We should call this meta "The Burst Meta"

Rikari·Jan 2, 2017·98 votes·4,615 views

Ziggs can now two shot towers The adc that could only kill tanks and died to other adcs now kills everything in a second or less not to mention twitch,syndra and the wind type pokemon hasaki vayne still condemns you from nexus to nexus veigar got reworked to nuke every category of champ now at 10 minutes your bot lane will have fed and got dived at least twice by the entire team taking a shower is now more dangerous than tower diving and every champion turns into a peanut butter sandwich against vayne

80 Comments

GigglesOJan 2, 201750 votes

I absolutely hate this burst meta, it invalidates any skill other than building full nuke and
"I pressed my button first"

S0LST0RMERJan 2, 201717 votes

"i pressed my button first", that is actually so true right now

Votable JesterJan 2, 20172 votes

I get what you mean, but there's still dodging/aiming and positioning at least.

RikariJan 3, 201713 votes

Rengar Vayne you cant even see where they're coming from,how do you position?

Votable JesterJan 3, 20174 votes

Rengar : See indicator -> go to your high-cc teammates or under tower. Vayne : Her stealth is too short to surprise you unless she's hiding in a bush/fog of war like any other champion. If you're squishy, stay out of her fairly short range, and help cc/blow her up when she reappears after tumble. If you're tanky, it's a bit harder for me to say (I'm a mage main), but most likely you try to keep yourself positioned between her and your adc/mid. Tank also helps cc her for the team to blow her up.

Also with regard to your "you cant even see where they're coming from," Rengar gives warning, so you should at least know that he's coming before he arrives, and use that time to run to your teammates/tower. Vayne's stealth is such a short duration that even if you can't see her, you should have a circle in your mind of where she could be, compare that to where she wants to go, and figure out where she is with that.

Invisibility =/= invincibility

HollowMimicJan 3, 20171 votes

Rengar go under tower?

There are threads that ask for turret buffs because he's one of the champs that can jump in, kill u in a sec and get out with more than 50% (not at the start but he can do it later or eventually)

Votable JesterJan 3, 20173 votes

I didn't say it was easy. You'll likely need to blow at least one summoner and hit him with at least one hard cc to turn it around.

Anyways I was talking about positioning against stealth. If the enemy can dive, kill you, and easily walk out, their stealth is far less relevant to that situation. If you're under tower, they're much easier to predict as their avenues of attack are narrowed and they're unable to get very close to you without revealing themselves.

I'm not saying these champions are or aren't balanced, but there is optimal positioning against them even when they're stealthed.

Edit: Also I agree that turrets need to be buffed. Diving is super easy right now, but being under tower is still safer than the middle of nowhere (especially if you take bushes into consideration).

TaliyahcJan 3, 20171 votes

And if my champ does have cc? I can beat rengar with leblanc but adcs really can't outplay him nowadays, I feel like he's the only assassin reworked that didnt lose their 100 to 0 burst in .5 seconds from the rework

blueberrypancakeJan 3, 20174 votes

I'm just trying to think, is there any bot lane champion that people would not bitch about if they were meta?

Like Sivir was close 2 years ago, but she would always get bf sword faster than her lane opponent

Back when people didn't want engage supports and wanted healers to be more viable they got pissed that you could just win by being passive.

The closest i can come up with in my mind is if the ezreal leona lane became the benchmark because it would actually give vayne a strategic niche rather than it being a kill everything niche.

QuindecJan 3, 20172 votes

Sona with a item 3100

CowseedJan 2, 201728 votes

And the Ziggs complaints have started already. I predicted a week but this is about just 3 or 4 days.

http://imgur.com/b2qtPpO.png

Sagan ForeverJan 2, 20173 votes

Zigs has been played for over a week, played agaist one 10'days ago in a norms.

Velzard of KozJan 2, 20178 votes

When people started complaining about Ziggs bot I was at first like "How is that new? I've seen him going support multiple times". Then saw one video and was like "Oh, they mean bot as in BOT..."

AdriqnoheeJan 2, 20173 votes

Yeah the real botlaner, not the extra luggage.

dragon1xxJan 2, 201714 votes

{quoted}

Yeah the real botlaner, not the extra luggage.

Sir, I think you meant "That one guy that saves my ass and wards for me but I don't give a shit about that cuz he has no kills since he gave em all to me, oh wait report he has no kills."

Sraeg2013Jan 2, 20177 votes

What he meant, I think, were your typical steal-CS, steal kills, rush full AP Lux "supports".

