mage carry in bot lane for years. Or assassin. Or bruiser.

It Hertz When IP6 votes

Massive kudos for at least admitting that you have a bias against them. Not everyone can manage that.

Ralanr5 votes

I'm not perfect, why should I pretend to be? I'm not exactly the most knowledgable of the game and getting angry clouds judgement.

Edit: Thank you.

Cat on Roids v21 votes

i can do it too. fuck every cait player that crits 3 times in arow and she is 75% hp with one vampS and warlords after i burst her in ateamfight always fun to watch them draintanks ehkmm adc's in action

Pierce The Veal1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darien Juranas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lcFGpysV,comment-id=00010000000100010003,timestamp=2016-10-26T23:31:09.885+0000)

Massive kudos for at least admitting that you have a bias against them. Not everyone can manage that.

I'm not gonna lie I hate ranged champions too, despite playing a ton of Kog'maw, Kennen, and Syndra in the past.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Nope we're buffing them with the Fervor change, allowing it to crit, apply lifesteal, and apply to damage ratios. Only part that is nerfed is its hurricane interaction.

Spoofghoul1 votes

fervor already worked with lifesteal though

lifesteal applies to any and all physical on hit effects

AirKingNeo1 votes

No, lifesteal applies to attack damage from basic attacks, not on hit effects unless that on hit specifies so. (Gp Q)

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Hopefully we'll get marksmen nerfs. Like maybe cutting their sustain.

Actually that would be great.

Cut off lifesteal from ranged autos by 25% or even 33%. Buff lifesteal items. Bam, melees are more viable.

Wolfram Oxford1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lcFGpysV,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-10-26T14:05:59.849+0000)

im honestly afraid of this happening.

marksmen with item 3072 item 3046 + bond of stone + knights vow.

thats 27% damage reduction by the way.

without having to sacrifice any form of offensive power for it. simply for buying a pd and having a support tank sitting next to them, not even doing anything.

knights vow is either going to make bot lane bruisers viable, or its going to be most cancerous buff to marksmen to date.

I hope thats viable, would be fun as hell to have that, especially since it would add variety to marksmen play styles.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wolfram Oxford,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lcFGpysV,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-10-26T14:27:01.646+0000)

I hope thats viable, would be fun as hell to have that, especially since it would add variety to marksmen play styles.

if by variety, you mean completely broken, then youre right.

that right there is a stronger defense steroid than most tanks have available, at no cost to their damage and for practically unlimited duration.

Zaghyr1 votes

Or you could just get 50% damage reduction. Maokai ult (20%) + Bond of Stone (6%) + Bro's Vow (12%) + Phantom Dancer (12%). You could make it even better if its a Marksmen jungler, + Skirmisher's Saber (20%) = 70%. I'm thinking Maokai top and graves adc is going to be evil af.

Golden Tager X10 votes

Dual*

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/b4/b40bf7716af0054e2bbff9a86b6b6480b53a595bdc9b4a3b5b4c9f8754a4826c.jpg

50000000000000002 votes

You misspelled Skaarl

Golden Tager X4 votes

This account existed 6 years before there was ever a skaarl.

Ralanr3 votes

Farming to get that will be tricky as a melee in bot though.

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