450k Nasus mastery here with a suggestion(s)

The Cane Master··11 votes·1,413 views
Nasus

Ok, as the title says I've played a lot of Nasus. I concluded that he's far from viable and I have a suggestion. The first thing I thought of was combining W+E into one spell, and replacing the other one with the new (useful) spell, but that would seem like a rework. Secondly, Nasus' ult damage is scaling with percentage of opponent's health AND NOT HIS OWN, which doesn't make sense. His theme of Juggernaut should give him at least one spell that scales with HP, and ult is the perfect for it since he grows bigger after casting it.

Now these two probably seem like straight up buffs, and they probably are. The only thing that would not be considered a stat buff of any kind, yet QoL change for the doge would be utility change. What comes to my mind about it is applying ''Grounded'' effect on his E (Spirit Fire). The spell scales with AP, and is left out there for the AP build, as majority of old champions had such kit. However, a long time has passed since then, and most of them got reworked (some even several times), but not Nasus didn't. This implies that this spell is probably the most underwhelming spell in the game, and empowering it strays from competitive Nasus build, which we all know is full tank.

Thoughts on any of the suggestions?

P.S. A mastery screenshot http://imgur.com/a/3Hmys

44 Comments

Carnarius5 votes

nasus is viable in any elo except for high challenger/lcs level of play (where playing him is a miserable experience). honestly he needs many tweaks, because he feels overwhelming in lower elos while being underpowered at high elo. it would be incredibly difficult to solve those 2 problems at the same time, but i believe that touching his stacking mechanic in some way would be a solution

the problem with him is, no matter how well you stacked early on or how much of an advantage you made of it, it doesn't really matter if the game lasts for 40+ minutes, because you will be kited into oblivion against a competent team. he is weak even compared to other bruisers (and let me tell you, most of bruisers suck hard in end game). he is pretty much the opposite of what people made him to be, he is an anti-late game champion (except for fancy 60+ minute games with 1.2k + stacks)

i believe that riot should bring back his identity of being a late game monster (which he was, but 3 seasons ago) by modifying his stacking mechanic to be more rewarding later on, which would add some bonuses at certain stack caps (like tankiness, tenacity, etc), that he would actually be a threat even if it would be impossible for him to reach primary targets

about wither, don't be ridiculous people. adc players have so many tools to deal with it that it really feels outrageous how much of an advantage they have

Swiftstrike41 votes

{quoted}

about wither, don't be ridiculous people. adc players have so many tools to deal with it that it really feels outrageous how much of an advantage they have

Yes, wither is fine at the moment. Do you think wither's range is too short? I always feel like its range should be just a little farther.

What keystone do you think is best for Nasus? I feel all of them are pretty average on him, with Storm Raiders maybe being the best? I always have a hard time giving up the tenacity from the resolve tree.

Carnarius2 votes

{quoted}

Yes, wither is fine at the moment. Do you think wither's range is too short? I always feel like its range should be just a little farther.

What keystone do you think is best for Nasus? I feel all of them are pretty average on him, with Storm Raiders maybe being the best? I always have a hard time giving up the tenacity from the resolve tree.

wither's range was fine before nerfs 3 years ago (700 -> 500)

sota against heavy cc teams, stormraiders against slows and opponents you can abuse with it

TTK Dreadnought4 votes

Just because he's a juggernaut, doesnt mean his abilities have to deal damage based on his own max HP. Look at Darius and Illaoi. Darius has no form of % health damage while Illaoi's W deals % max HP on the target, but not her own. Even Garen deals % Max HP of the target for villians. Volibear and Sion are the only ones i can think off that scale off their own HP in some form (sion shield), but Sion still deals damage based off target's Max HP.