WeatheredJan 2, 201721 votes

Just some context, Ziggs could always destroy towers with his passive+satchel. You just didn't see it as much because he wasn't popular and was risky, but now that there are so many roaming mid laners he can do what he wants.

LightSwordJan 2, 20175 votes

The thing is, he's starting to be played bot lane now.

KnalxzJan 3, 20179 votes

And? People literally complain about diversity all the time, but when it actually comes they complain that it's stupid.

GrReaper96Jan 2, 20172 votes

Expect people are playing him botlane now and ADC mid for that no fortification first blood tower

dominusxJan 2, 201719 votes

well that's how rito promotes diversity. the only diversity we have atm is dive bot or go 10-0 in lane. you dont win otherwhise

GiantEnemyShacoJan 2, 20179 votes

What's funny is that if you play Heroes of the Storm, Blizzard seems to understand that concept. Being "bursted" down in Heroes means getting 100-0'd in 3 to 4 seconds, since mobility is rare in that game and damage is even rarer. There's more than enough time to understand why you died. Not just, "What the fuck just hit me for 3k out of nowhere?"

AdriqnoheeJan 2, 20179 votes

Most of the problems in league right now originate from summoner 4 and the mobility creep it caused.

GiantEnemyShacoJan 2, 201711 votes

I think flash is an important spell to the dynamic of League. What causes problems is when Riot goes, "Well, we have flash, but why don't we give new champs built-in flashes with some gimmick!" I mean, Ezreal isn't at all unbalanced, imo, but seriously, his E is LITERALLY a better version of flash in every way. Longer range. Shorter CD. Damages the nearest enemy on landing. There wasn't even any creativity, Riot were just like, "What if we made one of his ability a super low CD flash?" and made a champ from that.

AdriqnoheeJan 2, 20178 votes

The problem with Flash is that it gives mobility to champions who are designed to not have any (Darius for instance) so for squishy champions to escape from them they need to have even more mobility on top of flash, and the guys designed to kill those squishes need even more mobility to be able to deal with them, thus a mobility creep was created just because Riot tough they could make people NOT want to use flash, they created something and then refused to see that it was extremely toxic to the game, and that's something they told us themselves, right before saying that they couldn't remove flash anymore because it became a core part of the game, and if they did remove it would completely screw up the game balance.

ZT XperimentorJan 2, 20178 votes

I see pre-season 6 has ccontinued . . .

Echo545Jan 2, 20177 votes

https://i.gyazo.com/d37627f64fd9aa1b060d403c11630972.gif What burst?

GrReaper96Jan 2, 20171 votes

To be fair this is from before the assassin rework since veigar didnt get marked

Echo545Jan 2, 20172 votes

True, but he still can do the same thing

EnloctJan 2, 20172 votes

Not really. Before he scaled on his opponent's AP. Now he only gets a damage buff for missing health.

Mistress MadokaJan 3, 20172 votes

That has nothing to do with the Assassin update

Echo545Jan 3, 20172 votes

Right, it relates to burst, which is what this topic is about

Ap Mid BurstJan 2, 20177 votes

Meanwhile the real things that should have burst-Assassins, have delays..

Fondling GemsJan 2, 20175 votes

Hey man, showers are scary. There is a reason they make those no slip rubber mats to stand on.

Legacy HydralphaJan 2, 20175 votes

Wait this is Memes and Games why are we talking about gameplay balance?

Out of here! https://media.giphy.com/media/mQG6w1190KYN2/giphy.gif

GigglesOJan 3, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Legacy Hydralpha,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=dyApzfkP,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2017-01-02T19:30:07.734+0000)

Wait this is Memes and Games why are we talking about gameplay balance?

Out of here! https://media.giphy.com/media/mQG6w1190KYN2/giphy.gif

Because riot treats their balance like a meme and game...

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRRTcOz1KqzRf82YXn7EX_ATMC7y1FJ6oQibNu7dBSvPDc86Z8QmA

Legacy HydralphaJan 3, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Because riot treats their balance like a meme and game...

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRRTcOz1KqzRf82YXn7EX_ATMC7y1FJ6oQibNu7dBSvPDc86Z8QmA

Fair enough.

aspects1Jan 2, 20172 votes

and the funny part is, assassins arent even good

xeviJan 3, 20172 votes

Leblanc Katarina

heehee xd

aspects1Jan 3, 20174 votes

*most

softest boyJan 3, 20172 votes

I am a control mage / burst mage main, but even I agree that a tankier meta is a lot more healthy and interesting. I seriously wouldn't mind it going back to the times where burst mages focused on squishies instead of just everyone. I'll still be able to eliminate the carries that step out of line. I shouldn't be melting Malphites and Sejuanis as they come, however.

