all those annoying % reduction, shields, and heals in my games...

notice me Sin pi·Jun 24, 2017·67 votes·2,408 views

are the reason teamfights in my games dont end in 3 seconds.

It's what the LoL community asked for. And we have it now.

84 Comments

Critmaster GarenJun 24, 201730 votes

we asked to tune down damage in the game in general.

we didnt ask for only marksmen to get more tanky and more damage...

because thats exactly what happened. defensive items are mostly trash and except for one or two tanks, they all struggle.

same for bruisers. they went all down the drain with the change to the defensive items and cant stay alive in fights anymore.

marksmen have seen buffs to their main damage items, they got additional new items that grant them ad while making them burst resistant, and riot has added mr/lvl scaling to them.

literally the only ones who came out stronger of this update are marksmen, as they hjad both their damage and their defense heavily icnreased. and theyre shredding everyone else.

damage didnt get tuned down, its just a single class of carries that holds all the power right now.

AnhartaminJun 24, 20175 votes

[deleted]

ApocalypsicJun 24, 20172 votes

Man do I feel for you on those downvotes.

No one wants to admit Janna takes half a brain cell to operate.

I personally think enchanters are a disgusting class for people who want to have an impact but don't have the balls to interact in a meaningful way with their opponents. I actually want to bash my face into the keyboard every time I see an enemy Janna or Soraka.

Harsh and vulgar wording it may be, but such is how I feel.

HaIlMonitorJun 24, 20175 votes

You honestly think janna is easier to play then supports like Lux Zyra Annie ... fun stuff.

ApocalypsicJun 24, 20171 votes

Yes. Pressing E to shield is clearly hard work. Oh and R if someone gets too close to your carry!

Lux is an awful support and Zyra is problematic I will agree with you.

Annie is honestly so-so.

HaIlMonitorJun 25, 20175 votes

"You right click with all adc champs ez-pz" uh Ezreal /sarcasm

Knowing how to use her slow, and nadow are a big deal. Also tbh a lot of people use janna ult in the wrong way just for displacement. It heals for a ton too. Her kit isnt complex, but imo she is just as hard to play as thresh, just is squishier and deals less damage.

13900 EssenceJun 25, 20173 votes

^correct The more binary the champ is the easier it is to counter the champ.

If Janna is so easy and only uses her shields to win, then just play around that and you'll win the game ez. Sure if you're an autofill support it is a good pickup because you have the possibility of just hitting e, but against anybody with >2 brain cells it won't be effective.

Inb4 "lolxd janna main defending her" I don't think I've ever even played the champ.

Fisher No ChainsJun 24, 201723 votes

The problem is that some champions are completely worthless and can't do shit in fight in this meta.

Pick any assassin, try to kill the adc with DD, PD, Knight's active, 600hp shield and lifesteal before being oneshotted or chain-stunned for days. Good luck.

It's sad that once teamfights start, half of the assassins roster if not more is just a worse Tryndamere and has to split push to be somehow useful, just because you either catch someone in their jungle and fight 4v5 (if you can kill him tho), or good luck being useless for the whole fight and not being able to do your job.

First we had the assassins update, to increase burst time and counterplay. Then we had a lot of item changes and "shield creep", to increase burst time even more. Now it's not even a delayed burst, it's pretty much an impossible burst past 25 minutes, and it's sad that a whole class is getting fucked more than everyone else just because people complained about assassins doing their JOB.

yoshi2790Jun 24, 20177 votes

Pick Lux

She'll oneshot the squishy no matter what.

RavenMagusJun 24, 20172 votes

I don't know if you've tried playing Lux recently, but she actually doesn't one shot a squishy who's covered in damage reduction + support shielding + Locket. And if they build a Maw at all, you can just forget about trying.

And unfortunately, if she doesn't get the kill with her ult, she becomes useless the rest of the teamfight.

yoshi2790Jun 24, 20172 votes

I play Lux frequently and her damage is absurd. She can one shot anyone under 2K hp late game.

(I'm not saying Lux needs a nerf, because she's immobile and her shield sucks so her damage is fine)

RavenMagusJun 24, 20175 votes

{quoted}

I play Lux frequently and her damage is absurd. She can one shot anyone under 2K hp late game.

Since when did you see an ADC late game that had under 2k HP after support shields are piled on?

