why it is fine for ahri to have 53.21% win rate and 22% pick rate

notice me Sin pi·May 1, 2017·1 votes·1,006 views

Riot has said that it is expected from players with 125+ games to have more than 55% win rate on a champion. And Ahri has a lot of dedicated mains out there. 55% win rate is perfectly fine if the dedicated ahri mains are the ones who contribute to it. Conversely, it is utterly unacceptable if it's the new players that have the 55% win rates.

And their data turns out to be 50% win rate. http://champion.gg/champion/ahri/Middle?

The ahri's that u face probably seem op only cuz they are being handled by dedicated mains in most cases.

20 Comments

ÅeolusMay 1, 20173 votes

But it's ok for Lucian to have a 40% play rate and 53% win rate?

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

Typical SAO fan.

notice me Sin piMay 1, 20171 votes

i dont know what SAO has to do with it ~~n i wouldnt even call myself an SAO fan, it was my 1st anime series that i watched~~, but i will answer ur question: NO.

he does have a lot of mains out there (it's fine up to there), but botrk is certainly too OP on him rn (it's not fine there).

and lemme know where i mentioned lucian on the original post

ÅeolusMay 1, 20171 votes

Explain why Lucian and Ahri are OP.

notice me Sin piMay 1, 20171 votes

First of all, ahri isnt op, she just tends to be popular and therefore a lot of dedicated mains. Second of all, i already answered ur question above for both both ahri and lucian. Learn to read.

edit: if u actually need me to elaborate on why botrk is too OP on lucian, then u should relearn the game cuz u probably dont know the game at all.

ÅeolusMay 3, 20171 votes

If she isn't op no changes need to be made.

notice me Sin piMay 4, 20171 votes

yep. And that's why she doesnt need nerfs.

ÅeolusMay 5, 20171 votes

Wait then what was the point of this post lol

StoryDuckMay 1, 20173 votes

Alert the presses! All LOL Players are experts in balance if they know the win rates of champions! We no longer need to know anything else as long as we know win rate.

Scary DoorMay 1, 20171 votes

Except that Ahri is the only champion in League to stay at or above 53% win rate for two straight seasons (going on a third) and is one of the most played champions at the same time. This typically indicates that the champion is overtuned, is abusing an item or mechanic that was unintended for them or a combination of the two. In this case, Ahri is just overtuned... A champion consistently in the top 20 in terms of win and pick rate does indicate a balance issue.

Win rate/pick rate is certainly not the only factor, but it is often a tell-tale sign... a symptom (if you will) of a champion that is need of readjustment.

StoryDuckMay 1, 20172 votes

Exactly, I mean 53% win rate?!?! Totally needs a nerf and completely overtuned. We know everything we need to know about Ahri because we know she has a 53% win rate. There is no point in considering anything else about her. No other fact, data point, or issue matters as long as her win rate isn't exactly 50%. I mean, what are the odds that it is something about her play style and not her numbers that contributes to this?

But seriously, win rate is probably the least useful stat to use when determining if a champion is balanced or not. In Ahri's case I would suspect her slightly higher win rate is due to the safety and utility of her ultimate. It allows her to get picks as an assassin and allows her massive ability to escape. Her numbers are actually on the low side but she gets a lot of utility out of that ult and that utility allows a lot of different play styles to succeed. Want to play safe? Save your ult for escapes. Want to be aggressive? Ult in for that pick. Do you like darting around the fight peppering the enemy with damage? Ahri's ult has you covered. Really, Ahri is just a very simple, versatile and easily mastered champion (not that mastering her kit makes you good) She doesn't have waves of text to learn and she can be very forgiving to play as. She has a great theme and a lot of players that play her play her a lot because she is simple yet rewarding and this frequent playing her allows a higher cap in skill and making for better win rates. Sure we could nerf her again but honestly, the only way she will stop having a slightly higher win rate is if she gets a full rework on her ultimate or her numbers are so low she is unplayable. Bottom line is, she's fine.

Scary DoorMay 1, 20171 votes

I'll tell you what, find another champion that has had a 53% (or higher, because Ahri has been up to as high as 55% during that time) win rate AND one of the highest pick rates CONTINUOUSLY since 2015 and I'll concede your point.

I'll wait.

StoryDuckMay 1, 20171 votes

Win rate isn't a good metric except when the numbers are way off. If she was seeing something like 60% win rate then that is a reason to worry but 53% isn't anything to worry about. It is unrealistic to expect a perfect 50% win/loss rate for all 130+ champions and you need to allow that some are just more naturally picked up and played then others. I've never had a game where she felt so unstoppable that I couldn't win. I have never felt a need to ban her nor shall I unless she gets some massive buffs. Sure, I get those occasional games where she got an early lead and snowballed out of control but any champion can do that. Heck, in terms of snowballing she isn't half as bad as a snowballing Darius....that gives me nightmares.

