But Bro Kench gets 3 stacks,stuns you,spits you into his team and rinse repeat instantly all while having the damage to kill you himself as tank support...i dont understand? And yes i know braums team can help stack but tahms team will help kill not to mention after the stun all tahm's stacks remain EDIT: Didn't expect this to get upvoted,lets see some more discussions
Jbels35 votesTahm doesn't have a giant Teamfight ult that knocks people up and then creates a slow field (Rumbles love it), Braum's passive can also be used to stun people simultaneously, while Tahm must go from one to the other.
Darkvaine13 votesdont forget the shield that blocks projectiles and reduces the rest with ms boost, the escape to a unit jump giving others mr and armor, and the mustache, cant forget that.
Dark Nephthys20 votesBraum doesn't have a 32% max health damage skill that also CC's the enemy giving them no vision or really counterplay but for "Don't go near him with max stacks". Not to mention Tahm also has his E which either is good for sustain or practically a free 2nd health bar.
Braum's passive can't apply on the same target for a certain amount of time and while it's true that allies can help stack it, what's annoying is the fact that as a support, Tahm just does way to much damage. If you're the adc and you run into their support Tahm you're basically dead because he can solo you (unless you're insanely fed..). You can't escape from him, and with a bit of CDR you might get hit by his devour 2 times in a 1v1 fight which...was basically 64% of your max health from a full tank support..
At least with Braum you can escape from since his stun has a CD between them and after his stun + ult which doesn't do a lot of damage, you only have to worry about dodging his slow from his Q. Also unlike TK, Braum can't really add stacks on you from range but for his Q which can be blocked my minions. TK can use his Q (which deals more damage and has less CD than Braum's Q) and can spit minions at you for stacks which has a very large aoe range, so hiding behind minions won't help all the time.
Jbels6 votes[{quoted}](name=Dark Nephthys,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VijiNcRd,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-12-17T18:13:28.406+0000)
Braum doesn't have a 32% max health damage skill that also CC's the enemy giving them no vision or really counterplay but for "Don't go near him with max stacks". Not to mention Tahm also has his E which either is good for sustain or practically a free 2nd health bar.
Braum's passive can't apply on the same target for a certain amount of time and while it's true that allies can help stack it, what's annoying is the fact that as a support, Tahm just does way to much damage. If you're the adc and you run into their support Tahm you're basically dead because he can solo you (unless you're insanely fed..). You can't escape from him, and with a bit of CDR you might get hit by his devour 2 times in a 1v1 fight which...was basically 64% of your max health from a full tank support..
At least with Braum you can escape from since his stun has a CD between them and after his stun + ult which doesn't do a lot of damage, you only have to worry about dodging his slow from his Q. Also unlike TK, Braum can't really add stacks on you from range but for his Q which can be blocked my minions. TK can use his Q (which deals more damage and has less CD than Braum's Q) and can spit minions at you for stacks which has a very large aoe range, so hiding behind minions won't help all the time.
You're comparing two different things like one is offensive because it does what it's good at better than the other. Tahm is meant to be a tanky damage threat that can either lock down one person in a fight, or keep his mouth ready to save the ADC. Braum is meant solely for peeling, not damage. The fact that you're whining about Tahm's damage at all is funny enough, but the fact that you're saying it's too much just because he does more damage than Braum is just hilarious.
Should I pull up the quote again where Riot literally tells everyone to stop bitching about his damage because it's justified? You can keep complaining if you want to, or you can learn how to play around Tahm.
Sir Yamazuki11 votesYou're comparing two different things like one is offensive because it does what it's good at better than the other. Tahm is meant to be a tanky damage threat that can either lock down one person in a fight, or keep his mouth ready to save the ADC. Braum is meant solely for peeling, not damage. The fact that you're whining about Tahm's damage at all is funny enough, but the fact that you're saying it's too much just because he does more damage than Braum is just hilarious.
Should I pull up the quote again where Riot literally tells everyone to stop bitching about his damage because it's justified? You can keep complaining if you want to, or you can learn how to play around Tahm.
"Offensive"? What exactly about Tahm's kit is any more "offensive" than Braum other than being over loaded with damage? Q is cc, W is cc or save an ally, E is a 2ndary health bar or sustain and R is just positioning. Tanks, whether immobile or not, shouldn't be dealing a lot of damage, there's a good reason why Juggernauts/some Bruisers with that damage will not have any hard cc and very little utility. It's stupid to allow a champion to have high durability, good damage, a lot off cc and a lot of utility. He also does their level of damage without even building a single half offensive items, at least bruisers have to build BC/SG, Tahm skips all that and builds boots+5 defensive items.