The Cane Master4 votes

Trundle gets bigger when he steals resistances, Zac get's bigger the more HP he has, Sion is pretty big fella, etc. Buying Elixir of Iron gives you HP and tenacity, while also increasing your size. Therefore size is a measurement of max HP in LoL, we could agree on that. Nasus also gets bigger by ulting, but the aoe tick dmg of his ultimate deals %max HP of the enemy? What is that weird idea that went through the actual gameplay years and years ago while creating Nasus? My suggestion makes a lot more sense, doesn't it?

Edit: Forgot about Cho Gath's and Lulu's ultimates that both increase max HP and growth in size, silly me.

Akenero2 votes

He steals enemy hp and turns it into ad, that was the idea I believe.

TTK Dreadnought1 votes

Then shouldnt all champions get bigger when they buy HP items? Sterak's Gauge already does this. If you want a "consistency" then might as well.

And it wasnt the SIZE that i was commenting about, it was the % Max HP damage being based off his own health or being based off the targets.

And even then, Zac deals damage on his W based of the target's max health and not his own. And the same goes for Trundle's R. "target % max hp"

The Cane Master1 votes

Zac and Trundle are in way better spot than Nasus, so I won't think past that. However, if you only think for a bit, Trundle STEALS the resistances, therefore it makes sense to scale with the affected target and not himself.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cane Master,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=laPW6aTa,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-07-20T02:16:38.222+0000)

Trundle gets bigger when he steals resistances, Zac get's bigger the more HP he has, Sion is pretty big fella, etc. Buying Elixir of Iron gives you HP and tenacity, while also increasing your size. Therefore size is a measurement of max HP in LoL, we could agree on that. Nasus also gets bigger by ulting, but the aoe tick dmg of his ultimate deals %max HP of the enemy? What is that weird idea that went through the actual gameplay years and years ago while creating Nasus? My suggestion makes a lot more sense, doesn't it?

Edit: Forgot about Cho Gath's and Lulu's ultimates that both increase max HP and growth in size, silly me.

Size of the champion has no relevance to whether a juggernaut should deal a percentage of his own max hp as damage. Frankly, I believe all the changes you proposed only serve to make him more frustrating to deal with, and are not changes that should be lut in the game.

LadyRenly1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cane Master,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=laPW6aTa,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-07-20T02:16:38.222+0000)

Trundle gets bigger when he steals resistances, Zac get's bigger the more HP he has, Sion is pretty big fella, etc. Buying Elixir of Iron gives you HP and tenacity, while also increasing your size. Therefore size is a measurement of max HP in LoL, we could agree on that. Nasus also gets bigger by ulting, but the aoe tick dmg of his ultimate deals %max HP of the enemy? What is that weird idea that went through the actual gameplay years and years ago while creating Nasus? My suggestion makes a lot more sense, doesn't it?

Edit: Forgot about Cho Gath's and Lulu's ultimates that both increase max HP and growth in size, silly me.

giving % dmg on his own would probably get the damage nerfed a bit. the reason it scales with enemy hp is probably so he doesnt get into wet noodle fights with enemy tanks, but at the same time, isn't suffocating when he ults on a carry instead. additionally, scaling off his own hp would reduce the effectiveness of items such as GA, IBG, ZZrot etc.

Swiftstrike44 votes

Though you may be higher rank with Nasus I have a higher mastery score! Ha. Gold IV (atm) Nasus main with about 1.2 million mastery.

I actually think Nasus' kit is fine as it stands, but there are two things I would like to adjust.

  1. His base stats, specifically his base HP and HP scaling should be higher. Early items for that benefit Nasus typically do not have HP and a lot of items he builds do not have much HP compared to other tanks ( specificallyitem 3110 or item 3025) Since the mastery changes Nasus received a "soft-nerf." Most of the mastery changes in the resolve tree (what use to be the tank tree) do not greatly benefit Nasus. It use to be that I could put most of my points into the tank tree and draw some type of early tank benefit to survive the early game. Now most of the tank tree masteries outside of Runic armor and the tenacity mastery do not really benefit Nasus. Strength of Ages is probably the best mastery from that tree for Nasus, but Grasp of the Undying is so useful in early trading. Grasp, however, doesn't scale well and becomes relatively useless by the early mid game. I would like the SoA to be worth the keystone mastery for a top laner and it simply takes too long to draw much of a benefit from it as a laner.

