... how about you create some actual tutorials to improve the new player experience instead and rework Warwick without noobs in mind as that limits design choices?
I mean, the current one is kinda... well... THORNMAIL ON ASHE OP!
A simple jungle tutorial a la "this is your jungle and that's what it does" while showing the simplest possibilities for jungle routes and gank ways for each lane should be possible...
Ben Sharpio23 votesThis whole tutorial on jungling is actually fucking pointless, just think about it, if you're a new player with no runes and/or an incomplete mastery page, jungling doesnt actually work/function as its supposed to because those 2 variables make a huge difference as to what can be done and when. That's why 90 percent of players do not jungle in a new account because the camps do way too much damage to you, and you can't clear fast enough. Unless they were to make runes free, or something else that aids new players in jungling, thats the only way there will be any REAL use of the tutorial. But as of right now it would just be better to learn later when you have at least 10k IP to spend on tier 3 runes.
SaltyToplaneGoat13 votesWell, runes are another thing we could just kick out of the window completly.
I mean, they cost horrofic amounts of IP for new players, provide nothing interactive to the game, and give pretty much not a single true customization option, as you just pick your standart AD/AP runes with Armor and MR every game. And the game is balanced around you picking these, or else you will put yourself at disadvantage.
If we delete the outdated rune system we could solve some of that issues...
ThiccNugg4 votesIt's a bit of fear of angering the playerbase, since some champs can jungle and such because of runes BUT mostly it's business. It's just an incentive to buy IP boosts and if they didn't have runes and kept giving us the same amount of IP who in their right mind would spend RP on champs? I'm sure they've been wanting to do it for years but they either liked their money or wanted to make sure the reduction in sales was negligible when compared to their other revenue sources.
P.S. don't wanna be a Debbie downer, cuz I really hope the new rune system is dope.
SaltyToplaneGoat3 votesPeople who have spend a lot of IP in essence are refunded either with IP or essence. Give me a big chunk of orange essence and I'd be happy ^^
Xonra1 votesI think I might actually just blink and stare if they refunded all the IP I have spent on T3 runes over the years. I'd suddenly have enough IP to buy all the champs all over again at this point with the IP I currently am sitting on with nothing to spend it on....but more runes.
GGM Yurey1 votesimho there are guys (mains) using more runepages (i for instance have 3 different rune setups for yorick ) ofc it works with just 1 too but for me its a good customization option because i can better react vs strong early matchups or i dont need 2 take flat runes if i know i cant kill the oponent laner [slayer-jinx-catface]
in short i think its usefull and doesnt cost that much for beginners because the tier 2 runes are pretty good and were reduced to 1 ip each 
but before they were very expensive u are right [slayer-jinx-wink]
Nurgle Prophet1 votes[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lWtoj8le,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-09-01T15:46:38.346+0000)
Well, runes are another thing we could just kick out of the window completly.
I mean, they cost horrofic amounts of IP for new players, provide nothing interactive to the game, and give pretty much not a single true customization option, as you just pick your standart AD/AP runes with Armor and MR every game. And the game is balanced around you picking these, or else you will put yourself at disadvantage.
If we delete the outdated rune system we could solve some of that issues...
Removing runes entirely is a terrible idea, it's one of the things that make this game unique from other MOBAs and allow for varying playstyles, in theory. Some late game champions can optimize their rune page for some early game cheese which risks harming their mid game scaling - Vladimir is a good example.
However, I agree that the system right now is very much broken. For example, what's the point of having 1 IP costing Tier 2 runes instead of just having them be a part of the player's account? The ideal solution for players would be to have all runes be free and immediately available so they might plan accordingly. However, the runes are part of a monetizing system for Riot, because the IP people sink in runes is IP they then don't have for champions, which incentives new players to buy champions with RP to save for runes, or focus on a few core champions, which cause affinity to those champions and make a player more willing to buy multiple skins for them.
For Riot to improve the Rune system, the company would have to invent a new block system that, like runes, doesn't stop a player from having fun and in theory play the game without spending a single cent yet be at an equal level if given a reasonable amount of time.
Personally, I think that with icons, the existing skins and some other special features like the executions in URF Riot has enough money to sustain itself without the Rune Barrier (Note, save kickass name for later). But it's impossible to justify to an executive losing monetizing efficiency to improve a system that works good but is frustrating for the player - yet not enough for any significant percentage to quit over it - so we the community should brainstorm some other IP sink for new players that Riot could explore as to allow Runes to be a free-for-all thing.
TL;DR: Runes are too important a part of Riot's money-making system and they'd have to find a good IP sink replacement if we want improvement to the Tier 3 Rune system we have now.
JustMyBassCannon2 votesYou...do remember that Tier 2 runes literally cost 1 IP right now, right?
They're about 2/3-3/4 the effect of Tier 3 runes and you could buy a full rune page after a single win of the day.
Granted, you still have to unlock rune slots, but it's not quite as difficult right now. It'll hold people over until they finally rework the system.
Gary B Enkelis1 votesAlso 
is a level 10 spell so brand new players won't get it for the tutorial anyway, or they'll have to wait for level 10 to try if they do the tutorial at level 1.
