Warwick's W passive came up 3 times, and Ashe did damage to me with nothing I guess
We've had death log since Season 1, the only thing that's changed is the boarder around it I'm pretty sure. It's old and way outdated, and I don't think it'd be very hard to fix it.
Verarticus23 votes"We want to increase clarity!" ignores the most blatantly unclear system in the game that's been there since the game was made
Karn Bishop1 votesFrom what i understand its not that they don't wish to fix this but while people were still using both old and new clients the could not test the code for it, i believe that the increased end game stats is part of a larger statistics update to allow the death screens to be far more accurate.
FilDaFunk6 votesJust split it into Physical/Magic/True damage totals, at least.
Sinlaire3 votesI've been playing since the end of Season 3 and Riot has reworked the Death Recap twice since then.
the problem is, and Riot has stated this, that it needs constant maintenance.
Riot goes in and makes sure every summoner spell, every item effect, every champion ability, every act of god is accounted for and reading correctly in the death recap.
Then a year goes by; several new champions are released, several are reworked from the ground up, a dozen champions are mini reworked, dozens of items are changed, the jungle gets turned on its head, dragon/baron/herald get a fresh coat of paint, and turrets get their numbers poked in various ways out of curiosity.
Now tell me if all of that on a yearly basis may or may not effect the death recap's ability to reliably display information without having near monthly tuning?
In short, Riot said they need to find a way to fix recap and have it rebuilt in a way that allows them to constanly make sure it is accurate rather than having to do grand sweeping changes of it like currently. because the last time they fixed it they practically had to re-code it from the ground up and now it's out dated and would need to be done again to fix it.
Now that the new Alpha client is out, they probably have the ability to rebuild the code again in a way that lets them nail it down finally. But it still needs to be budgeted and time slotted in Rito's ever full schedule.
Decrit2 votesthe alpha client is different from the in-game client. It allows different champion picks and game modes but does not affect the game itself.
Sinlaire1 votesyes. but the alpha client eats up a considerable amount of visual and programming budget that can be freed up for different levels of work now that it has reached release status.
The alpha client may run on a separate system, but the creators of that system arent necessarily incapable of moving from one system to the other once one reaches "completion".
Decrit1 votesyes. but the alpha client eats up a considerable amount of visual and programming budget that can be freed up for different levels of work now that it has reached release status.
look, lemme clearcut about this, you are the person that knows least about that. Budget in big companies is never totally convertible in something else, wether you are talking about cash money or resources.
Sinlaire1 votesSO you're telling me that once a big company finishes working on a project, instead of moving those whom worked on the project to a new one they just fire them or something?
because ANY company IS that clear cut.
they do one of two things. they either 1) use the freed up manpower to work on a NEW project or they 2) use the freed up manpower to work an existing project.
you dont need to clear cut anything because its already as simple as it gets. if your boss tells you to do something, once you're done he tells you to do something new or to help someone else with their thing. or he sends your cranky ass home. dont be a douche and dont act like you know what you're talking about when you're words are as vague as they are aggressive.
Money and rescources ALWAYS go SOMEWHERE. they dont just disappear when things get done because manpower IS a rescource that is always transferable as long as you have people employed. if you dont have money after completing a project to have your people start new work, then that's a budgeting issue. But for a company as wealthy as Rito, i doubt they have very many of those.
Decrit1 votesdude dude dude dude.
Remember that a company never has a single process. There are many different priorities to pick up, stratified in different layers. Things that might need different amounts of resources allocated, or of different kind. You can't start to develop a code for project A if you have freed X coders but you need Y more, and likewise you can't do so if those X are not coders but designers of some discipline.
You can't also throw money at random because you could end up on different issues, actually causing damage to yourself.
Wgat i am saying here is that you, me and everyone else in this board and beyond know shit about how Riot is organizing everything on the inside. Thinking otherwise is plain arrogance, not even the coworkers themselves fully know the scope of what's around them other than the stuff they are working on and direct consequences, and that not just on Riot but is actually a common thing!
Verarticus2 votesI've been playing since the end of Season 3 and Riot has reworked the Death Recap twice since then.
the problem is, and Riot has stated this, that it needs constant maintenance.
