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Have we ever actually received a decent answer on why promos are still a thing?

Yosuke Apperu··3 votes·378 views

Pretty much just the title.. Why can't lp just keep adding up for example when you reach a hundred lp you automatically advance to the next rank and the left over lp can even carry over (so that if you're at like 98 lp, all of the lp for that game isn't wasted). I'll say it I'm bronze V but After reaching your promos so many times just to be held back as a support by another lane feeding uncontrollably.. it makes me feel really bad for playing a support lol. (Like swearing that you'll protect a loved one and failing to do so) So why can't things like an average of our objectives taken/kda/etc. be used to determine our rank? I know I've come across threads of diamond players smurfing through bronze/silver and even they say that it's rather difficult. Thoughts?

Edit: Downvoted without reason.. okay so you don't agree with me? well why don't you? Why not actually help me understand the flaws in my thinking?

15 Comments

Mysticman892 votes

If you lose your promos you get a free win the next time you get to those promos, so it's somewhat less frustrating then before when you could get stuck in a win win win win promos win loss loss promos failed win win promos loss win loss... kind of streak where you feel cursed to get the afks/feeders in the most important matches despite having a >50% win rate.

Lp and the ranked system is mostly just for show though, the underlying mmr is pretty much the only thing that actually matters. It feels bad to 'waste' the LP when you win a game at 99 LP, but you're still getting the full MMR gains, and the MMR gains mean you'll get more LP in future matches anyway (similarly your actual rank is rather cosmetic, and so when a plat 5 gets matches with a gold 4, it's not a total mismatch, they're likely actually on an even footing since their MMRs are similar for them to have been matched in the first place).

Yosuke Apperu1 votes

{quoted}

If you lose your promos you get a free win the next time you get to those promos, so it's somewhat less frustrating then before when you could get stuck in a win win win win promos win loss loss promos failed win win promos loss win loss... kind of streak where you feel cursed to get the afks/feeders in the most important matches despite having a >50% win rate.

Lp and the ranked system is mostly just for show though, the underlying mmr is pretty much the only thing that actually matters. It feels bad to 'waste' the LP when you win a game at 99 LP, but you're still getting the full MMR gains, and the MMR gains mean you'll get more LP in future matches anyway (similarly your actual rank is rather cosmetic, and so when a plat 5 gets matches with a gold 4, it's not a total mismatch, they're likely actually on an even footing since their MMRs are similar for them to have been matched in the first place).

Thank you so much for that awesome reply my friend! How is actual mmr calculated though? and will playing with someone of lower mmr actually lower your own mmr?

Powderkegg1 votes

{quoted}

Thank you so much for that awesome reply my friend! How is actual mmr calculated though? and will playing with someone of lower mmr actually lower your own mmr?

Riot doesn't release how mmr is calculated but many sites like op.gg can give you an estimate of it, right now it can't because of the dynamic match making. And no, playing with people below your mmr won't lower it; it can be lowered by losing frequently to players close to your mmr and can be raised by winning frequently against people with higher mmr than you.

Mysticman891 votes

If you win a game you'll gain mmr, regardless of the MMR's of those who you're with and those you're against, and similar if you lose a match you'll lose MMR regardless.

That said, the size of the gains/losses do depend on the average MMR of the players involved. If you group with a squad of 4 challenger players, you're almost certainly going to be in a match where the average mmrs of everyone is well above your own personal MMR, and so the system expects you to lose (and so your mmr losses would be minimal), but if you win, then you could stand to gain a lot of MMR. On the flipside, if you group with 4 players deep in bronze 5, the average MMRs will be lower than your personal MMR, and so you're expected to win, and hence your mmr gains would be minimal for wins but you could stand to lose more.

Keep in mind that in theory mmr does actually reflect the players skill level though, and so if you are above the average mmr for the game, you are probably going to have a relatively easy time carrying the game, and so your expected MMR gains/losses should in theory* net out to 0 regardless of who you play with (e.g. if you win 80% of the time in low mmr games, you might gain 1 mmr point every win for 4 games, and then lose 4 points of MMR in your 5th when you lose).

Exact mmr calculations aren't publicly known unfortunately, and I think it's a little more complicated than I outlined above (I think total number of games played is an influence, as well as streaks making your mmr more sensitive to change), but that should give you a rough idea of how mmr works.

*=If everyones mmr is actually reflective of their current skill level e.g. they would win 50% of the games against people of equal mmr. In practice many people haven't played enough games to have their mmr fall/climb to a level representative of their skill.

Blade of Justic1 votes

No.

Yosuke Apperu1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blade of Justic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lARaPc4E,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-02-11T22:08:09.870+0000)

No.

No we haven't ? Or no you don't agree with me or what? lol

Blade of Justic2 votes

{quoted}

No we haven't ? Or no you don't agree with me or what? lol

No, we haven't.

The paraphrased quote for why promos are staying is "We believe it makes ranking up feel more cut-throat and memorable." Keep in mind, this is paraphrased. Riot has stated that they believe promos to be exhilarating and fun filled.

I differ from that opinion.

Yosuke Apperu1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blade of Justic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lARaPc4E,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-11T22:14:39.297+0000)

No, we haven't.

The paraphrased quote for why promos are staying is "We believe it makes ranking up feel more cut-throat and memorable." Keep in mind, this is paraphrased. Riot has stated that they believe promos to be exhilarating and fun filled.

I differ from that opinion.

I haven't met anyone who's found promos anything but stressful. They would be exhilarating if the match ups were actually even.. but they're far from it.. lol

Z Statistic1 votes

In theory, it's supposed to make it feel like you're in a mini LCS tourney.

Yosuke Apperu1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Menea Calais,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lARaPc4E,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-02-11T22:09:59.016+0000)

In theory, it's supposed to make it feel like you're in a mini LCS tourney.

Except in the LCS you don't normally have 4v5s/3v5s. Plus in the lcs many players are closer to eachother's skill level and they know how they should be building if they're losing vs winning. They also know how to teamfight much better and take a tower instead of 3 people chasing after an opponent who's 0/4

Z Statistic1 votes

I don't normally have 4v5 or 3v5 either...

And the rest simply comes with the territory of soloqueue.

OH MAN NOT GOOD1 votes

[deleted]

Yosuke Apperu1 votes

{quoted}

U want the matchmaking system to judge you based on your kda?

plz no the ksing will be so real

How bout kda/objectives/ damage dealt etc? Plus in higher elos.. ksing isnt really a thing.. The enemy dead gives you time for objectives.. and objectives >kills... Plus a kill is equal to about 15 cs of gold.. so even if you arent getting kills you can still get very fed.

cuddlykitten41 votes

First off, it's not based off of anything individual because most of this game is based off of teamwork, and that is openly the goal of it. To place your ranking based off of anything individual is going to promote thinking about what is good for you more than the team as a whole. If you think most players are selfish and hateful now, wait til you see what that would create. Also, it would make KSing a thing in higher ELOs if it isn't already.

Second, the promos exist because if they didn't you would also fall a rank every single time you lost a game after ranking up. Most players would inconsistently bounce back and forth between rankings. As it stands right now, for most promos you need 2 out of 3. So just two wins gets you out if you do well. To fall back out it's something like 4 losses at 0 LP. Ultimately, you have more leeway to mess up than pressure to do well. If it takes you several tries to get out of that promo, well that's probably where you're skill level was until you improved enough to get out of it.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

Because Riot doesn't want to admit that elo was better.

"We don't want people to feel like they're numbers"

I'd much rather be a number than have division Vs, inconsistent lp gains, hidden mmr, and promotion cancer.

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