Why do people seem to forget that Lee Sin

M Schumacher··4 votes·412 views

Is the SOLE reason that tank junglers are unviable and considered troll picks (except maybe Amumu but any Lee Sin that knows how to breathe will counterjungle him). This guy has been broken since release, is a pick/ban in every single game all the way up to the e$port$ level. He has a low risk high reward kit that is absolutely toxic to the game. Make a bad choice on Lee? No problem, just W to ally minion/ward/champion. Still chasing you? Just kick them away. And his q is one of the most fluid skill shots in the game, you don't even have to think about aiming it if you ward hop in kick Q in mid air Q to them and by this point they are already dead.

He has unrivaled mobility, more than respectable damage, more utility than almost every other jungler in the game, and he doesn't even have to pay for it. I'm sick and tired of seeing him. He's the Lucian of the jungle and has been for 3 YEARS. He's been the top jungler for 3 years and remember at that ONE POINT when feral flare junglers were making an impact and could actually complete with Lee? What happened? Oh yeah it immediately got nerfed to unviable status on all of but like 4 champions.

Remember when Skarner got those buffs and was actually viable? Yeah that lasted all of 1 patch and now he's back to garbage status. But Lee never gets touched. Seriously Riot if you want us to believe you're going to start making mobility have its pros and cons start with Lee Sin.

8 Comments

Sightless664 votes

First, no one is forgetting it, it's all anyone on the boards ever talks about. Lee Sin Op probably makes up half of the posts nowadays.

Second, tank junglers have other problems. The jungle has gotten harder since their season 2 heyday and has become single-target focused, which benefits AD champions more than it benefits tanks. AD junglers have had major sustain options added to them (health and mana given for dealing damage works great for assassins and fighters). Additionally, gold flow increases benefit carry junglers more than they benefit tanks, who were able to subsist on a low gold income.

The thing is, tanks have a lot of problems, but they don't carry benefits to make up for it. They have some risk of getting invaded and murder by most of the AD junglers (Rengar, Kha, etc are all capable of invading and murdering junglers just like Lee does), but they can't pressure similarly when ahead and they aren't resilient when they get behind. They clear slower, they don't necessarily gank better because their CC is compensated for by low damage (whereas Rengar can jump out of a bush, root someone with E and still have plenty of damage) and they can't use the gold as well. These are not Lee-specific problems. These are problems with the jungle being consistently designed away from the things tanks need and towards what fighters and assassins need.

67chrome3 votes

Is the SOLE reason that tank junglers are unviable and considered troll picks

No, he's not.

Reason tank junglers are weak has everything to do with jungle income.

In seasons 1 & 2, the jungle was essentially a secondary support roll. There was low income available in the jungle, so the qualities junglrs needed was solid ganking (high cc/mobility) and a solid end-game without a reliance on item scaling (CC). Defensive items were also notably more potent relative to their cost, especially with Force of Nature being a thing. Ganks were essentially the only way to make gold, so running with very powerful gankers was a solid way to go. With a tank jungler like Maokai, you could camp lane with 2 gold/5 items and be set.

Now the inverse is true - jungle income opportunities are massive with the jungler items, so clear potential is the predominant focus of junglers. Defensive items are also pretty even in cost effeciency to offensive currently, especially with Force of Nature's removal and the weakened passives of Omen and Warden's Mail. As such - junglers that build offense to clear even faster and can transition the gaps in clear time to reasonably successful ganks are the best junglers in the meta.


None of that has anything to do with Lee Sin bumping tank junglers out of viability. If Lee Sin was removed from the game you'd still have a veraity of fast-clear, respectable ganker assassins as the top tier picks.

Only way to change that is if Riot fixes the income disparity between low-clear tank junglers and fast-clear everyone else.

Hoi Im Temmo1 votes

I'm not a jungler, and in rather low elo - but while lee sin is undeniably strong, I dont lose to him consistently or anything. Champs like Trist, Gnar, and (personal prolem, not actual) Irelia, are the only ones I dont seem to beat.

Learn 2 Swim1 votes

I called it and spammed it on GD for over 3 weeks. Lee Sin gets a love tap, Elise and Eve will get gutted. Lee Sins "nerfs" will make him even more powerful. Not many believed me. ** Morello publicly stated on his twitter he is scared to nerf Lee because Lee mains would get upset. HE LITERALLY SAID THIS.**

Crying about him is a waste of time. He will be the top jungler until LoL dies. Accept it since its been like 2 years and this BS champion has always been the best.

BlackRaven1 votes

I called it and spammed it on GD for over 3 weeks. Lee Sin gets a love tap, Elise and Eve will get gutted. Lee Sins "nerfs" will make him even more powerful. Not many believed me. ** Morello publicly stated on his twitter he is scared to nerf Lee because Lee mains would get upset. HE LITERALLY SAID THIS.**

Crying about him is a waste of time. He will be the top jungler until LoL dies. Accept it since its been like 2 years and this BS champion has always been the best.

khazix and rengar are just so unviable right? stop mentioning lee when there are tons of junglers that do their jobs well.

OneSlickPhony1 votes

Shaco does well against Lee Sin.

jk

Hayaishi1 votes

Lee Sin, Fiddlesticks, Amumu, WW, Rammus, Nocturne, Master Yi, Vi, Jarvan, Kha Zix, Wukong, Pantheon.

These are the jungler you generally see in Soloq, seems pretty versatile too me.

Kuroi861 votes

What makes Lee Sin strong. Soloque and the fact that laners ignore jungle pings. They forget the fact that a tank jungler will be more useful than Lee late game due to their dive potential and CC. They forget that while Lee is great 1v1, the moment you have an ally on your side, his chances plummet.

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