Riot goes in and makes sure every summoner spell, every item effect, every champion ability, every act of god is accounted for and reading correctly in the death recap.
Then a year goes by; several new champions are released, several are reworked from the ground up, a dozen champions are mini reworked, dozens of items are changed, the jungle gets turned on its head, dragon/baron/herald get a fresh coat of paint, and turrets get their numbers poked in various ways out of curiosity.
Now tell me if all of that on a yearly basis may or may not effect the death recap's ability to reliably display information without having near monthly tuning?
In short, Riot said they need to find a way to fix recap and have it rebuilt in a way that allows them to constanly make sure it is accurate rather than having to do grand sweeping changes of it like currently. because the last time they fixed it they practically had to re-code it from the ground up and now it's out dated and would need to be done again to fix it.
Now that the new Alpha client is out, they probably have the ability to rebuild the code again in a way that lets them nail it down finally. But it still needs to be budgeted and time slotted in Rito's ever full schedule.
In my opinion them putting it off THIS long could be justifiable if it wasn't such an important base mechanic. Being able to tell what you died from and how much damage it did, and what damage you're largely taking overall is pretty important especially for people learning. (or just generally the more hectic teamfights the game is shoved into now) Not only that, but it just really doesn't look professional to leave things like this in the game that are inaccurate, confusing, and non-functional half the time.
If then needed to redo the system then it really SHOULD have been done, or at least had a large portion of it ready to go by now.
Sraeg20131 votesthe problem is, and Riot has stated this, that it needs constant maintenance.
Which is true for every moving part in a constantly updating game. Every change requires double-checking in all related parts of the system, not just Death Recap.
The fact they are specifically neglecting Death Recap for years is simply sad.
Now that the new Alpha client is out, they probably have the ability to rebuild the code again in a way that lets them nail it down finally.
The "Alpha" client and the game client are separate programs, son.
The client you use to play is exactly the same that was used with the "legacy" client.
Sinlaire1 votestrue. but how much of Rito's resources have been eaten up by the creaton of the alpha client and for how long before its release?
Now that it's out, dont you think they could shift some power over to the overhaul of the recap system now that the big unveil is over?
Sraeg20131 votestrue. but how much of Rito's resources have been eaten up by the creaton of the alpha client and for how long before its release?
You make it sound as if they ran out of bricks.
Now that it's out, dont you think they could shift some power over to the overhaul of the recap system now that the big unveil is over?
6Sfool2 votesRecently I was Jarvan with Stoneplate. I probably took about 8K damage during a teamfight since I was stalling to let my team disengage. Last Q came up too late to dash out and I died. Checked the death recap and despite 6 seconds of hard focus, the recap only showed about 800 damage.
jama6552 votesIts incredibly hard to fix and time consuming thats y they havent done it
invisiblecat12 votesThey have tried for years to fix it, but it just seems impossible They just need to remove it, and then build it back up, which will destroy all current bugs since it is new My least favorite bug is when at the bottom it will say something like 100(+200) Damage
Hella Kaiser1 votesmy fav bug is
12 dmg
Sraeg20131 votesThey have tried for years to fix it, but it just seems impossible.
Lol no.
If you actually followed the news you'd know they actually fixed it once, once they actually bothered to put work into it. It broke again a few patches later, because they were mingling with it and haven't bothered to fix it to date.
ShadowParker1 votesThey've said that they'd have to rebuild death recap from the ground up for it to be effective.
They also said that they'll do passes to help it every so often.
AbyssionKnight3 votesYeah they gave that excuse back in like s2. At this point there's no excuse for it not being completely reworked. Riot has the funds to do it. They'd just rather leave parts of their game shitty in order to maximise profit.
Fondling Gems4 votesExcept it isn't just a funds thing, you can't just throw money at something and expect it to exist. Death recap would take a lot of time and resources to build, I am not surprised that Riot deems other areas more important to work on.
Saianna3 votesDeath recap would take a lot of time [...] to build
We asked for it at least since S3. Each season = 1 year. We are almost half way through season 7. So at very least 3 and a half years. That is alot of friggin time.