I'm no stranger to Lux myself (she is my third most played champion, at 115k mastery points), but while she can burst out 2k damage easily, she has difficulty doing more than that - and those "squishies" late game will almost always have more HP than that, thanks to ADC and support itemization.

JaxMoonStealerJun 24, 20173 votes

Assassin's burst times should scale into late game. Having an increased burst time in early to mid game is fine because 1v1s are very common and this provides counterplay.

However, in late game, where assassins are almost useless nowadays, you could have it (almost like before). For example, LeBlanc's passive charging up much faster, Talon's bleed doing the damage over much less time, Fizz's W passive charging up faster.

This could backfire though, since bursting people in under a second has never been healthy.

Fisher No ChainsJun 24, 20176 votes

I know that it has never been healthy, but if you think about it you don't even need a second to press your locket key or AA the unlucky assassin and chunk half his HP while he's waiting his cook time to do his job.

Some games ago I was a 9/0 LB trying to kill a 2/4 Caitlyn in fight. It was mid to late game so she had some items anyway, but before my passive charged she auto'ed me for 700 fucking damage (and I had ~1500 HP) and I was forced to back, resulting in being TOTALLY USELESS.

I don't know how this makes sense honestly, they need to either let assassins scale better late or reduce ADCs dueling power because this is ridicolous.

Morgan le FeyJun 24, 20171 votes

The whole design of assassins is that they're meant to be early-mid champs, though. Most assassins are made to get kills and snowball early, then shut the ADCs and mages out of fights mid-game for an early win. They're just being shunted solidly into that role in all elos now.

3TWarriorJun 25, 20171 votes

I thought that their role was to kill one target and one target only unless the enemy was stupidly grouped against an abstract specialist?

but very high cooldowns(with extreme damage as compensation) was viewed as boring and uninteractive, so we got spammy assassins...which then turned out to be unhealthy, so now we have...burst supports?

AMYS GRAVEJun 25, 20171 votes

Assassins should be bad in teamfights, they excel in the mid game while picks are still possible and the enemy hasn't grouped.

OriyokiJun 24, 201721 votes

We didn't want marksmen to to be numero uno. We wanted marksmen to just be DPS, not burst per second or champions per second.

AnhartaminJun 24, 20175 votes

[deleted]

HaIlMonitorJun 24, 20173 votes

What makes janna op? She actually is in my opinion exactly what a support is supposed to be. Utility with basically zero damage. Why is she more broken then something like Zyra?

KyunseiJun 24, 201717 votes

Now that ADC don't die in 2 seconds and survives for 10 seconds (or simply don't die) it's time to reduce ADC late game damage.

Before : 2 seconds of DPS ~ around 3'000 damage Now : 10 seconds + of DPS ~ around a ton of damage (15'000)

Don't need to deal the same shit ton of damage as before with this much peel from item passive/active.

RexxieeJun 24, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Now that ADC don't die in 2 seconds and survives for 10 seconds (or simply don't die) it's time to reduce ADC late game damage.

Before : 2 seconds of DPS ~ around 3'000 damage Now : 10 seconds + of DPS ~ around a ton of damage (15'000)

Don't need to deal the same shit ton of damage as before with this much peel from item passive/active.

Adcs dont need to be nerfed because support items are overpowered, the overpowered support items need the nerfs.

rtbf221651412Jun 24, 20179 votes

{quoted}

Adcs dont need to be nerfed because support items are overpowered, the overpowered support items need the nerfs.

Is this community trying to kill high elo queue times harder? Even auto-fill wont be able to keep up eventually.

PrinceOfStormsJun 24, 20176 votes

ADCs shouldn't die in 2 seconds. They should die in 0.1 seconds, to any tank, if they're doing to do as much damage as they do.

ADCs should either lose about 50% of their damage, or have 500 base HP at level 18 so they have to build at least two tank items to not be instantly killed by pretty much every champion in the game.

PokladnicaZlaJun 24, 20178 votes

How about we rework crit into a DPS mechanic? The more you autoattack a tagret the more damage your AA's deal? Make life-steal flat,so it's doesn't synergyze with crit so well (bigger value on melee's champions).

