What if Vayne's Condemn gets a 50% range increase, but it's a skillshot.

Blade of Justic·Sep 6, 2015·6 votes·814 views

Would that fix the complaints about her?

10 Comments

67chromeSep 6, 20153 votes

What if Vayne's Condemn gets a 50% range increase, but it's a skillshot.

Due to it's casting delay and it's variable effectiveness based on nearby walls, it technically "is" a skillshot as-is. Just for the novelty of having a point-click skill that's a skillshot it should stay as-is.

Also - changing most point-click QWE things into ground-targeted skillshots is generally a buff with the range increase. Due to the associated range increase, the inverse largely isn't true to fleeing targets: where point-click and skillshots are often even. Being able to strike opponents in stealth, fog of war, and brush is quite useful. So is the scouting potential with just firing it into a brush rather than face-checking. Due to projectiles having a travel-time, it's also a pretty substantial range increase when used against someone that's moving towards you - be it them chasing you down or just in-lane when they go for that CS.

Point-click only really has an advantage vs. opponents hidding in the middle of their minion wave in-lane, or against things like Zhonya's or Troll-poll where the skill simply won't let you waste it on such a target.

Considering Vayne's current weaknesses of being limited to a 550 medium range tier, and her 100% point-click reliance making her quite susceptible to stealth/brush/fog of war, I can't see such a change as being anything but a buff for her.

BlkGolemSep 7, 20151 votes

I disagree. It's not supposed to be just for the stun, the disengage is simple and effective, a little too simple and effective given the rest of her kit.

5000000000000000Sep 6, 20152 votes

The range buff is kinda pointless. If you land the stun condemn at max range, you'll probably have no way to follow up since you're so far away. Also, this means condemn is now better against immobile champions.

It's bad for Vayne players, and it's bad for the game.

BlkGolemSep 7, 20151 votes

This is the problem; people see condemn as a stun and not disengage, because it is so effective so easily. The stun should be situational, but it is employed very often and very easily. There are a few things they can do to keep its identity and yet make it harder to use and still be so easily effective. One clear way should be a skillshot, given that the rest of her kit is literally just autoattack buffs and her q. and passive. One skillshot would be nice when facing Vayne, and it can reward them for hitting it instead of luring an enemy champion to anywhere on the map and then using good mobility to stun them wherever. (Okay, not quite anywhere on the map, but a lot of places even though it should primarily be DISENGAGE and not engage.)

jpf31Sep 7, 20152 votes

worst idea ever

BlkGolemSep 7, 20151 votes

How about no range increase, (maybe small one, but idk) skillshot, roots instead of stuns, and root duration makes sense based on how close the wall was, etc.

VicvictorwSep 7, 20151 votes

I like it.

Vayne isn't as completely braindead as she is currently, and it would allow for some sick insec tumble condemns into her own tower.

We are talking increased knockback too, yes?

Blade of JusticSep 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I like it.

Vayne isn't as completely braindead as she is currently, and it would allow for some sick insec tumble condemns into her own tower.

We are talking increased knockback too, yes?

How about a knock back range relative to the remaining distance on the skill shot? If you hit them while they're 50% of the way into your Condemn range, they get knocked back for 63% of the remaining range.

Would that work?

ApexInTheCircleSep 7, 20151 votes

My idea was to turn it into a skillshot and let her condemn champions against other champions. Would fix a lot of her problems and give her the ability to make really fucking cool plays while making her alittle harder to play.