Xonra1 votesWould be a great time to use the system to its fullest. At level 10, you unlock a jungling tutorial. Makes it so you aren't overwhelming players with 70 tutorials as soon as they start.
Void Nargacuga16 votesIf you noticed they also intend to give him a much higher skill ceiling as well. This way he will have some use besides: "Do you know how to Jungle at the simplest level?"
Right now I can sum up his jungling like this:
And that kinda sums up what he does now.
It Hertz When IP6 votesIt's still better than Xin.
After Lvl 3: Are there any enemy champions in lane? If yes, gank. If no, farm.
Dr Poro4 votesXin is actually a pretty good beginner jungler. His skills are clear and simple. Perhaps a bit too simple.
warpenguin55511 votesWhy can't we have both
Limrick9 votesIt's good to have beginner champs in the game. The tutorial is bad, but it has nothing to do with WW being an easy champ at all. The new player experience in League is notoriously bad, and don't you think taking away one of the staple beginner champs would just make it worse?
flibitydoo1 votesthe first significant decision that any player has to make is "what champ should I pick?"
having solid choices to recommend to noobs is a good thing.
Teridax686 votesKeeping Warwick learner-friendly and implementing better tutorials are not mutually exclusive. Warwick has historically been a very simple, straightforward champion, so it would be more consistent to keep him as a relatively easy pick than to massively jack up his skill floor for no good reason. I also don't think designing or redesigning a champion "with noobs in mind" is really a bad thing: ideally, the perfect champion should be really easy to pick up, while still having near-infinite potential for mastery and competitive scalability, and should be able to intuitively teach their player how to master them and their role. Many champions have that ultra-high skill ceiling, but also a tremendous skill floor, and are thereby really unsatisfying to use unless you've practiced them a ton (e.g. Azir, who's still really strong among pros but performs terribly for practically everyone else). By contrast, only very few champions fail to provide a high skill ceiling or competitive standing along with their low skill floor (e.g. Amumu, Garen, Master Yi, current Warwick, etc.), and while they deserve to scale far better with mastery, their accessibility is a major plus.
I completely agree that the tutorials need to be revamped, though, and it's really weird that they haven't been addressed at all for so long, despite being fundamental to the new player experience, an experience that is notorious for being one of the most difficult, confusing and exclusionary among all video games. League of Legends is obviously an above-average difficulty game overall, and that's fine, but what's not fine is that is leans so heavily on that identity that it neglects a huge amount of potential new players and fosters a climate of elitism, which is kind of apparent even in the OP. Rewarding great players for making great plays is fantastic, but that can be done without shutting out players who are learning or simply not as focused on mechanics or strategy.
Handy Sandy 3 votes[deleted]
SaltyToplaneGoat48 votesIt might have been designed like that six years ago.
But now the game has evolved, and so should bots and tutorials.
AramsAreBest12 votesNo riot does not have enough time or money obviously.
Cheekynorth26 votesRiot does not have enough money
Nice joke
Toplane Fencer5 votesBefore the downvotes come, pretty sure this was sarcasm.
ArchangelJounin1 votesI'm just gonna say that is a fantastic joke because if riot had the money to provide a giant LCS stadium, and also like 10 gaming PC's for the pros, and an enourmous screen for viewers that have come to see the LCS pros play, then they have enough money and time to just code in a jungle tutorial. Furthermore, Riot also gets a lot of RP buyers a day so that is even more money.
ArchangelJounin1 votesWhen Riot runs out of money this is my face 
Vantia1 votesI know the original joke was sarcasm but I want to point out that all the stuff they do for live tournaments makes them more money, it's not like they did it for fun.
StainlessTweedle1 votesDidn't they already post a few days (weeks?) ago that they're updating the tutorials?
It Hertz When IP24 votesIt's less because of a lack of ganking intent and more because jungling is infinitely more complex in decision-making than laning, at least as far as bot programming is concerned.
In lane, the bots can have built in scripts to automatically CS and can be programmed to dodge skillshots, poke with abilities, and when under a certain HP% retreat. This is enough to succeed/excel in laning all the way into low Silver.
Jungling requires actual human minds to work; responding to developing lane drama, predict enemy jungler movements, pick the camp order based off enemy and allied team comp, know when to try to steal a dragon as opposed to taking a tower, steal enemy camps to deny their jungler key buffs... It is light years easier just to program bots to go duo top.
specter4242 votesdid you just say a role that has you against ai takes more decision making then laning where you are against a real player?
Battlecast Sona15 votesyes, because you can't fail your laning phase by choosing to kill your minions in the wrong order, but you can fail your jungle clear for choosing to kill camps in the wrong order. LOL
Toplane Fencer2 votesActually you can fail laning phase by not killing your minions in the right order/at the right time. Wave management op.