Death recap would take a lot of [...] resources to build
So, my conclusion of your post [ekhm, clears throat]
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...oh... HAHAHAHAHAHA...hahaha...ah..ha..
Was fun, made me laugh :)
Oh yea there's also this pearl:
I am not surprised that Riot deems other areas more important to work on.
That was their main argument since ever. Like "we can't make new map because we've put our resources somewhere elsewhere", or "this won't happen because we work on something big".
And you know what? They are either working on some top-secret goverment stuff because we haven't heard wht amaze-balls thingie they work on since those arguments started.............. or they are just simply lying.
Fondling Gems2 votesOr you'know, they could have been working on the thousand and one features they have released to us? As a programmer I can say that the amount of money you have does not change the fact that creating something still takes the exact same amount of time and resources.
Thinking otherwise is just silly. But go ahead, throw money at your screen and see if a death recap system suddenly appears. I will wait.
Saianna2 votesfeatures? Season 2-6 was feature-free. Only new client happend, but I have some heavy doubts that they worked on it since season 3~~.
Thinking otherwise is just silly.
Gotta love this argument "if you think otherwise than me then you are sillY!!11111
Like it's top argument, the best of its kind.
Fondling Gems1 votesNew client, new champions, new queues, new gamemodes, hextech crafting, my shop, etc. So yes, we have had a substantial amount of things added to the game.
Also yes, you are being silly if you think that programs are made with money. They are not. They are made with time, effort, and programmers working closely with other programmers, devs, and more to create, bugfix, and maintain them.
Saianna1 votesYou must be out of your tiny mind if you think Riot has only 1 group of "do-it-all" programmers for everything.
Obviously, you have to be really trying to be kidding if you think I haven't known how it goes.
I'm just telling you how things are being done from corporate POV. It's simple. You throw money at something or someone and you get the product. That's how corporations work since ever.
Fondling Gems1 votesJust because they have more than one group doesn't mean they have infinite numbers of resources, especially when those resources often have to work together to get something done. I am speaking from experience as a professional programmer.
It doesn't matter how much you pay me, the products still take time and effort to create, especially if multiple groups have to work together to make them. Suddenly your groups that are working on other things need to be freed up on those things to help develop the new feature. Hiring more people doesn't help because you need the people who are directly working on other features that the new feature is reliant on to help create and maintain this new feature. You can't have others do it because you need the people who are knowledgeable and work on the first feature to integrate their work into this other feature.
Also if throwing money at stuff makes things happen then why do games like Grand Theft Auto V, which boasted a total cost of 265 million dollars to produce, still take 4 years to develop?
Money does not equal results. I don't know what causes you to think this way, but money can only help make the results possible, it does nothing towards actually making them happen. Money is used to hire people and give them the tools they need to create things that they otherwise couldn't. It does not actually make something itself.
Now if you want to actually try making a point at least give some shred of evidence instead of saying the earth is flat and expecting me to give you any credit.
Saianna1 votesI am speaking from experience as a professional programmer.
Dude... calm down.. You might be professional princess for all i know or care.
I must have stepped on your tail or thumb.. or who knows what you have there.
For 3 years (S2-5) Riot has done NOTHING major except of running this game. I'm not saying it was bad. I had fuckton more joy and fun when they didn't mess with shit that shouldn't be messed. But they kept on lying about how they are doing something amazing and they have to focus 110% of their manpower and resources on it. I repeat, for those 3 years nothing changed, nothing has been added nor announced.
That's the whole point of this discussion. Jeez. Anyways, you are tiresome. Not intentionally for sure, but you simply are. It's like i'm forced to have an conversation with a thick wall. So yeah.. Hve fun or.. i dunno (nor care) what you guys are doing out there.
EDIT: I'll just add this one:
Money does not equal results.
This argument is just as right, as it is wrong. And because halftruths are still lies, it's kinda you know.. a lie.
