the only thing im afraid of with tank/vanguard reworks is that riot will remove waveclear.

Paroe·Feb 17, 2017·3 votes·969 views

EVERY champion, from the lowliest support filth (braum ;-;) to the most powerful marksman in the game deserves waveclear built into their kit, and it should be reliable lane-based waveclear.

Without waveclear, it becomes very difficult to play champions effectively and they become "press x" bots with no real use besides being a meat shield and their major ability. Im afraid riot, in their infinite wisdom, will remove waveclear from many of the reworked champions kits for no real reason other than "herp a derp power budget"...

14 Comments

MrHaZeYoFeb 17, 20174 votes

Having Wave clear is generally a trade off for something else.

ParoeFeb 17, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Having Wave clear is generally a trade off for something else.

No? Having waveclear makes a champion feel good to play in lane; you ever tried to lane as shen? Its abysmal, especially if youre against someone who HAS good waveclear already.

Waveclear doesnt even have to be "one ability and the wave is dead"; its usually 2~3 uses and the wave is dead. Braum, for example, could have his Q pass through minions and he would be a viable top laner (imagine if braum were viable as a top laner... he could compete with favorites like maokai as a team fighter tank).

How many popular champions dont have waveclear? How many champions in general dont have waveclear who are still good? There arent many. Shen comes to mind, but hes a press R champ in pro play who gets constantly bullied and shoved out.

Starcraft243verFeb 17, 20174 votes

Yes having waveclear is a tradeoff. Wtf.

Most champions who have a low waveclear will either go tiamat or sunfire to get some.

ParoeFeb 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yes having waveclear is a tradeoff. Wtf.

Most champions who have a low waveclear will either go tiamat or sunfire to get some.

How many of them actually do that while in lane? How many champions who dont have waveclear of some kind feel good to play? How many champions who dont have waveclear are used competetively?

Waveclear should be something EVERY champion has built in, that items like bami's cinder and tiamat augment. The items should NOT be any champions only form of waveclear unless they are not meant to be able to lane (such as warwick; but even warwick has a very spammable Q that can act as waveclear with enough CDR).

Starcraft243verFeb 17, 20171 votes

People playing warwick top atm build both tiamat AND sunfire ... just saying. Fiora and wukong have a low waveclear and build tiamat, Vayne has a bad waveclear and builds statiik, shen builds sunfire and so on.

Waveclear should be something EVERY champion has built in

who said that ? you suddendly dropped a master in game design ?

Succubús GFFeb 17, 20172 votes

They literally gave kat lb, and many other reworked champions waveclear simply because waveclear is essential in the game, regardless if you see it that way or not

ParoeFeb 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Afk Warding,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lOv5zd0o,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2017-02-17T11:10:25.038+0000)

They literally gave kat lb, and many other reworked champions waveclear simply because waveclear is essential in the game, regardless if you see it that way or not

^ Yup. Its more of a given, especially if riot wants games to close faster in general. The only new champions who dont have waveclear from design are supports. If waveclear were part of a power budget, you would see a lot less champions with it and a lot less kits that have the ability to shove; because if you go by the logic of waveclear is a big part of the power budget then shoving should be a champions entire concept.

WoonStruckFeb 17, 20171 votes

Kat already had moderate waveclear.

Leblanc didn't need the waveclear, and its definitely a part of why she's currently pick/ban in competitive. She has everything too easy now. Her lack of waveclear used to actually be a trade-off. Now that trade-off isn't there.

ParoeFeb 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Kat already had moderate waveclear.

Leblanc didn't need the waveclear, and its definitely a part of why she's currently pick/ban in competitive. She has everything too easy now. Her lack of waveclear used to actually be a trade-off. Now that trade-off isn't there.

Leblanc had a lack of waveclear? What? Her initiscape has ALWAYS been a potent waveclear tool. The rework just gave her even more waveclear.

{quoted}

The game would be better off if most champions didn't have waveclear.

Riot won't remove waveclear from just tanks though; that notion of yours is incorrect.

Fear doesnt always make sense; the thread isnt "Riot will remove waveclear in the tank/vanguard rework", its "im afraid that riot might remove waveclear in the tank/vanguard rework".
Riot doesnt exactly have a good track record in changing anything but damage, ya know?

And i disagree the game would be better with less waveclear. Less shove for sure, but every champion needs waveclear of some kind otherwise they just feel bad to play. When left alone in lane for extended periods of time, EVERY champion should be able to apply pressure. Not just damage dealers.

CatastropFeb 17, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Leblanc had a lack of waveclear? What? Her initiscape has ALWAYS been a potent waveclear tool. The rework just gave her even more waveclear.

You had to burn your ult for that, hardly "potent" waveclear.

ParoeFeb 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You had to burn your ult for that, hardly "potent" waveclear.

245+0.6AP at a time where you got much higher amounts of AP much faster means that it was, and still is even at 225+0.6AP, a fantastic waveclear tool. Even if it just clears the caster minions and severely damage the warrior minions.

{quoted}

People playing warwick top atm build both tiamat AND sunfire ... just saying. Fiora and wukong have a low waveclear and build tiamat, Vayne has a bad waveclear and builds statiik, shen builds sunfire and so on.

who said that ? you suddendly dropped a master in game design ?

And i said, in a previous post, even champions like warwick who are not designed with the lane in mind cam have a spammable ability that acts as waveclear. Warwick does not have a "waveclear" ability; he also is not designed with the lane in mind, however, and his 3 second CD Q is powerful enough to act as waveclear.

As for vayne, marksmen in general have waveclear in the form of basic attacks being very potent. Vayne and quinn in particular are "duelist" marksmen; their kit is designed explicitly to 1v1 and/or pick. You could rightly argue that some marksman without waveclear could use some, though. But balancing that with crit is a nightmare that leads to many other problems, especially when marksman itemization has some of the best waveclear augmenting items in the entire game.

Succubús GFFeb 17, 20171 votes

Kats waveclear was garbage, you risked so much if you shunpod into a wave. Leblancs waveclear was pretty garbage, and they just nerfed her waveclear twice lol