Gnar's E Attack Speed Buff

Gnart Even Close·Oct 5, 2015·3 votes·852 views

I main Gnar, although I have been playing some trolly things like Yasuo jungle recently. Anyways, Gnar really doesn't need the attack speed steroid on his E. I think it should be removed entirely, and he should be compensated elsewhere. Maybe let his ult scale with total AD instead of just bonus AD(obviously would be a lower scaling, maybe 15% instead of 20% bonus)? This would also help alleviate the problem of his kit being ridiculously overloaded. Thoughts?

Edit: Like FANTAsticorange pointed out, this change would favor Mega Gnar instead of Mini Gnar. Maybe just lower the cooldown of his E in compensation?

29 Comments

FANTAsticOrangeOct 5, 20153 votes

When you say to compensate aside from the nerf, you have to keep in mind that Mega Gnar is more Juggernaut playstyle and Mini Gnar is more Kite playstyle. When you remove attack speed in Mini Gnar for getaways and chasing, or just general trades, you can't just add onto his Mega Gnar form: it would leave the two sides of Gnar unbalanced, and make people favor one over the other GREATLY, rather than Situationally. I can see where you're coming from with the removal of the E steroid, but that would make room to buff Mini Gnar, not Mega Gnar.

MimyOct 5, 20151 votes

He wants to "compensate"him.... Like veigar? Veigar

FANTAsticOrangeOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

He wants to "compensate"him.... Like veigar?

Bah, Veigar is getting hit so hard with buzz lately, way more than he needs. The fact that he got minor buffs to his Q scaling and W timing doesn't negate his obviously weaknesses throughout the entire game.

He's like an Anti-mage; he IS a good counter-pick, very situational, but is also very risky if punished right.

Gnart Even CloseOct 5, 20151 votes

pls no. not like veigar. at least Gnar has some degree of counterplay (I know Veigar has counterplay, but it's Annie level counterplay).

MimyOct 5, 20151 votes

But still, gnar isn't broken.. Why try to fix him.. I like him in mini gnar form I enjoy that attack speed he needs it to set off his W..

Gnart Even CloseOct 5, 20151 votes

Gnar already has over 1.00 attack speed late game without any attack speed items, runes, or masteries. It's not really healthy for his kit to be so overloaded. His W certainly doesn't need to be buffed (it gives % health damage and a movement speed buff). Furthermore, it isn't part of Gnar's core identity and Youmuu's exists if you want that short boost of attack speed. It also gives movement speed and armor pen, which are always nice for Gnar. I would recommend it, except Gnar likes to build tank and prefers other items.

MimyOct 5, 20151 votes

wow.. 1.00 attack speed.. that's soo much..

you do realize he's a secondary marksman? and him being the only one who could face Darius right now.. yea.. he needs it..

Gnart Even CloseOct 5, 20151 votes

He's fighter secondary tank right now... He used to be a secondary marksmen, but isn't anymore. Also, the problem is that Darius needs nerfs, which he is getting, not that Gnar is too weak.

MimyOct 5, 20151 votes

Just no.. I like Gnar how he is..

Gnart Even CloseOct 5, 20151 votes

I love playing Gnar, but his playstyle is simply unhealthy. So many toplaners are broken right now, and hopefully they can be brought in line for diversity. Gnar could use some minor changes as he hasn't been touched since 5.3.

Gnart Even CloseOct 5, 20151 votes

lol true. I was just offering a suggestion off the top of my head. I definitely would not suggest a buff to his Q or W, but maybe the cooldown of his E could be slightly lowered at all ranks, maybe by like 1 second?

luckmalloryOct 5, 20151 votes

His E is like the weakest attack speed steroid in the game. No one cares about that and that isn't where he needs nerfs

FANTAsticOrangeOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

His E is like the weakest attack speed steroid in the game. No one cares about that and that isn't where he needs nerfs

Gnar leaps to the target location, gaining bonus attack speed for 3 seconds. Attack Speed: 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60%

I think you're overlooking the scaling of this ability. Even at level one, +20% Attack Speed on his base Speed is 0.625 --> 0.750, which could easily make or break a trade in any situation.