I may not be able to find another champion that meets your requirements but on the flip side I challenge you to point out what exactly makes her so unbalanced. She isn't exactly a ball of stats, she has damage lower then a lot of other mid laners, and her mobility is all clumped up in an ultimate with a very reasonable CD. So what makes her overpowered? Do you ban her? If not, why not if you feel she is so strong?

If you are struggling against Ahri you need to start tracking her ultimate. Her power is all in that and she becomes very weak when it is down (not useless). Take advantage of that window to push her around and punish her. When she has it up you need to wait for backup before trying to take her on. In teamfights she will often have it but just like other high mobility assassin champions you need a bit of CC to slow them down long enough to burst them down/save your carry.

Scary DoorMay 1, 20171 votes

First, a consistent winrate of 53% COMBINED WITH (this is the part you keep ignoring) the high pickrate demonstrates that the champion is very popular and popularity implies that she is played often by casual players. If casual players are having great success with a champion not even having bothered to master her, then that suggests she is very easy to play and/or her power is a bit too high when even a casual player can win well above the statistical mean.

As to your point about a "60% win rate", I don't recall a champion in League history EVER having a 60% win rate outside of the first week of the juggernaut update when Skarner was briefly at 65%... he was hotfixed and that was the end of that. I've seen a couple briefly get to 59%. So, I don't think that's a great example.

Ahri has safety, sustain, true damage and, most importantly, mobility. In League, very few champions have all of the items Ahri brings to the table, most champions have a tradeoff somewhere, that being if you have sustain, you usually have lower base stats, or if you have good poke you are usually immobile---like Vel'koz for example. Vel is really the poster-child of how a champion should be... lots of poke, all skill shots, high damage if your combo lands but his tradeoff is that he is very easy to gank or abused by mobile champions. Ahri doesn't have these weaknesses.

You might say, "yeah, but you can blow her up with CC" --- that can be said for any champion. Ahri doesn't really have a weakness other than her early mana costs, but even that's only a brief window of the first 10 minutes of the game or so.

I'm not saying she's "omg overpowered gut this bitch!" but I do feel that a champion that performs at such a high level and with such a huge pick rate must, at some point, be examined for nerfs---even if they are subtle.

I think removing her move-speed boost on Q would be adequate, her win rate would drop slightly and the subsequent pick rate would drop.

I don't usually lose to an Ahri. I will say this, if I pick a newer champ midlane, one that I haven't played frequently and I'm against even a mediocre Ahri... I hate it, I'd rather play against Yasuo 100 times out of 100 than Ahri if I'm not on one of my mains. I'm not even great at this game and even I can carry on Ahri most of the time when I decide to play her.

StoryDuckMay 1, 20171 votes

I think removing her move-speed boost on Q would be adequate, her win rate would drop slightly and the subsequent pick rate would drop.

That would do nothing to her win rate. You are missing the point, it isn't a number problem. It's a result of play style. Ahri is a champion that is allowed to be "safe" because it is in her ultimate. A large cooldown is her gate in power. That small MS boost wouldn't make a dent on her win rate because she can still be highly mobile and safe when she has it. The MS boost on Q was added to give her added map mobility to roam and lets face it...low tier players don't roam often. Her win rate would likely remain +3%ish because of the utility her ultimate continues to grant.

You have two options. Rework her ultimate or nerf her so much that she is useless.

Yes she has a small amount of sustain, yes she has a small amount of true damage but those by no means define her character. Just because a champion has a bit of everything doesn't mean everything is powerful. She is a mobile AP assassin through and through she just has a small bit of flair in her abilities but her real power is in her ultimate.

xJLx MCHammerMay 1, 20172 votes

$$$$

If this was Cassiopeia, she gets nerfed sooooo hard

UnboundHadesMay 1, 20171 votes

ive been killing a lot of ahris lately no idea why so many

Mat7itanMay 1, 20172 votes

She is a popular pick in the lcs right now because she fits the meta. So people watch that and assume she is op, and that is why there are so many ahri's right now.

NarvuntienMay 1, 20171 votes

53% isn't really that bad.... As far as I am concerned anything with a 52 to 48% win rate is balanced.

Perhaps minor tweaks are needed.

The strange thing about league is that the more balanced the game gets the more powerful high mobility champions get.

notice me Sin piMay 1, 20171 votes

boards logic: jhin 53~55% win rate is completely fine and balanced because he "has counterplay"

n no, he wasnt even out long enough for dedicated mains to exist and boost overall win rate back then, unlike ahri who was out for years

IcyPepperMay 1, 20171 votes

Why is it fine for the same thing to be posted fifty times a month.

Yeah, I think Riot gets it at this point. Whatever their design philosophy is, it's obviously not aligning with some of their vocal playerbase with some fair foundation. Either they'll get to it, or they'll ignore it. Either way, bitching further at this point is just a waste of energy.

Best thing you can do is practice against her until you can beat her despite her relatively strong state.