Do you have less cs than the enemy adc? Blame the non meta top. You died in a top gank? Np. Blame the non meta support. You lost your mid lane horribly even without being ganked? Np, blame the non meta jungler. You are losing the game even when the non meta champion is the best of the team and it is carrying it? No problem, blame it for everything.
Things that people who try new things have to deal with every game.
Daedalus87110 votesI don't mind non-meta picks as long as they make sense.
You want to try AP Ryze with Deathcap because he doesn't really scale great with mana? Have at it. You want to build Anivia ADC? No. Just no.
Sypher The Poro2 votesI don't mind non-meta picks as long as they make sense.
You want to try AP Ryze with Deathcap because he doesn't really scale great with mana? Have at it. You want to build Anivia ADC? No. Just no.
ADC Lux forever. And yes, while rather hard to pull off it blows people's minds when you do.
rampaging poet1 votesI haven't heard of that before, but I've played Vel'Koz ADC with Lux support. Lots of peel and long-range, high-damage ults so either of us could secure kills.
Sypher The Poro2 votes[{quoted}](name=rampaging poet,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=HARZf68o,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2015-05-01T01:38:44.296+0000)
I haven't heard of that before, but I've played Vel'Koz ADC with Lux support. Lots of peel and long-range, high-damage ults so either of us could secure kills.
I did full-crit Vel'Koz before. While your abilities do no damage, the true damage still hurts a ton and your CC makes you very effective at chasing. Still got a ton of off-meta stuff to try, which I usually do on the PBE.
Scrambled Anivia4 votesYou want to build Anivia ADC? No. Just no.
i've only did it once lol. cause someone in champ select challenged me that i couldn't do it. we won. match history link "proof" =>http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1736464485/208969059?tab=overview
Daedalus8713 votesI'm not saying it can't work because anything with range could work if you know what you're doing. But Anivia ADC doesn't really bring anything extra to the table when compared to, say, ADC Ahri.
Ariel the Cruel3 votesCrittleSticks
wop3 votesTaric support? Who does that? That's even less meta than ADC Anivia
Tylo Snoyer1 votesRyze scales much better with mana.
Daedalus8711 votesNo, his damage scales better with AP. Let's say an AP build has 0 bonus mana and 300 AP more than his mana build. Let's look at how much mana he would need to over come that 300 AP on each of his skills:
Q: With the 300 AP advantage, it does 300x.55 = 165. At max rank, it has 4% mana scaling, so he needs 165/0.04 = 4125 mana to match.
W: 300x0.4 = 120. 120/0.025 = 4800 mana.
E: 1st proc, 300x0.3 = 90. 90/0.02 = 4500 mana. Bounces: 300x15 = 45. 45/0.01 = 4500 mana.
Ult no mana scaling.
Thus in order to do the same amount of damage that he would do with 600 AP, a Ryze with 300 AP would need at least 4125 mana more than the base Ryze.
How much damage does a respectable build path give?
(650) + 
(1000) + 
(300) + 
(400) + 
(1000) = 3350 mana. So even when making some bad item choices, his damage still doesn't scale as hard with Mana as it does with AP. Just to throw out how this build gives Ryze, its 0.03x(3350 + 1277) + 60 +80 = 278.8 AP.
Meanwhile a build like: + + 
+ 
+ 
gives 1.3x(0.03x(1277 + 1650) + 120 + 70 + 120 +80 +60) = 699.1 AP, which is over 400 AP more than the mana build. That makes it even more in favor of an AP build.
Now this doesn't take into account how survivable Ryze is with the different builds, but it's enough to say that he scales better with AP than mana.
Tylo Snoyer1 votesI guess my sense of "better" was geared toward his overall effectiveness in the game. Mana + survivability would be more applicable.
Nybx4life8 votesSo what if your entire team is made of meta picks yet you're still losing?
Laughing Fish26 votes
Señor Karthus41 votesSo what if your entire team is made of meta picks yet you're still losing?
Everybody knows that a meta pick is insta win. You can't possibly lose with a meta mid or meta jungle. It never happens.
Aych Pii28 votesSilly, meta picks are only strong when they're on the other team. If we lose, it's the trash 
and 
's fault for playing a bandwagon FotM pick when they don't actually know how to use it.
Mandaari5 votesWhat if both teams are all meta picks?
Señor Karthus32 votesWhat if both teams are all meta picks?
Both nexus explode right at the beginning of the game and both teams are promoted to Platinum.
Vistha Kai2 votes
to your heart.