  2. Some type of increased tenacity. Nasus simply STINKS at teamfighting. I feel useless as a Nasus with a lot of stacks playing into an average CC comp. A basic comp such as a Annie Malphite Sejuani Ashe Leona would literally render Nasus to simply a meat shield regardless of his stack count. Other juggernauts such as Darius, Garen, and Poppy remain highly effective throughout the game even if they lose lane. If I farm effectively AND maintain a high stack count I should be rewarded for my terrible early game. Most top laners simply out scale Nasus until Nasus has stacks and by the time he has enough stacks it may not even matter it the enemy comp has even a moderate amount of CC. It isn't even about levels because a level 7 Nasus can still lose to a level 7 riven he didn't stack well. My suggestion is to attach a passive to the Q stacks that increases Nasus' tenacity by a small margin for every 100 stacks. It doesn't need to be a lot, just something to somewhat mitigate high CC comps. I am really tired of just two champions such as Ekko and Amumu in a comp making it almost impossible to play Nasus. I know that if I hit 800 stacks in a game and we aren't winning we will probably lose because the game went on too long and the enemy team knows how to effectively deal with me.

I think Nasus is a really cool Champion that has different styles of play, however, with the amount of CC in the game it is easy to completely shut Nasus down regardless of his stack count. It isn't even about damage creep on ADCs, it is the fact that a moderate CC comp renders the time spent increasing my damage completely ineffective

A third option in lieu of addressing option 2 is increasing the range of wither. It is a highly potent slow, but if they increased its range it may make it so that Nasus doesn't need additional tenacity to gap close.

TL;DR: Better base HP and HP scaling and tenacity based on stacks.

The Cane Master2 votes

Hey there fellow Nasus main, how do you put champions' portraits in the text? :)

Swiftstrike42 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cane Master,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=laPW6aTa,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2016-07-20T16:47:07.683+0000)

Hey there fellow Nasus main, how do you put champions' portraits in the text? :)

There are insert champion icons on the bottom right when you go to post. It looks like an Ahri image.

Zelnick3 votes

Well nasus really isn't the best top right now. If you want a tanky top laner who can lock someone down and take on an entire team of damage, you should probably just play irelia or darius.

TheSingularity3 votes

Nasus' current state is a result of dmg creep. While item changes bolstered other juggernauts and fighters he was left in the dust as he doesn't utilise cleaver. But since he ain't a dedicated tank like say zac or naut, he doesn't have the late game defensive scaling that they do. Leaving him with the meh of both worlds.

Personally I don't want to see him return to power as vsing a ticking time bomb that required hard counters and camping to merely slow down... not shut down wasn't fun at all. He ain't like veigar or bard who can be popped. Or sion who can be kited and shredded without ult.

All because he has a jack of all trades kit: sustain, consistent dmg, a slow that's practically hard CC, def stat shred and a beef steroid. But combined with cdr runes and a sheen, being under tower doesn't seem to hinder a nasus' q stacking and only bolsters his wave clear. So apart from a hard counter lane bully and a camping jungler, what can anyone do against nasus if he returns to his old state of pick or ban? The correct answer is nothing.

My bias aside

Dont think changing his ult would do much. He'd go from having tank shred capabilities to an uber squishy popper, which he already does with sufficient stacks. It would merely limit his capabilities (not necessarily a bad thing as it may open up space for other buffs)

If you want grounded on his e...... then wither must go. Imagine getting withered and grounded at the same time. Or grounding the marksmans peel and withering them. His only minor late game weakness would be gone.