To Add, later in the game, say with Botrk at level 11, Gnar should have around 1.3/1.4 Attack speed in Mini form, level 4 Hop would shoot that up to almost 2.0, which is ridiculous for say 20 minutes in.

luckmalloryOct 5, 20151 votes

You always level his E last so its 20 percent basically the entire game until pretty late. Also compare it to other attack speed steroids in the game. Its relatively weak compared to most others. The utility of the ability is what is over powered. not the garbage AS steroid

FANTAsticOrangeOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Also compare it to other attack speed steroids in the game. Its relatively weak compared to most others.

Draven's Blood Rush increases his attack speed by 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40% for 3 seconds.
Ezreal's Rising Spell Force passively increases his attack speed by 10% whenever he hits a target with any of his abilities. This bonus lasts for 6 seconds and stacks up to 5 times.
Jinx's Pow-Pow causes her basic attacks grant bonus attack speed for 2.5 seconds, stacking up to 3 times for a maximum 0% - 70% increase, plus 10 / 13.3 / 16.7 / 20 / 23.3%. This bonus lasts for 2.5 seconds and stacks up to three times (up to 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 / 70%).
Kog'Maw's Caustic Spittle passively increases his attack speed by 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 / 30%.

I could keep going, but I think you can see what I'm trying to point out. Mini Gnar is designated as a Marksman and specializes in kiting, thus he is given an Attack Speed buff on a less than 10 second cooldown (Ready always for any lane trade) equal to or greater, if not very close, to those of other marksmen.

There is nothing "trashy" about it.

You always level his E last so its 20 percent basically the entire game until pretty late.

It's more situational in some cases. It can be more game affecting than you'd think, especially if you're behind.

luckmalloryOct 5, 20151 votes

I should of been more clear. We are talking about actives that give attack speed buffs. Not passives. Its an ability that requires a use to get the attack speed. Therefore ezreals and kog maws are infinitely better because they have no cooldown.

Jinx is a mix between a passive and an ability however it isn't even comparable as her numbers are a ton higher at every single level.

Draven maxes W second and it has a reset which means he can permanently use it so long as he catches an Axe. The static cooldown is also much lower than gnars as gnars is an absurd 17 seconds at level 1 and you don't level it again until level 14.

It is weak.

also stop using that "it's under 10 seconds." no it isn't, unless for some dumb reason you max it first it will be 18 seconds with no cdr or 10.8 with 40 percent CDR but you aren't getting 40 percent CDR until late game if you even do so for most of early game you have a rather hefty cooldown on an already weak attack speed buff. As someone who plays gnar, the entire laning phase i almost never use my E unless i have a sure kill or am getting a gank or i need t oescape. I rarely ever use it for the attack speed especially since a good gnar will save his E to engage with mega gnar.

FANTAsticOrangeOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Ok, I am exiting the conversation at this point. I have nothing more to add. I said Gnar's E was not trash and it is certainly game affecting, and if the time may come that Riot decides to remove it? It won't be forgotten, things will change; it will have to be compensated for.

You pointed out a lot of flaws in my paraphrasing to make a point, but you're just being stubborn over-looking what I'm trying to say. Mini Gnar's E is more game affecting than just the mobility. It synergizes with his kit. The buff is strong. There, I'm done. Thanks.

FANTAsticOrangeOct 5, 20151 votes

Idk who the salty-ass mofo is that downvoted you, but let me even that out.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/1328101861_Thumbs_Up.png

Gnart Even CloseOct 5, 20151 votes

Thanks man! :)

FANTAsticOrangeOct 5, 20151 votes

Anyways, my opinion is Yes, the Steroid on his E seems a little unnecessary with how it scales with his passive stats he already it awarded. That being said, by removing the Attack Steroid, he will have a Gaping hole in his sustained trades as Mini Gnar, which actually could be compensated for making his playstyle more healthy.

Gnar is known for having a stunning teamfight.. as Mega Gnar, and pretty mobile and harass-full laning phase.. as Mini Gnar. Perhaps, if both Hop in Mini Form and Mega Form lost the Attack Speed buff, and a little bit of the bonus HP scaling, then Riot could buff their late game scalings from their passive.. maybe making late game Mini Gnar a little more impactful?