Just because Riot said it's justified doesn't mean it is, especially when it contradicts what they said about champions like Garen, who was seen as "very sticky", Tahm can stick to a target with higher reliability while allowing his entire team to catch up to the target where as champions like Garen only allow themselves to stay on the target leaving their team behind. Riot has, and always will continue to contradict themselves and break their own rules as long as people like you exist.
Yuri By Mail4 votes"Just because Riot said it's justified doesn't mean it is"
So the people with the ultimate decision making power are wrong because some Platinum said so? Oh great one, capable of merely a portion of the endless climb, do impart your eternal wisdom on this lost soul. Please divulge thy balancing philosophy so that those like me; those wandering the eternal plain may find peace. I beseech you, self-proclaimed Usurper of the Balance team pantheon and their vile gods!
3TWarrior2 votesthe poster merely wishes to point out that riot's balancing decisions rarely make sense and tend to destroy diversity when an unseen champion actually comes into play
Yuri By Mail1 votesThe simple fact that you'd complain about Blitzcrank and Chogath a post or two down gives me all the reason more to not bother with any point you could possibly raise.
3TWarrior1 votesone, I simply stated facts about blitz and chogath, not that they weren't without counters or counterplay. I love chogath because he's strong but not broken or overpowered and blitzcrank I mentioned that his entire strength is one aspect of his kit that should the chance occur, he will get to nuke one target and one target only, but that has huge potential
also, if you would like to point out posts among this thread, you mentioned that you should never duel yasuo...yasuo is a champ that makes the laning phase hell for mid lane and team fight phase far too annoying for other players, however, when it comes to dueling, there are tons of champs that duel him and win
Shonjl1 votesTroll post.
Also its funny to hear people say just because the creators said something means its correct. Whats goes is what the overall customer base says.
Tomorrow literally a huge majority of the playerbase can all start saying delete Tahm Kench or we will leave LoL(And I mean actually do it, not the lol quitting league threads that people post here and still play that very day) and once Riot sees they aren't kidding and they are losing millions of people in rapid succession, they will do it. They would have no choice.
I know that is an extreme example but that is how businesses work. They make the ideas and maintain whatever their product is, but the consumer is the one that tells which direction it goes else all the maker's work is for nothing.
I mean hell, simplier example if you won't listen to that is Blitzcrank. He was orginally meant to be a top laner, a fighter that can help the team as well with his grab. People made him a support and said he was a support. So Riot changed him to being a support.
Yuri By Mail1 votesShow those cows a proper replacement then to leave for. You know, how a Capitalist society works? Cause all I hear is an empty threat.
There is nothing wrong with conditional 32% max health damage when it's gated that much. Know who else can do 32% of your max health with a similar amount of conditions? Just about every mage. Dodge Morgana's binding. Don't get the space aids on you. Don't stand on top of Ekko's chronoshift destination. And don't make us bring up supports like Annie or Velkoz, who have such small gates on their burst it's ridiculous.
And before you even bring up dueling a toplane or jungle Kench, how come you have champions you're not supposed to duel but you can't count Kench as one? How come you don't count Yasuo as a champion you're ill-advised to duel alone? Yi? Darius? Fiora? Gangplank? Garen? Nasus? Tryndamere? Renekton? What about champions on the other end of the spectrum of "don't duel this alone"? Malphite? Rammus? Mundo? Maokai? Sion?
But I'm sure you'd accept there's champions you don't have to duel in lane. How come complaints about Kench are always centered around the presumption that you HAVE to fight him?
Play some goddamned Nasus, get some perspective. You don't have to make flashy plays to win.
macromite6 votesyou mean the one where they said he he has a hard time sticking to targets?
Jbels4 votesyou mean the one where they said he he has a hard time sticking to targets?
He only has an easy time sticking to people who let him get close enough to them
macromite8 votesyup, anyone who gets within 800 units of him. 2 second 70% slow at 800 units on a 3 second cd. yup, no way that can stick to anything. especially since if he hits the 70% slow 3 times the target gets stunned for 1.5 seconds. yup, could never see that sticking to anything.