Inspector JamJam11 votesSo what if your entire team is made of meta picks yet you're still losing?
lag
SelflessTeammate8 votesBeen playing just under a year, I used Clairvoyance the other day with Nocturne. I use Clairvoyance a lot in the jungle, no one else ever does. Ever. To the point where a Nidalee said this:
"wait why can we see them?"
I've actually liked Clairvoyance in the jungle since I was pre-30 and still like to use it. Reasons withstanding for another time, I actually feel awkward saying that because of how heavily the meta is enforced, and how shameful the very notion of "creativity" (which is synonymous with being a newbie/scrub) is.
Part of the game is seriously not listening to people when you find something that works for you and your team. If something works consistently, there is no other proof needed as to why you do something original. Or anti-meta. Whichever term you prefer.
EDIT: A quote I like: “I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone
Ronnie Law4 votesCV is actually amazing for the jungler in low tier games where nobody knows how to ward. And I don't mean that the team isn't warding. Warding has gotten to the point where it's something you just do. So you drop your little ward somewhere pointless and move on, "See, I warded."
At low levels, people just can't seem to clue in to how important vision is AND where you need it.
This is why CV is amazing on the jungler (assuming you are not flash dependent). Scan blue. You will learn something, every time. Either: A) They are neglecting their blue/are behind on clears. B) They are not neglecting their blue buff/are ahead on clears. C) They are on blue buff RIGHT NOW.]
Every single one of those is VERY useful information. You can predict invades, you can follow where the enemy jungler should be, and if they aren't, you can bet there's a gank or a counterjungle brewing. You can check dragons and barons if wards are down. You can check bushes or prevent a blind push. Even if you don't tag any enemies, now you know where they are NOT.
At low levels it is EXTREMELY valuable. The reason it falls off is that at higher levels, people can actually ward effectively.
I especially like using it to scout out first buys, you can see exactly who is bringing what to lane. As the jungler, if you can spot a bad first buy, you have a good lead on a lane to go get FB in.
Spacesuit Spiff4 votestbh this is the main argument against non-meta. especially since the others will often feed in despair of the non-meta even when you do well. too afraid to commit to a game they think they're gonna lose.
IcyPepper3 votestbh this is the main argument against non-meta.
Pretty sure that non-meta picks don't force people to feed or not commit to a game. Sounds like it's on them, actually.
Nybx4life3 votesIt is on them. 1st rule of ranked: Your play is based on your performance, solely and entirely.
Can't say you lost top lane because you thought that Kennen/Orianna bot combo was a troll and you decide to counter-troll them, when they steamroll their lane and you feed your opponent.
Zmuecat2 votesSir, you clearly do not understand the game. When you play, everything needs to be the same. This is not because people are bad, or people are biased, but because of a mechanic within the game.
You see, when someone, say, picks support Orianna. The game runs an algorithm, and searches all known games where this champion in this role is picked. If it is picked less than about 8% of the time within the current meta, all the cameras on the team with Oriana will be locked on the champion. It's called the 'One of these thing is not like the others' mechanic.
Most people choose to opt out of this because it's selected off by default, but the game brings up a giant hint window in the center telling all the people on the team "LOOK BOT LANE SOMETHING DIFFERENT OMG DID YOU SEE THAT IT'S LIKE HE'S A HACKER WTH." It causes a lot of games to be lost because it's so intrusive.
Spacesuit Spiff4 votesYeah it is, obviously. But at the end of the day you're losing games from it too, and you gotta take that into consideration. Blaming the team doesn't help, since a big part of soloq is knowing how to handle your childish teammates with kid gloves.
Back when I was spamming Poppy jungle, in about 20% of my games people would troll because of it. You can expect that pretty consistently over a lot of games. I played her anyway and had a >50% winrate even with the free losses due to people not liking the pick. You gotta weigh the power of your non-meta pick against the fact that a lot of your games are going to be much harder because your teammates throw a fit over it, and sometimes it is worth.
IcyPepper3 votesOne trick I've learned is to talk to people in champion select. If you have decent human beings for teammates, you can appeal to them.
Last night, I duo queued, but the way I went about it everyone was fine with it during champion select while we were discussing roles. My partner took mid instead of support (I was adc), but because we talked about it instead of forcing it we got the support main to support and the mid main to mid.
I'm sure off-meta picks could work like that too. I asked if I could Fiora adc, team said no so I didn't. I asked if I could Orianna support (in normals tho, can't compete yet) and people were fine with it. I won't always get my way, but I'm less likely to piss people off if I take the initiative to be nice.
fromdusktilldawn3 votescough bard top cough
Drukyul20 votesbard top is about as good as bard everywhere else
that is, not very
Laser Tornado7 votesHe has potential as a support. He has no potential anywhere else.
