And Tenacity will reduce all of them. The same can be said for the limited amount of fears,silences and taunts.Wtf is an immobilize? Caitlyn's 1.5 second trap?like people get caught in those in fights.There are far more knockups,roots,supressions and displacement skills like flay,shockwave and w/e skarners ult is,why do these ignore tenacity?
TheVishual15 votesRiot dug themselves into a hole pretty much making knockups because you can't just shorten a knockup like a stun, you have to reanimate the knockup to make it faster and there's about 600000 in the game atm. Wasn't a problem 2 years ago but pretty much every single new champ nowadays has some un-counterable CC in the form of a knockup
ModUlanopo3 votesIt shouldn't be a problem, as the variable knockup technology already exists with Janna's tornadoes. It also exists to a lesser degree on Sion's new stun.
Rikari1 votesSion's and Alistar's knockup end with a stun. Also no one plays sion,far less lands a fully charged Q.
ModUlanopo2 votesYou're missing the point. The programming for variable-height knockups already exists, regardless of who it's on and how often they're played.
Rikari1 votestrue but no one can land a charged knock up when it matters
Blade of Justic1 votesRiot dug themselves into a hole pretty much making knockups because you can't just shorten a knockup like a stun, you have to reanimate the knockup to make it faster and there's about 600000 in the game atm. Wasn't a problem 2 years ago but pretty much every single new champ nowadays has some un-counterable CC in the form of a knockup
If only we had a champion that synergized well with that.
Akesgeroth1 votesThe problem may have been creating tenacity and balancing the game around it in the first place.
TheKingDodo7 votesit's kinda silly to reduce displacement effects. half a knockup? half the distance in displacement? how would shockwave look? tenacity-animation interaction will make it look really weird. There's really no way to nerf these without introducing bugs
Before we start nerfing suppression, I think 
's got enough. Before you go on about all that devourer crap, he was in the spotlight for 2.5 weeks and lee's been in the spotlight for 2.5 seasons.
What riot needs to do is fix cleanse/QSS/dat chalice thing's consistency. and buff cleanse to make it a worthy summoner (maybe a MS buff? slight heal? 0.5-1 sec of continued cc immunity (instead of tenacity)?). this will make counter playing worthwhile and finally stop people from complaining about suppression.
Brenticus121 votesI think tenacity for displacements could reduce the distance travelled.
Leafie6 votesSuppressions ignore tenacity because that's just what they are. Suppressions. Very few exist in the game (I think they should be removed completely BUT THAT'S JUST LIKE, MY OPINION MAN), but their sole purpose is to be the hardest form of CC (aside from death).
Don't treat polymorph as a polymorph. Treat Polymorph as a silence + slow + blind (can't cast spells, attack, and it's a slow), which is why it's reduced by tenacity.
Knockups can't be reduced by Tenacity because that would take work. And Riot hates doing work.
Ariel the Cruel2 votesloooooooong long time ago (before the LCS), riot was going to fix the bug that caused displacements to be unaffected. The community wanted to keep it. Riot agreed.
Fast forward to today: we have Yasuo and Lee Sin who's ults would probably break if they corrected it now. Tenacity is also one of the reasons riot recently gave for preferring displacements (it was a month or two ago, Morello I think).
exiledFromBadmen1 votesMaybe it can be because of 
Brenticus121 votesWell that passive is pretty broken if all CC can be reduced by tenacity
Gear Kitty1 votesSuppressions ignore tenacity because that's just what they are. Suppressions. Very few exist in the game (I think they should be removed completely BUT THAT'S JUST LIKE, MY OPINION MAN), but their sole purpose is to be the hardest form of CC (aside from death).
Don't treat polymorph as a polymorph. Treat Polymorph as a silence + slow + blind (can't cast spells, attack, and it's a slow), which is why it's reduced by tenacity.
Knockups can't be reduced by Tenacity because that would take work. And Riot hates doing work.
Take out the Blind. It's actually called Pacify/Pacification (can't initiate auto-attacks).
Ahri's Charm is a Slow-Taunt-Pacify, and Amumu's R is Immobilize-Pacify.
Get Rekkkt5 votesKnockups can't be reduced by Tenacity because that would take work. And Riot hates doing work.
thats riots work ethics quote there
its broken? lets wait till 90% of the community complains then lets brush it under the rug till its 95% then lets say we are working on it a yr later lets release a system not fixing the problem and making more problems rinse
EndlessSorcerer4 votesSkarner's ultimate is a suppression...
Quinnrate4 votesRed post was on this before, but basically the devs say that knockups / knockbacks are more visual and immediate according to their focus groups. And that they're easily identifiable for players with design benefits for them as developers (easy to tune their CC / Damage ratios etc). They do however all ignore tenacity, as noted Rito and this is working as designed.