Jbels4 votesyup, anyone who gets within 800 units of him. 2 second 70% slow at 800 units on a 3 second cd. yup, no way that can stick to anything. especially since if he hits the 70% slow 3 times the target gets stunned for 1.5 seconds. yup, could never see that sticking to anything.
If you're sick of getting hit with his Q, stop being predictable
Dark Nephthys6 votesConsidering that his Q is on a 6 second CD (or 3.6 with max cdr) and cost very low amount of mana, even if you weren't predictable...one of those Q's will hit you and if you get hit it's very easy for him to get those stacks on you since his melee range is higher than most other melee champions and you were just hit by a 70% slow.
Basically if you're up against a top lane TK, unless you're playing a range champion, or a melee champion with a lot of mobility...he will easily stun-devour you for more than half your HP, and then just wait 6-10 seconds and repeat to finish you off. Also about when you mentioned about "practically no ultimate" yes technically in a 1v1, or 2v2 fight you don't officially have a usable ultimate for that fight...but it's the same situations with 
they also don't have an ultimate you can use in a 1v1 fight since it's about using it to help out another lane and create an advantage in the fight with them.
Which I do find it funny that TK's ultimate is longer range, and way less CD than Twisted Fate...Considering that's basically what makes TF is the fact he can just ult in and create an advantage from his teleport, and yet this random support has a better version and one that can even bring in another team member to teleport 2 people...But I know, before you say it "Now you're comparing a Mid-lane mage/assassin to Tahm Kench!" I'm not comparing them themselves just pointing out that his ultimate is the same or better than twisted fate's considering that TF's teleport is what makes him TF.
tl;dr - No matter how "good" you are, one of his Q's would prob hit you and he can very easily Stun-Devour you for about half or more HP and repeat again. Having no combat ultimate doesn't instantly make his damage "fair" since other champions are the same.
DeathToEcchi3 votes
and 
don't like the attention you're bringing to ranged permaslows.....
Dark Nephthys1 votes and Mini those slows are the only form of CC that they have, and in case of Mundo once you dodge one you are generally fine. Gnar, and Olaf have to pick theirs up/catch to allow them to try to perma slow you. Lulu is very squishy at least and can be easy to turn and fight and kill her, and the other 3 don't have as much damage as Tahm Kench.
LithiumWednesday1 votes3TWarrior3 votesand sejuani...and warwick...and swain
they buffed chogath, lol
and they're considering nerfing mundo
then there's nautilus (master of crowd control dealing too much damage when he already did below support level damage, lol)
blitzcrank is all or nothing but his all greatly outweighs the nothing
fizz, ekko and diana can all build tanky and still annihilate their target
why Riot, why?
but wait, let's nerf anivia and swain, who haven't seen play in years XD
UrPalAl4 votesYou can make any champion seem OP when you talk like that:
"Jayce has the longest non-ult poke in the game, THATS AOE, a AS steroid that increases his AS to 2.5, and increases his AD (AND CRITS FOR LIKE OVER 2K), an AOE 55% speed up, 25% Armor AND MR shred from one auto, a built in lichbane, 35 FREE Armor and MR, meaning he technically has the highest Armor and MR at lvl 18, with 115.8 Armor, and 65 MR (runes and masteries not included, an AOE gapcloser with a 55% slow that can infinitely slow since it only has a 3 SECOND COOLDOWN, free mana regen for every auto so he never goes oom, free DoT for amazing waveclear and AOE damage, and a knockback that doubles as an execute which does 20% of the targets MAX HP (+1.0 AD) as MAGIC DAMAGE, and to top it all off he gains a free MS buff whenever he switches stances every 3 seconds AND he can run through units, like wtf." - Said no one ever.
Shonjl2 votesThe only thing I find amusing is I remember when Devourer was a big deal people bitched so hard about Shyvana since she can do %max health damage as well. But hers isn't even that big unless comboed with her Q.
Tahm can do literally a 3rd of your hp as a support and no one bats an eye? At least without being ridiculed?
I really don't try to cry OP on a lot of champs, if anything I just hate a champ since they are very annoying or gimmicky. But Tahm truly should have never existed. A free get out of jail free card in and of itself is already stupid. He is literally a walking Zhonyas to everyone on his team with only dots going through which only a very small handful of champs have available to them. Tanky as hell since his passive makes him build HP which makes him hit harder.