Any change to nasus imo will need to be a complete rework. If he's strong even a lil he's too strong but because of his q he will always be somewhat viable.

Arakadia3 votes

If his E did physical damage cleaver would be great on him.

He needs some harder CC I feel like. Grounded on his E and Wither on his W would be enough. But Darius has a slow and a hook. Garen has movement speed boost and silence. Nasus doesn't even feel as bursty as Illaoi or Darius or Garen. Nasus literally has nothing ranged unlike Darius who has some range atleast and Illaoi. Garen and Darius have execute ultimates and Illaoi can do lots of damage with her W which deals %health too.

TheSingularity1 votes

None of them infinitely scale and are all designed to be lane bullies. Remove his q passive and then we'll turn him into a lane bully

Arakadia3 votes

His Q passive is literally his identity. Take that away and hes boring af. Everything on him would just be stats that require no aim and give no excitement.

TheSingularity1 votes

Well then please don't propose changing him into something he can't be. He isn't meant to be bursty, he isn't meant to have insane CC (despite his only CC being extremely powerful). If you want to mash all that together, you have an illaoi/sejuani/nasus hybrid with hard cc (one of which counters atk speed champs), ranged harass, a gap closer, insane team fights, sustain, beef, no weak spots and infinitely scaling damage.

Did you directly refer to all of that? No. I simply built on you suggesting he needs harder CC and ranged harass.

Arakadia2 votes

The ideas I provided would work without touching his Q.

TheSingularity2 votes

He would be broken with that much cc

The Cane Master2 votes

Same here, no hard CC has always been Nasus' theme, his utility could be increased without adding any hard CC to his kit (I provided in topic description).

The Cane Master2 votes

I agree here with Kraken Knight, Nasus doesn't need poke and I never asked for one. While his identity is weakest early game, mediocre mid game, strongest late game, not having a significant poke fits with the ''weakest early game'' part.

The Cane Master1 votes

Yes I agree, then he could maybe go arm pen runes for more Q and E dmg.

The Cane Master1 votes

And Darius and Illaoi both wreck Nasus in lane, WHILE ALSO being more useful in teamfights.

nami tf3 votes

Possible rework ideas (some proposed by others on this thread; my own are in italics).

PASSIVE

  • Nasus has 10% + 5% per enemy champion within wither range of him.

SIPHONING STRIKE (Q)

  • Nasus gains 3 stacks and 0.75 AD from last-hitting a minion with the ability, doubled for large monsters and quadrupled for champions.
  • Upon last-hitting, refunds 50% of the mana cost and cooldown.

WITHER (W)

  • Steals movement and attack speed.

SPIRIT FIRE (E)

  • In addition to original effects, grounds affected enemies
  • In addition to original effects, silences affected enemies
  • steals armour instead
  • if Nasus stands in the zone, he gains movement speed and tenacity

FURY OF THE SANDS (R)

  • Deals own maximum health AoE DoT damage
  • free Titanic Hydra active
  • steals attack damage
  • new passive: free stormraiders

Just my cents

PhDs Nuts2 votes

If you're going to combine W/E or make E have 'Grounded', then Wither has to be hit like a truck.

The Cane Master1 votes

Yeah, I agree. In case that E gets ''Grounded'' effect, removing attack speed slow completely from Wither would be fine to me.

a very bad nado2 votes

Not bad. I used to be a Nasus main myself back then but, over time I realized that, top's really not the role for me. Support is. But I like your suggestion(s). They seem fairly reasonable.

Rivuo1 votes

If he wasent viable, you wouldnt play him in ranked and actually climb. :}

Problem with Nasus is you cannot buff him at all unless you nerf his Wither and Ult. His Wither is just too good to have for a skill so if you want to buff him something needs to go.

Problem with nasus when i play is that hes actually pretty squishy no matter the items. Maybe change his passive into something with armor

The Cane Master4 votes

I'm not able to climb past plat III for 4 years, that's how much Nasus has been viable.