And here we have it. ADC's burst reduced,so now if they get caught by an assassin they need to outplay them hard. Tank won't be melted instantly,but need to get focused by them over a period of time. #BALANCE

PrinceOfStormsJun 24, 20171 votes

Or just delete crit and lifesteal from the game entirely, because they're both cancerous mechanics (seeing as how spellvamp and dodge are gone). Maybe also remove Last Whisper.

3TWarriorJun 25, 20171 votes

spell vamp isn't gone, but it is inefficient with only one item possessing it

if you do physical damage, you are fine though but for the magic damage dealers, only item 3146 exists and its base item was nerfed not to have the passive...

PokladnicaZlaJun 25, 20171 votes

Crit as it currently exists is an annoying RNG mechanic. Life-steal main problem (IMO) is that it's synergizes to well with crit and AD.You can literally buy one life-steal item and go burst,while getting higher life-steal. I don't see a problem with the concept of syngergy between mechanics,but how much you can heal with certain champions because of one crit AA.

Why remove last whisper?

PrinceOfStormsJun 25, 20171 votes

Because %armor pen is stupid because it punishes building tanky.

PokladnicaZlaJun 26, 20171 votes

Couldn't the same logic be applied to AR? It punishes building AD

AR-pen has it's place in the game,but in small amounts tho

PrinceOfStormsJun 27, 20171 votes

Armor and MR have soft caps and get less gold efficient the more you buy. AD (and also AP) does not.

PokladnicaZlaJun 27, 20171 votes

Then,a better comparison would be MS and slows?

AlienPrimateJun 24, 20172 votes

An adc and a tank should do about the same damage relative to each other's max hp. Completely neglecting damage you don't do very much damage and completely neglecting defense you can't take very much damage.

PrinceOfStormsJun 24, 20171 votes

And what I'm saying is that no matter how fed an ADC is, if they build 0 defensive items they should be one shot by a stiff breeze.

AlienPrimateJun 25, 20171 votes

They should only be one shot by someone else building only damage. One shotting anyone while building defensively should never happen.

3TWarriorJun 25, 20171 votes

actually, in most cases a light and fast character that deals a lot of damage is often subdued by a bulky and slow character

take for example in WW2 like warfare, if a transport vehicle or smaller attempted to engage a bunker, the bunker would win with superior firepower and defense but combat is not the goal of transport vehicles and instead the soldiers they carry would attempt to clear out the bunker

another example in warfare, Soldiers, although mobile and stealthy(like for instance assassins) do not take out tanks unless specifically armed and prepared to do so (for example with a rocket launcher or mine field)

tanks are heavily armored and heavily armed but relatively immobile vehicles. The same goes for almost any role playing game where tanks are at the front of combat and take a beating from bruisers, casters and marksmen for extended periods but in exchange do decent damage and are very tough to take down while being generally locked to one position.

that is why it is bad when opposition gets passed the tank as the tank is no longer absorbing damage as intended

in typical instances, a tank can do between 20% and 1/3rd of a dedicated specialist's damage except in explicit instances of burst damage, which usually have very high cooldowns

league throws this all out of balance by trying to keep the game fast paced instead of strategic

if we were to look at this from other games' standpoints, Juggernauts would not even exist in league (except for Baron, dragon and herald(in both instances)) because a Juggernaut is supposed to be an enemy that if proper precautions are not taken during the fight, you die instantly

Juggernauts are strong, but league's battle system does not support juggernaut class enemies, so instead, we have stat checkers and gimmicks

Daddy AntsJun 24, 20176 votes

{quoted}

ADCs shouldn't die in 2 seconds. They should die in 0.1 seconds, to any tank, if they're doing to do as much damage as they do.

ADCs should either lose about 50% of their damage, or have 500 base HP at level 18 so they have to build at least two tank items to not be instantly killed by pretty much every champion in the game.

ADC's should not die in 0.1 seconds.

No one should.

Especially not to tanks.

Tanks are designed to absorb damage, not 1 shot people.

PrinceOfStormsJun 24, 20171 votes

ADCs are supposed to do reliable, albeit lower, damage than a mage or assassin. Not tank. So ADCs should not have any defensive itemization

AtanchanJun 24, 20172 votes

"adcs should die in 0.1 seconds"

"adcs should do reliable damage over time"

well I mean I guess if they're meant to do reliable damage over 0.1 seconds they should be one-shotting peeps

3TWarriorJun 25, 20171 votes

marksmen aren't really even supposed to enter the fight until the opposing crowd control(tank) and mages are taken out (and when assassins were more common, they were feared)

so ordinarily, they would survive longer than that but they do not enter the fight until they can apply their damage

AtanchanJun 25, 20171 votes

So they're only supposed to enter the fight ... when it's already over?