I mean what were they trying to go for with him? On paper he seems like a great support. A ranged slow to keep the target slowed, devourer to throw them back into danger, a lot of tankiness to withstand damage, an ult which is the perfect ganking tool or cleanup crew, can eat an ally and save them from certain death. But then out of nowhere he has this massive %max health damage? What the hell?
killd0zer13 votesits almost like they're different champions and comparing a kit-wide mechanic against a single ability isn't effective huh?
DeathBurst2 votesIt's a bit silly to compare 2 champions for balance purpose, granted. But for both of them, their stacks are a "kit-wide" mechanic. Braum Q applies a stack, and it's whole offense side revolves around "how can I proc my stacks?". I love to jump on a minion that the ADC is last hitting and surprise him with an AA :)
delonix1 votesI don't think having 1 ability that interacts with the passive really makes it "kit-wide." To be fair, Tahm only has 2, but that's still twice as much as Braum, plus Tahm has more complex interactions. I guess Tahm can use his ult to get in range to proc his passive and his E allows him to get close to proc the passive without worrying about dying, but I think if you look beyond direct interactions boots will interact with most abilities.
That's all besides the point though. Whether it's "kit-side" or not, comparing parts of 2 champions (because really, the OP isn't even trying to compare Braum and Tahm, just their stack mechanics) is not a good way to understand the game.
Melledoneus1 votesIt's not about Braum having a longer cooldown for his passive. It's about Tahm Kench becoming an AP assassin by building full tank.
Lady Hammerlock1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dark Nephthys,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VijiNcRd,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-12-17T18:13:28.406+0000)
Braum doesn't have a 32% max health damage skill that also CC's the enemy giving them no vision or really counterplay but for "Don't go near him with max stacks". Not to mention Tahm also has his E which either is good for sustain or practically a free 2nd health bar.
Braum's passive can't apply on the same target for a certain amount of time and while it's true that allies can help stack it, what's annoying is the fact that as a support, Tahm just does way to much damage. If you're the adc and you run into their support Tahm you're basically dead because he can solo you (unless you're insanely fed..). You can't escape from him, and with a bit of CDR you might get hit by his devour 2 times in a 1v1 fight which...was basically 64% of your max health from a full tank support..
At least with Braum you can escape from since his stun has a CD between them and after his stun + ult which doesn't do a lot of damage, you only have to worry about dodging his slow from his Q. Also unlike TK, Braum can't really add stacks on you from range but for his Q which can be blocked my minions. TK can use his Q (which deals more damage and has less CD than Braum's Q) and can spit minions at you for stacks which has a very large aoe range, so hiding behind minions won't help all the time.
don't forget unlike Tahm you can use cleanse/oranges/QSS to remove the braum passive(stun part of it)
NazZomLord1 votesTahm doesn't have a giant Teamfight ult that knocks people up and then creates a slow field (Rumbles love it), Braum's passive can also be used to stun people simultaneously, while Tahm must go from one to the other.
Knocks up 1 person, just clarifying
Biffolo2 votesNo, multiple people. Just the followup ones are shorter duration knockups.
Rubber Jesus1 votesTahm doesn't have a giant Teamfight ult that knocks people up and then creates a slow field (Rumbles love it), Braum's passive can also be used to stun people simultaneously, while Tahm must go from one to the other.
Tahm can chain CC stupidly well with stacks not falling off. So you can stun, eat, stun, etc. The CD for the stun is the same as how long you can eat them: 6 seconds. So that is 9 seconds of CC. If stacks fell off after an empowered ability, it would be more fair. You have to damage them 3 times to get empowered again.
dr lichdeath1 votesthe only thing id complain about tahm is the fect that he can chase and q u to death cuz his stacks simply dont fall off fast enough
Cheese Pope1 votesalso allies can apply the braum stacks, tahm has to do it himself
Beldair8 votesTahm, while annoying, is good where he is. Besides, i was able to 1v1 a support Tahm as Braum. The moustache never get's cooked. Plus he's the perfect counter to adcs and supports like Morgana and Lux. Braum can eat the Morgana stun for the adc when they don't have a good escape while Tahm just sits there with no defense except devour to rescue the adc.
Durzaka7 votesBecause Tahm is the only one who can apply his stun.
Could you image Braum tagging each person on the enemy once getting 5 stuns because his team pops them, then doing it again right afterwards?
DeathBurst1 votesHow do you apply 10 times your passive, though? Only you can proc the first stack, as Braum, so to get 5 stuns is already pretty hard, but to get a 5-man stun 2 times, even if you could re-apply stacks immediately? Darn impossible...