Battlecast Sona4 votesthere is a difference between "my wave is not set up for me to farm in the most efficient way" (because let's face it wave management only matters if you can properly last hit in the first place) and "I didn't start with the correct runes/masteries/camp and now I am going to be 3-4 levels down for the remainder of the game", and I think you know this. It's much harder to lose lane as a function of wave management than it is to fail at jungle, ESPECIALLY if you don't have any experience with the game.
rtbf221479702 votesBut the tutorial doesn't need to be that complicated! It's not like the current tutorial explains orb walking or animation canceling either but besides thornmail ashe pretty much gets the point across. Jung tutorial could just explain smite buffs and the importance of vision control imo.
Battlecast Sona2 votesI never said it needed to be complex - people were implying that jungling was super duper easy and required no decision making because you fight jungle camps and I was pointing out that it was patently un-true, there's actually quite a big barrier to entry to the jungle you just don't see it once you're past it (and most people pass it early on). I totally think there should be better tutorials.
CppL3 votesI dont think riot will waste money on this.I am not sure is riot even give a shit about new players anymore.Cause it looks like they dont.
R FLASH XD1 votesI dont think riot will waste money on this.I am not sure is riot even give a shit about new players anymore.Cause it looks like they dont.
Yea it's gonna cost at least 10 million.
Jungle Lux God2 votesYou can make simple champions that have both low skill floors and high skill ceilings. Look at Annie and Master Yi. Even though they are some of the simplest champions in the entire game, there are a lot of nuances and optimizations that you can make while playing those champions that you can tell their mains apart from a player that's playing them for the first time. In other words, you won't mistake Cowsep for a Bronze 5 Master Yi player despite Master Yi being such a simple champion.
Riot wants to rework Warwick in the same sense. They still want to keep him simple, but they also want to give him distinct points of mastery could really separate the good Warwick players from the bad Warwick players.
IcyPepper2 votesI mean, the current one is kinda... well... THORNMAIL ON ASHE OP!
That's Battle Training, isn't it? The one on Summoner's Rift is much better and more developed.
LuxannaVeritas2 votesI don't see a problem with Riot creating a jungler that's "easy to play."
Everyone starts out as noobs to certain games; I was clueless when I started League of Legends. We all have to start somewhere, and having certain champions easily accessible to new players makes the move into the game a lot easier.
Not saying that "Ashe with Thornmail" is a good tip; the tutorials do need a good cleaning.
EROTIC RAID BOSS2 votesI think its still good to have some junglers that are easy to learn with.
I agree that it shouldn't be something they limit themselves with though, just make the best warwick you can
LostFr0st1 votes[zombie-brand-facepalm] There are two tutorials.... one of them doesn't suck. Why does no one remember the second one?
Kingdom Corn1 votesBecause ryze is in the other one and ryze is a "beginner" champion
LostFr0st1 votesWhat does that have to do with the tutorial itself? It tells of farming, pushing, and objectives, among other stuff. It includes Garen, Ryze, and Ashe. Not just Ryze. They reworked Ryze a few months ago and are making a new client. I don't want them spending time on a new tutorial with the limitations of the old client hbu?
They also recently updated the new player site and asked for our feedback on it; so it's not like they aren't trying. (http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/1tzNfrj9-new-player-guide-updates ).
Guy Fox Teemo1 votesIts not limiting design choices. They're going to make him have more decison making and better mechanics then he has now. He's going to have a higher skill ceiling but have about the same skill floor.
They're not going to make him all of a Sudden into Azir, he'll most likely get a new passive, slightly different q, and w. And make his ult a jump or something.
º LB º1 votesno! dont tell riot to touch the tutorial! 
WILL someday be the meta! They're preparing us for the future. i mean, we've been kinda seeing it all lately :/ 
notmebuthim1 votesHas anyone ever built thornmail on ashe though? It could be dark horse OP.
IcyPepper1 votesDon't we already have 
and 
for that (beginner champion for jungle)?
SlashStriker1 votesWolves are usually agile creatures and i kinda expect Warwick to bring some agility with his new kit like Jump or Dash I don't agree that champions should be all that much noob friendly. Being all easy will bring champions mastery low. Warwick difficulty should not be raised a bit. It should be raised ALOT Currently his difficult is 1 / 10. It should go at least 4 / 10
Just the thing that warwick has lifesteal makes him easy enough to jungle. You think Sejuani or Gragas are hard to jungle? Are they that hard?
This is not 2009 where people just start playing mobas. This is 2017 Players should have more options how they play their champions. It took me 1 week to adapt to new Ryze and i can say i can play him quite well without being Ryze Master. He is not that hard to learn. He got tons of options on his kit and should be example for other champions
The most important part of a champion design is that most champions got 5 ability and they have to give lots of options and some sort of synchronization between each ability. Ryze again is example of a champion with tons of options on his kit
PiVoRx1 votesOne thing for noobs i would like to see is a clear list what champion is usable at what elo. I wasted 2 years learning Yi just to learn he sucks in higher leagues and has no use in competitive.
Alleo1 votesI mean...I learned how to jungle using hecarim and rengar...
Blue Moon Wolf1 votesThey did mention they want to raise his skill ceiling for his rework, but keep his skill floor the same. So pretty much he will still be "the jungler for beginners" with how simple his kit will be, but have some tricks up his sleeves that will seperate 
casuals from masters, letting everyone have their cake and eat it too.