The procession of knock ups for the past several champs has been due to Yasou, and expanding the team composition options for him, though the devs also said that the next champion will not have any knock ups / knock backs.
ModUlanopo1 votesConsidering that every champion released in 2014 has a displacement/knockup effect, they're going to need to avoid them for a long time.
kirbyzama2 votesAren't roots reduced by tenacity because they are basically immobilizes? Pretty sure they are. Only "knock" cc and supressions ignore tenacity. And those aren't effected by tenacity because there are other animations that variable reduction would mess with. At least with supression your team can save you. Most "knocks" are really short too.
What I don't know and hope someone can clear up for me is what happens when a knock up is followed by a stun like Sion ult/Q or Alistar pulverize? How are those effect by tenacity. I heard they weren't effected by tenacity but that seems unfair as those are long ccs unlike a lot of other knock-ups.
Waarr2 votesYeah Riot kind of realised that a lot of champs relyed on their little CC to be viable aka Skarner. So they made a special rule.
BTW, Imobilize are anything that "roots" IE: Zyra E, Lux Q, Mao W, Swain W, Morg Q, Jinx E, Soraka E and so on. It's the second most common CC after Slow.
xLegendary Troll2 votesWhy would you guys want to get rid of the ONLY mechanic that can stop a gap closer like Diana, Xin, and Fizz?
If anything they should keep releasing more displacements to give us more counter play against this atrocious "assassin meta"!
Fadedpf1 votesI have never noticed this at all... knockups are literally op. You can stop them or do ANYTHING during them, why is it any different then a stun?
ModWulf Helhammer2 votesYou can't stop them or do ANYTHING during them
The actions "Mouse click" and "Dodge" would like a word to you about that.
Fadedpf3 votesYou act like cc is just some mythical thing. Yes you can dodge many things but you will get cced at one point or another
Brenticus121 votesYes but you are garaunteed to be stunned since most are point and click. Would you rather take your chances with something that is mostly dodgeable or always end up getting stunned for a slightly reduced amount of time?
Brenticus121 votesI have a better experience getting hit by a Cho Gath knockup than a de-empowered Renekton W even though it stuns for less time than Cho Gath's knockup. It's just because a stun visually indicates you not doing anything at all, a knockup shows you flying up and down which is visually stimulating. Also it's easier to judge when you'll be free from the CC.
Also most knockups are generally shorter and are in the form of skillshots. Even Maokai's Q is actually a skillshot which surprised me when I played him.
7ha7guy7771 votesi'm pretty sure one reason suppressions aren't affected by tenacity is that all but one (
) of them have damage done either over the course of the ult (
) or at the beginning and end of it (
). reducing the duration of the suppression would increase the speed you take damage at and under the right circumstances would actually be worse for the person being suppressed.
junglerboy161 votesI would actually really be in favor of changing suppression to work more like Nasus' wither. In the tool tip it says "if the effect is reduced by tenacity or similar effects, the slow is applied more quickly to give the max slow by the time the spell ends" If they did something like this for Suppresses, I would be really pleased. For Malz and WW, they could simply make the damage apply faster if the target has tenacity, and only actually stop the damage if they are interrupted. For skarner, it could work like this: if the target has tenacity, the duration is reduced, but the second damage application still affects them unless they are cleansed out of it.
Skarner is actually a bit unique amongst the suppression champions, since he doesn't channel the ability after grabbing the target, which means he can move around, cast spells, and many other things that neither WW nor Malz can do during their ults, so he may not be the kind of champ to have that effect take place.
MattAkhavan1 votesdo you really want more blinds? i feel like if you get too many it'll just be patched out of the game at some point.
Rock Rockburgh1 votesSure! If we have more blinds we can rework Lee Sin so his passive makes him immune to them.
Quinnrate1 votes[{quoted}](name=I Am Animation,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l4vXTGyo,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-01-03T05:38:41.610+0000)
do you really want more blinds? i feel like if you get too many it'll just be patched out of the game at some point.
I wouldn't mind a few more blinds in the game. But only if they're skillshots.