No, the real reason you can't re-apply stack is not because of 5-man stuns, it's the opposite. If you could re-apply stacks immediately, you could chain-stun anyone in 1v1 or 2v2 scenarios.
Durzaka1 votesThe point still remains the same though.
Tahm can chain his passive because he is the only one who can proc it (also it doesnt stun automatically on third stack, he needs his Q for that).
Whereas Braum's is any ally, and given that he is teamed up with someone building attack speed, chaining his stun would be ungodly.
DeathBurst1 votesTrue, but the point of OP is: Tahm chaining his stuns/devour is ungodly too.
Xeynid7 votesShit like this keeps getting posted and it needs to stop.
Braum isn't tahm Kench. There's the answer you're looking for.
/thread
LadyRenly6 votesTahm isn't Braum
TurquoiseYoshi2 votesThey rhyme, it's close enough.
Virgin Ray6 votesWhat wraps my head around is why you would still be able to have an acquired taste for something you throw up.
Transgressor5 votesThat's because Tahm's Nomnom soaks a massive amount of his power budget, so he has to have tools to make him feel like his other abilities are actually usefull.
Braum on the other hand has a fuckton of tools to do his thing IN CONJUNCTION, the passive being one of them.
Calabok4 votesDon't forget Braum is cheerful and positive while the ugly frog just wants to cook and get you in his belly.
Dengeden4 votesYou guys have such a hard-on for 1v1 champs... I hope Kench will still be playable after you get him nerfed 3 times.
Rubber Jesus2 votesMy husband plays Tahm support a lot. From him I learned:
He was not happy to see the movement speed boost with ally swallowed go. This hinders support Kench.
He doesn't get why he does so much % max health damage. He would rather keep the utility to see this decreased.
He has told me the main problem with his stickiness is that the stacks do not disappear after you are eaten. Typically, stacks go back to zero after a function like this. Even without a timer. After braums stun, you don't remain at 4 stacks; it's reset to zero. With Tahm, he can stun them with Q (6 second CD), eat them for 6 seconds (6 second CD), spit them out, stun them with Q, etc. The stacks never drop. He said it's stupid you can lock down a mobile champion like Ahri with a tank that has obscene CC and damage. He has 3v1 before on a support build and got a triple kill.
I think that if you use an empowered ability, the stacks should reset. So you eat them, spit them out, and then you have to put 3 more stacks on before you can eat again or stun.
The Lexer2 votesBut while Tahm can stun twice, he can only eat once because the cooldown is really long. It's also harder for him to stick to an opponent.
Colgate Minuette2 votesYou're all seeming to miss the point:
The answer to beating a champion in lane should never be "dodge literally everything ever" or "cc him for 20 seconds straight until he dies"
You cannot dodge everything. I'm willing to bet in lane if I'm tahm kench against you after the first 10~ so minutes of play I've learned how you dodge and I'm gonna land at least 50% of my Q's if not 80% it's not a hard skill to land its projectile speed is super fast so you can't just move according to where you see it going sometimes unless you're looking specifically for it.
If you do get hit, you WILL DIE. There is no question there if you get hit by tahm's Q in lane and you're not right next to your turret they are going to kill you. Cause now tahm just exhausts you, walks right up to you and starts autoing. Assuming you flash he just flashes with you point blank Q's then devours you tears apart your entire health bar his ADC kills you then he walks away cause Sona can't get through his E shield if she wanted to. And if tahm wanted to now he can turn around and kill her too cause tahm doesn't give a fuck
The first game I played this cancer champ my ADC didn't die a single time they went 8/0/2 my first time playing it and you can't just say "really good ADC" cause the guy had never played jinx before and furthermore hardly ever played ADC he was a jungle main. (my friend was playing with me) This champ is the cancer of bot lane.
I play a lot of bot lane, I play a lot of bot lane champs including 
And of all my games of support, no matter how much I enjoy playing this role. I won't go bot lane against this champion because I just cannot stand losing lane for no good reason. And even when hes not specifically in my lane he'll just come kill me anyway like what the fuck? You wana talk about azir being a strong lane bully? Watch Tahm kench plow right through his soldiers E proc shield his way through their autos slow stun and devour azir and kill him. It's fucking disgusting.
I permaban this champion.
NONE of his skills should scale off max health in fact no champion in the games abilitys should scale off max health it's just a terrible fucking scaling it makes this games tank meta into pure cancer and ruins everyones fun.