I mean like according to that logic there'd maybe be like a Olaf still in the fight, and probably close to death, since the enemy carry wouldn't be anywhere near the fight since their tank and mage bit it without taking out their counterparts on the other side. Presumably, the support would besides the carry, so they wouldn't see the fight either.

I feel like you guys should just be honest and say "I don't want marksmen to even exist period." Because it's pretty obvious that's what you want to say, you don't have to come up with arbitrary rules that makes zero sense to try and make it subtle.

3TWarriorJun 25, 20171 votes

it's a rule that's always existed but people tend to only follow it to the bare minimum (waste their crowd control) because it's boring to do so (marksmen are quite literally a cleanup crew class with high consistent damage to finish stragglers(such as tanks and bulky champions) and then to damage the towers as efficiently as possible)

I don't want marksmen to disappear. I want the game to not be centered around them....

what's the mentality: they got our marksman, the fight's over! OR

they got our marksman, push people, break that tower and shove the lane!

in the vast majority of incidences, if one side's marksman is defeated, that team tends to fall back simply to delay until their major source of DPS can return from the grave. The only time this does not happen is if that team managed to defeat the opposing marksman as well

AtanchanJun 25, 20171 votes

The issue I have with this theory is that it's giving the damage dealers that deal damage over time ... the least amount of time to deal damage.

Like, if anything, this is making it so that carries that do absurd damage like Draven as the goal, since it leaves them to do their job in the shortest amount of time possible. Anything like Kog or Ezreal or the like that need to take time to deal damage have no place if you play by that rule, because they're only allowed to do anything after the enemy team is doing their best to disengage and minimize their losses. You can clean up pretty well in that situation if all you had to do is catch up to them and throw an auto or two each. You don't accomplish anything at all if you have get in four attacks plus a spell to accomplish the same thing.

Also, I'd say that disengaging upon losing a marksman is caused by it being uncommon to pick up a second DPS, rather than because marksman are so important. If all your mid-to-late damage outside of the marksman is based around a mage or assassin, there's not really much of a purpose to risk losing most of the time, because what are you going to do if your risk pays off? Take a tower or dragon? You don't have your sole DPS anymore, all you've got are durable wet noodles and floating chick that blows her load at once and then has to wait a while before doing anything again - who doesn't even get to use her load against a tower, if that's what you aim for.

On the flipside, though, if Jax or something was more viable, there'd be a lot more reasons to take that risk of fighting with a man down, because you do have someone who can let you actually take advantage of a victory.

3TWarriorJun 25, 20171 votes

but on the opposite side of the equation, you are saying that marksmen are invaluable and completely control how a team fight happens unless there is a variant from typical pattern in the game: Swain Azir Graves Jayce Kennen Heimerdinger Mordekaiser

there are so few other than the rare opportunity for a melee dps to get to the marksman, it shows how biased the game is towards one class in general when that one class is slowly losing its risks to play

AtanchanJun 25, 20171 votes

It turns out that when the way to win the video game is to hit buildings, you need to have someone who can hit buildings.

3TWarriorJun 25, 20171 votes

like any melee dps, azir, ziggs or tower-buster champs like jayce?

AtanchanJun 26, 20171 votes

Yeah. With those guys on your team, it can actually be worth the risk of fighting with a marksman down, because they'll give you a second chance at the reward of coming closer to victory.

Worth remembering the bot-lane-Ziggs-instead-of-marksman that happened a while back, which never actually got directly nerfed from what I recall. I think the only reason it fell out of favor was because people learned to play against it and I think some marksmen and / or supports that favored that matchup became more powerful.

3TWarriorJun 26, 20171 votes

according to another player, a person has to be "really good" to land more than 20% of ziggs's Q's in mid to high rank

BigBellBruteJun 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

according to another player, a person has to be "really good" to land more than 20% of ziggs's Q's in mid to high rank

Zigg's Q's don't land based upon how good the Ziggs is. They land based upon how good the other player is at dodging and how close the ziggs is when he chucks it.