WingsofGulgazor1 voteshard cc combos way better and does tons of damage and teams with a lot of it are usually filled with comps that have people like karthus who just goes to the middle of your team and then by the time your out your dead that's what merc is for. knockups usually don't last long and usually can't be aoe comboed on the entire enemy team for 7 seconds and the champions that go into these comps usually don't do as much damage. Suppresion is also op there's a reason they allow WW ult to be interrupted. Even before WW got devourer he would have been op if teams weren't on the watch to interupt his ult I remember watching a stream and he smurfed and his team never interupted WW ult when they should and that's why WW was a lot stronger in low elo's. also hard CC's are usually used offensively as stated with more champions that cc and people with aoe damage like annie/ammumu/karthus whereas knockups are used for both offense and defense so some champs have knockups that can be used to engage more effectively wheras some are purely defensive and the only champions you usually use a hard cc on from like sona are on champions like master yi or zed that kinda already get screwd if you just exhaust them.
so having a lot of hard cc like ammumu/annie/sona paired with something like fiddlesticks and karthus is a lot stronger then teams with tons of knockups the reason is CC and aoe damage stack really nicely and makes full offensive stomps easy and even though you can get merc treads it usually still hard to deal with especially if they get a lead and usually you can even have a vayne or draven player in those comps as well since they can just sit there and hit your team while your cc'ed. The only reason to use a hard cc defensively (there are exeptions) is when used on something like a fed master yi or assasains who even then already gets countered by exhaust and assasains use to complain a lot about barrier.
Sure yasuo can do tons of aoe damage while ccing your team but even then he was mainly strong when he either got fed or was combo'd with teams that had tons of knockups that could also be used offensively like hard CC and just like hard cc in those comps you used your abilities to engage and even though knockups are usually shorter then things like ammumu and sona ult yasuo was strong because it lasted quite a while and did tons of damage and that's why yasuo got nerfed by like and his base hp is like 50 less now and that's why you hardly see him. which doesn't sound like a lot but the same thing happened to jax it litterally makes all-ins and surviving and snowballing harder so now yasuo can't get as fed as easily and just gets exhausted and dies.
and then janna the only thing she does is knock back and even then there are ways around it like picking of an enemy and then it's 4v5 and since janna does no damage she can't keep you from taking turrets or taking barron though hard cc even in a 4v5 could. When fed a janna on your team can usually only be used defensively and almost impossible unless you caught out like one lone enemy to use offesensively and in teamfights almost impossible and usually ends with you dieing anyway.
and even vayne with codemn usually doesn't do well in teamfights because then even when she's fed half the champions in the game can flash cc her and then she just dies. Though vayne does excell in smaller fights or in dueling and then like janna can cancel that out but that's all she does and if one item litterally canceled everything you did that would be op. Imagine for instance if ninja tabi canceled 35% of your entire enemies damage though last whisper does that it is a strong item and there's a reason people buy it. Though there also other reasons why last whisper is so strong as well it has to do with the fact that adcs are suppose to lower health bars and buying enough armors multiplies your health by like 10 and you still usually do quite a bit of damage with things like mundo with his aoe and cleavers and even AA's to some extent and shyvana with dragon form.
Cindikle1 votesCait's traps just require more thought. If you know an enemy is going to dive you, put it right in front of you. You can catch people with it. I wouldn't call it a strong CC. But you are underselling it.
Also, as long as Teemo and Lulu are the champions they are. No one will care about those two CC's having counters.
And Amumu is the only one with a CC that stops movement and auto attacks. (His ult wont stop a Kat ult for example). I don't know if this is reduced by Tenacity though.
Riot could make it a real CC, call it Curse(pun intended on Amumu, not the ex-team name). They could make it work into some champions to counter ADC's while not making them too strong vs other champions. Would work well the top lane situation.
Leafybeans1 votesThere are 3 blinds actually... 
Elemon1 votesAlso, Shaco's Two-Shiv Poison blinds minions/monsters, if I recall correctly (though I think just with the passive effect, not the active)...
And uhhh since when does Heimer have a blind? O_o
Teridax681 votesCrowd control as a system is a bit old, and needs an update. CC reduction currently affects crowd control just by devaluing it instead of toning down abuse cases or offering opportunities to outplay it, so when it comes to giving new champions hard crowd control, Riot can either implement a knockup, which breaks consistency in favor of a reliable amount of CC, or a stun/root, which may need to be inflated to overly high levels just to deal with Tenacity (hello 
's 3-second snare and 
's 2+ second taunt). I definitely agree that we need more clarity and consistency with crowd control and the ways to deal with it, and for that I think the system might need an overhaul, specifically:
's ult does a poor job of indicating its unique Entangle effect, for example). This just means older champions need visual updates, or at least visual tweaks to their skills.
's Equinox, where the duration of the crowd control is defined by its own conditional (in Soraka's case, staying inside the AoE, and in the case of, say, 
's ultimate, its channel duration). or 
's ultimates while contributing little gameplay, since you can just negate a champion's most important play with the press of a button.
needs a serious clarity update. Its effect needs to be tightened (65% CC reduction is hard to fully appreciate), and I think it may even need to change completely in the same manner as 
. Merging it with 
, a spell that's always competed with Heal for the same niche and is now outclassed, in order to provide a small period of complete immunity, could be one way of making it viable at its own niche.