58738074DEL14 votes[deleted]
RavenKouhai6 votesBard jungle for the win if done right
"if done right" applies to bard everywhere
50000000000000005 votes"if done right" applies to everyone everywhere
Silents4293 votesWell the non meta pick I had to deal with today was full tank jungle Yi.
Cinderhulk and Righteous glory. By the time everyone else surrendered while I was still a massive threat.
Lucky for us we went against a jungle Yi to show how stupid tank Yi was in comparison.
Do I think he lost us the game? Yes.
I don't think non meta picks are always a cause, but honestly given my history with them I see why people usually hate dealing with them. Tank Yi doesn't even work when thinking about it, why the hell would it work in practice?
Only Play Darius2 votesOfftank Yi can work rather well, but he has no crowd control so building straight tank on him is idiotic.
Maybe he's one of the tryhards who heard that Cinderhulk is overpowered right now.
Bemapon2 votesThere are off meta picks that can work. Others do not. Playing full tank Yi is like playing full tank Kat. Useless.
I have done some pretty stupid offmeta picks, however most of the time I am not doing bad.
Ex: Jungle Veigar. I will never do it again, but I did better than most of my team somehow.
Slamurai Jack4 votesWell the non meta pick I had to deal with today was full tank jungle Yi.
Cinderhulk and Righteous glory. By the time everyone else surrendered while I was still a massive threat.
Lucky for us we went against a jungle Yi to show how stupid tank Yi was in comparison.
Do I think he lost us the game? Yes.
I don't think non meta picks are always a cause, but honestly given my history with them I see why people usually hate dealing with them. Tank Yi doesn't even work when thinking about it, why the hell would it work in practice?
Obviously full tank Yi is dumb, he doesn't do any damage. But a tanky Yi with 1-2 damage items and then full tank is a menace because he's too tanky to focus but does too much damage to ignore.
Señor Karthus2 votes[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=HARZf68o,comment-id=00040003,timestamp=2015-04-30T23:24:44.451+0000)
Obviously full tank Yi is dumb, he doesn't do any damage. But a tanky Yi with 1-2 damage items and then full tank is a menace because he's too tanky to focus but does too much damage to ignore.
You can't just do something mindlessly. If I go Vladi support is because: 1- I can poke a lot with my Q and E for no mana. 2- I can take the hits for my adc and heal with my hugh sustain. 3- I can slow them down with my puddle while I deal damage when they engage or there is a gank. 4- My ult makes me and my adc to deal 15% more damage to them.
There are clear points that makes my Vladi support valid as a support. BUt if you go Eve, almost non of these are going to be accomplished.
MTempty1 votesThose points can be made for every champ. I can say "Support shen is a great idea. I can set up ganks, give my adc a shield, and have him heal off cs due to my q". I can say Mundo support is a great idea: "I'm able to heal through poke post 6, i have manaless poke, cc reduction, and an ad steroid to make up for my lack of items." Sounds great when you say it but in actuality its a load of crap and neither of those picks currently function (Mundo relic shield support was a thing for release week.) Stating a champions strengths alone don't make it usable. You have to consider this: What is the enemy team bringing? Because I will take a Morg supp over a shen support every day of my life. Its a poor matchup. And a lot of these off-meta picks suffer against the standard picks. I'm not saying they aren't worth exploring, saw a kennen support do really well the other day against a Janna. But you should understand your role in the teamcomp as well as crucial aspects of lane, scaling, etc.
DatPikachuTho3 votesMundo Support IS a great idea. Mundo ANYTHING is a great idea.
Mundo goes where he pleases.
Conus253 votesI tried ap draven because I thought his q would stack with lich bane. Lets just say the match ended at 20 minutes....
Señor Karthus9 votesI tried ap draven because I thought his q would stack with lich bane. Lets just say the match ended at 20 minutes....
You have the LoL wikia to consult scaling and synergies for every skill and you have custom games to try them before trolling with your shit on an actual game and ruining the experience to other 9 people.
Conus251 votesYeah but I checked online, it says he is a viable ap pick. http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/ap-draven-by-laggermeister-343370
ABlueQuaker3 votes
Señor Karthus2 votes[{quoted}](name=Red Arrow,realm=OCE,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=HARZf68o,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2015-05-01T02:54:44.549+0000)
I love playing Taric jungle. He is awesome. I make a different build tho. 
Ariel the Cruel3 votesExcept... meta or not. We already know it always the jungler's fault. [/joke]