Rivuo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cane Master,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=laPW6aTa,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-07-20T02:11:21.248+0000)

I'm not able to climb past plat III for 4 years, that's how much Nasus has been viable.

My friend mains urgot and just hit plat. I wouldnt say any champion is unviable if he can climb with urgot lol.

The Cane Master1 votes

Well mid plat is all you can get with a weak champion as Nasus, dunno about Urgot really.

Carnarius1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cane Master,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=laPW6aTa,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-20T16:33:08.520+0000)

Well mid plat is all you can get with a weak champion as Nasus, dunno about Urgot really.

huh?

http://www.lolskill.net/summoner/EUW/Carnarius%20v2/champions

there are many diamond nasus mains, you just need to know how to carry with him

Akenero1 votes

Nasus can be viable, you just have to have a team that will compliment him perfectly.

The Cane Master1 votes

Which is never true in Solo Queue, not only for Nasus, but for any champion ever.

option paralysis2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cane Master,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=laPW6aTa,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-07-20T02:11:21.248+0000)

I'm not able to climb past plat III for 4 years, that's how much Nasus has been viable.

Just because you can't, it doesn't mean the champ is not viable past whatever you can't climb. Sirchez was like challenger with nasus and is diamond + still now, so...

The Cane Master1 votes

On NA server where is clown fiesta in diamond+ every second game. All pros who have been to Europe said that EUW ranked ladder is the most competitive one (after Korean's ofc).

Spoofghoul1 votes

what about making his E slow increasingly the longer you stand on it aswell as slowing your attackspeed and reducing your armor over time targets inside the area are also grounded The movepeed attackspeed and armor debuff decays after leaving the area over the same duration you were in it. So if ur inside for 5 seconds it will take 5 seconds for the effect to decay back to normal And you cant just simply dash out.

so some kind of spiritfire withering aoe thing you don't wnat to stay inside of for too long

this would be the combination of his e and w

Would leave a spot for an alternate ability aswell

Van Herrington1 votes

so you're saying nasus should keep wither, and then also get a grounded effect? you are something i'd get another account banned from boards if i said it (:

The Cane Master1 votes

If provided ''Grounded'' effect on his E, I never said that the rest of Nasus' kit should stay the same. As a matter a fact, I already answered somewhere above that removing attack speed slow from his Wither would be fine to me.

1374341 votes

Nasus's E is far from the most underwhelming spell in the game.

Attaching grounded to a spell that large, that also removes armor, that is also attached to a kit that includes a spell that has a 95% slow 47.5% attack speed slow is too OP.

GaleWinUnleashed1 votes

The idea for % max enemy hp is to guarantee a kill in a certain amount of time if they don't get rid of you. It means that (barring resistances) your threat level is the same against both squishy and tanky targets, so that even if your damage isn't that high a tank can't just ignore you completely. A percentage of your own max hp (if taken far enough) could flip it around, making you extremely dangerous to squishies while being somewhat underwhelming against fellow tanks. Seeing as you have other sources of damage that already make you more effective against squishy targets due to their lack of health and resistances, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to double down and give you such a strong incentive to go for the backline, particularly when you have minimal target selection already due to lack of mobility.

Nasus is supposed to wade through the enemy team, hitting whatever happens to be within reach, pressing forward continually so that the enemy backline is forced to worry about him. Meanwhile he's doing not-insignificant damage to the frontline that's trying to slow him down. Nasus' threat to squishies is not that he WILL do damage to them, but that he CAN if he reaches them; all he has to do is make them pay attention to him, while also whittling down the tanks gathered around him with extremely consistent max hp damage. In this situation, whether or not it's Nasus' max health or his enemies' makes little difference.

https://i.imgur.com/1HvNiEO.png?noredirect

Lord Galvatron1 votes

My question is how you managed to get lv 7 Mundo. What do you build/masteries/runes on him.

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