YFisfabulousBRUHJan 3, 20172 votes

Upvoted just for "wind type pokemon hasaki"

idontgiveabotherJan 2, 20171 votes

Did this happen last year? I only started playing since last February and I don't remember balancing being this horrendous.

FantasySniperJan 2, 201716 votes

The burst meta was prophesized by the season 6's preseason, where they overhauled the mastery system, and Thunderlords became (and still is to this day) the most used keystone. They proceeded to add Duskblade, Hextech Protobelt, "diversified" the dragons, implemented the first tower bounty, and updated the assassin class. I believe the Burst Meta truly started around 6.18, when they went and balanced purely for the competitive scene by buffing Lee Sin and Lux, and nerfing Taliyah and Shen.

From 5.5, when they introduced Cinderhulk, all the way up until 5.16, the juggernaut update, was one of the best states of balance for the game. Most early game junglers didn't have the pressure they once did, so games actually felt decently paced because tanks actually existed. They introduced great balance changes in response to the meta, like with Black Cleaver changes and the utility mastery tree update. (Except for the blight that was Runeglaive, because it made Ezreal meta as fuck)

But then they introduced the fuck-up that was the Juggernaut update, where Darius reined supreme, and ADCs built Sterak's Gage.

ThefrostyvikingJan 2, 20172 votes

To be fair, mages were scary as hell too during the juggernaut meta, i don't recall which ones but as a ADC you got sterak to survive oneshots and deny darius his dunking.... also helped that it was both cheap and strong.

FantasySniperJan 2, 20172 votes

Everyone started building tank, it was just most noticable that ADCs (especially the melee ADCs) were doing it to counter the rise of tanks with reliable damage.

GaryFreakinnnOakJan 2, 20175 votes

{quoted}

The burst meta was prophesized by the season 6's preseason, where they overhauled the mastery system, and Thunderlords became (and still is to this day) the most used keystone. They proceeded to add Duskblade, Hextech Protobelt, "diversified" the dragons, implemented the first tower bounty, and updated the assassin class. I believe the Burst Meta truly started around 6.18, when they went and balanced purely for the competitive scene by buffing Lee Sin and Lux, and nerfing Taliyah and Shen.

From 5.5, when they introduced Cinderhulk, all the way up until 5.16, the juggernaut update, was one of the best states of balance for the game. Most early game junglers didn't have the pressure they once did, so games actually felt decently paced because tanks actually existed. They introduced great balance changes in response to the meta, like with Black Cleaver changes and the utility mastery tree update. (Except for the blight that was Runeglaive, because it made Ezreal meta as fuck)

But then they introduced the fuck-up that was the Juggernaut update, where Darius reined supreme, and ADCs built Sterak's Gage.

This post should have more upvotes. This is 100% what has happened to the game since the end of S5. Damage is out of control and the mastery system overhaul just added damage and power disproportionately to specific champs. Riot hasn't had a control state to try new things since 5.15, just keep adding more and more stuff and hope it fixes the problems.

My entire group of friends (8+ people) used to play league until 5.16 and since then they've slowly been quitting the game (A bunch left during the devourer fiasco and then the rest left after the new mastery systems turned the game on its head, the complaints about the game just kept mounting with every change after being in love with the game for years). My friend who took a year and a half break came back to try it out again and was confused as fuck why some junglers could 100-0 him with no gank assistance and why the jungler was the same level as him.

Masteries have completely changed the way the game is played and it was not a change that made the game more interesting or more dynamic, it has homogonized how you trade and how you're forced to play the game. Mid lane is now a three hit thunderlords minigame which has as much influence over who won the trade than the abilities used. Courage of the colossus gives free health to champions that shouldn't be getting free health. Winspeaker's blessing has given hidden power to healing/shielding supports and made them significantly strong for over a year now.

All of this combined has made squishies die faster and tanks die more slowly (part of poppy's problem right now is CoC), no wonder ADCs are just a walking bag of gold. Riot needs to slow down on making changes and balance the game out, at their current pace the game feels like it is in a state of balance for about 3 months out of the year and the rest of the time you're just hoping the bullshit gets banned.

/EndRant

ƒoesJan 2, 20171 votes

come on guys...i was gone for 1 week and ziggs is good now?

Brownie ElfieJan 2, 20178 votes

He was always this good

RomtheguyJan 3, 20173 votes

No one expected it to be this kind of good with his serious pushing power lol I've been wanting Ziggs for a while and have been putting off getting him for too long now!