I don't know. It seems a little unusual, and a bit redundant to be honest, that players have to constantly worry about transforming into Mega Gnar in the laning phase while split pushing or into Mini Gnar in the late game, it's just pointless sometimes! By balancing out the effectiveness of the two forms throughout the game, at the cost of a bit of power in mobility, then maybe Gnar can feel a little more fun.. all the time.

Gnart Even CloseOct 5, 20151 votes

That would be awesome! Maybe more base AD to Mini Gnar late game would be fair compensation. The HP scaling on his jump is interesting, but really unnecessary. It is imo bad game design to have damage scale with tankiness and vice versa. It wouldn't really make sense for it to scale with AD, so maybe they could make it another one of his AP scalings and give it better base damage for Mega Gnar? If they removed Frozen Mallet from the game it would make Gnar a lot more fun to play against, but it would significantly hurt Mini Gnar. Making Sunfire Cape passive a toggle would help, and it would make Gnar more consistent and fun to play. It would be nice to see Riot trim down on the parts of his kit that aren't core to him to make him slightly less overloaded while making him more fun to play against and even more fun to play as. In general, it would be nice to see fewer overloaded kits, as they are usually quite unnecessary (for example, Nidalee really doesn't need her heal to be effective, her identity is more in the poke, then go for kill part of her kit).

FANTAsticOrangeOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That would be awesome! Maybe more base AD to Mini Gnar late game would be fair compensation. The HP scaling on his jump is interesting, but really unnecessary. It is imo bad game design to have damage scale with tankiness and vice versa. It wouldn't really make sense for it to scale with AD, so maybe they could make it another one of his AP scalings and give it better base damage for Mega Gnar? If they removed Frozen Mallet from the game it would make Gnar a lot more fun to play against, but it would significantly hurt Mini Gnar. Making Sunfire Cape passive a toggle would help, and it would make Gnar more consistent and fun to play. It would be nice to see Riot trim down on the parts of his kit that aren't core to him to make him slightly less overloaded while making him more fun to play against and even more fun to play as. In general, it would be nice to see fewer overloaded kits, as they are usually quite unnecessary (for example, Nidalee really doesn't need her heal to be effective, her identity is more in the poke, then go for kill part of her kit).

There is much work to be done come preseason, hopefully Riot have plans in the making for bruiser items and champions that utilize them.

I would assume they're going to consider things like Frozen Mallet while Poppy is being worked on. Something else to look forward to.

Gnart Even CloseOct 5, 20151 votes

Hopefully. It's nice seeing Riot look at older items and champions, even though they will probably end up being ridiculously overtuned, then fall out of power for the same reasons as before (I'm looking at you Skarner). Poppy's rework will hopefully be awesome, and it would be nice to be rid of Frozen Mallet, as it is simply unhealthy for the game and nobody besides Gnar and sometimes Warwick build it. Preseason is going to be very interesting.

FANTAsticOrangeOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Preseason is going to be very interesting.

Gnart Even CloseOct 5, 20151 votes

You know, if I was on EUW, I would definitely add you. Do you post on the boards too, or do you just comment? You seem like you would make some pretty interesting posts.

FANTAsticOrangeOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You know, if I was on EUW, I would definitely add you. Do you post on the boards too, or do you just comment? You seem like you would make some pretty interesting posts.

Me? Mostly comment, generally on controversial stuff, or anything I have a lot to say about. I'm the wall of text guy.

On the occasion that I do post, it's probably because I'm in between games and need to make a dank meme or point out something stupid that no one else would bring up on the boards (I literally am on the boards because I wanted to post something regarding Veigar's W soundfx; with the landing and cast timing changed, the unsynced sound of the Dark Matter dropping is making me go insane).

Gnart Even CloseOct 5, 20151 votes

Nice. Soundfx are a pretty important part of the game; it's nice to see someone is paying attention to them.

FANTAsticOrangeOct 5, 20151 votes