Why is Ryze such a hard champ to get done right? Is there anything that can be done?

Forhonor321··4 votes·3,617 views

So I was going to post this in Gameplay+ but as that has seemingly disappeared I might as well post here and hope for some good answers.

This is just something that has popped in my mind while thinking back on the various jokes of League, mainly the "new Ryze rework." I mean he's been reworked, what, 3-4 times now? That's pretty joke worthy. But then it got me thinking, "why? why has he been through this many reworks and he still can't really work?"

Let's go over his work not counting his alpha since I can't find any info on it:

  1. First rendition had his passive make all of his abilities lower their cooldowns whenever he used another ability, plus his overload (which was a target point and click I believe), his prison, flux and his old ult of spell vamp and MS.

  2. Passive gets changed to casting spells then grants him a shield, Overload is more similar to now, W and E are still basically the same, and ult is the same active but now gave passive CDR. Oh and it can also damage enemies he hits nearby.

  3. Current one: Gain AP based on Mana, Overload is a shit-ton more complex with adding in his old shield ability, W is roughly the same but can be empowered by E, E is dramatically changed and is more of the setup for the rest of his other abilities, and his ult is changed to a very odd team utility ability.

So with his various renditions, he seems to be this character of a very heavy spellslinger, what with heavy priority on Q, but at the same time has various tools for waveclear, hard CC and now some team utility (which I find to be more troublesome than actually helpful). It almost feels like while Riot wants to keep this archtype he has, they just can't hit the mark to a point where he is interesting and can be a low difficultly, high skill cap champ without making him busted or worthless or whatever else.

Now, I should say that I don't really play him, nor have I played him in a very long time (I wonder why) so I can't fully say what his problems are but if I really need to express my opinion, I would honestly say they need a huge rework on him and just redo everything. I've probably upset the various fans that still play him but seriously, look at where he is right now. His winrate has been slowly climbing the last few patches but it's still around 44-46% from what I'm seeing on various sites. He's a problematic champ from what I've seen and played against. He can't fulfill this fantasy or feel of what his character should be like without breaking the game/meta. And overall it should not be healthy for a champ to be reworked this many times, trying to keep the same kit or variations of it and not expect it to be broken or too difficult to understand.

Again, I don't really play him, I haven't seen him in a long time so I don't fully know the problems, but I'm sure as hell trying to understand them and just throwing out what I think.

5 Comments

Frosted Tips3 votes

Easy remove his targeted, ranged, hard CC on a basic ability. Then we can work on balance.

Danjeng2 votes

1 million pt Ryze here. It's a common misconception that Ryze is a super complex champion when people read his kit but it's actually quite simple in practice and I would rate his difficulty 7/10. The problem with Ryze is not his targeted CC (0.75 - 1.5 second root) as Annie (1.75 second stun) and TF (2 second stun) are nearly not as problematic as Ryze.

The reason Ryze does so poorly is that he functions very well in competitive due to the very nature of his kit. There are multiple factors that make Ryze so good in pro play. He has 1) Excellent waveclear 2) Is a reliable blind pick 3) can coordinate picks well with jungler 4) HIS ULT WHICH NOBODY IN SOLO QUEUE CAN USE WELL.

I even wager that the current Ryze was designed to be used in pro play, and is still balanced around pro play. And then they nerfed him. And nerfed him again. And again. And again. The old-old Ryze of 2 reworks ago wasn't nearly as problematic as he was now and he sat mostly around a healthy 48% winrate despite having significantly stronger roots. He was outdated and facerolly though so it makes sense he was reworked.

If Ryze is to actually be balanced, he must receive changes to his waveclear and his ultimate. These two things are the biggest reasons he is picked even now by pros. And he has a bad winrate in pro stats. Ryze is supposed to be a battle mage who does DPS as he's always been before this rework. But in reality now he is more of a 24/7 waveclear cancer bot who one shots you with his burst late game. I have seen LoL graphs and streamers calling Ryze a burst champion. This ain't right. This rework was a mistake.

cabbysb1 votes

currently none of the champions are 'done right' considering runes reforged.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Because they want to keep all of these "core attributes":

  • Naturally tanky
  • Scalles with mana (doesn't need to build damage to deal damage, same issue with Ezreal)
  • Medium Range
  • Point&Click Ranged Hard CC
  • Gatling gun spellcaster with more than decent damage with few clicks

All of this as his main kit, the Ultimate is a bonus that adds to this.

General Matty1 votes

Change his ultimate, as well as remove his point and clicks and make them skillshots.

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