Why? Because corporatio nsuch as Riot (or 10cent) doesn't go for skilled programmers, but cheap ones, who'll learn as they work. Corporations usually avoid having staff full of experienced and expensive ppl. They prefer having ratio of 9 newbies to 1 pro. I know that cause my sis works in IBM for quite some time. As a programmer. Back to the money aspect. For corporations efficiency and revenue are the keywords of their existence. They don't care about some random programming joes or their skills, beyond teir ability to do what they wrote in CV and what will be needed in Riot.
In the end money equals results, cause that's what they care about.
Fondling Gems1 votesWell if you think nothing new has been added then I don't know what to say. I already listed a ton of stuff they added, but since I get the exact same feeling talking with you that you get with me I guess we had best call it here and end this conversation.
Have a good day and good luck on the rift!
Electro5223 votesYou know, I don't even know why people like you play this game.
If you hate the company and product so much, why bother? It makes no sense.
Saianna2 votesnot really. I hate decision riot makes, because I expect them to do better. Or less corporate, at least.
Anidan1 votesEvery game that does well earns itself more detractors than games that don't do well. Why? Because a successful game leads to higher standards for itself, and if they aren't kept to task then they'll coast on success, and that is bad.
Saianna1 votesI think it's simplier. It's like they guy who was lucky to sucessfuly hit up to nice girl twice in a row. he suddenly loses conact in reality and thinks of himself as some hot pie.
Needless to say his lucky days are long gone and now he looks sad and looney at best.
Sinlaire1 votesYou know the death recap DID get a rebuild back in s5/s6 right? Thats when riot came in and color coded the damage types, added percent damage ratios, removed being killed by flash, and all that stuff right?
Granted Riot said when they were done that it wasn't complete and couldn't be finished without necessary resources. Such as them needed to scrap and redo the entire system when they didn't have the capacity to do that.
But now it's S7 and Rito has more money and the Alpha client to work with. So at the least something tells me that previous attempts and future prospects means that they can finally get to it in the future. And also that you saying they havent done ANYTHING is terribly misleading.
Saianna2 votesYou know the death recap DID get a rebuild back in s5/s6 right?
That's not a rework, but visualy putting mascara on half rotten zombies face to make it a lil bit more pleasing.
Nothing inside the main code of telling us what exactly killed us changed. Not even 1 line.
AbyssionKnight1 votesNothing you said refutes my point though. Saying that the time required to make a feature actually work isn't worth it is the same as saying it's not profitable. My entire point was that the higher ups don't want to make the best game possible (in which case a feature being busted for the majority of the games lifespan would be unacceptable), but want to make the most profit possible (which means new and flashy features that will encourage old players to return or bring in new players).
It's a valid approach for business men, but a terrible one for devs that care about their game.
Fondling Gems2 votesNo, I just because something isn't worth it in comparison to creating other features does not mean that it isn't profitable, it means that other features are MORE important to Riot.
And I didn't say it isn't profitable. There are a lot of things that can make it not worth doing something. If other features are going to make the game more enjoyable, and they can be done with far less work then it is probably worth doing those.
How about you try looking at it from a perspective outside of money since Riot has clearly shown they are willing to make the playerbase happy even at a detriment to their income.
Sraeg20131 votesDeath recap ALREADY EXISTS.
All they need to do is fix it and maintain it.
Yes, they fixed it like a year ago and it worked for 2-3 patches and then it broke again because they tried to "improve" it aaaaand haven't fixed it yet.
Fondling Gems1 votesI think you missed the part where they said they would have to rebuild it from scratch, so for the purposes of fixing it it might as well not exist.
Sraeg20131 votesI think you missed the part where they already fixed Death Recap which was working until they decided to fuck it up and let bugs to pile up after.
Fondling Gems1 votesI think you missed the part where it was never really fixed and regardless of if they had fixed it they would still need to rebuild it due to how they made it the first time around.
The death recap system only works if it knows every ability in League because it was set up very poorly which means it has trouble tracking damage back through the game. This means that every update, new champion, number change, etc. would involve people going back into the recap system and programming it in, which is a lot of work.
There were explanations that the continual maintenance was too great and it would be better to leave it broken until they could get around to rebuilding it properly. As a programmer I can say that it doesn't sound far fetched in the slightest, badly built systems tend to be very inflexible to change and as such it is often better to put them off until the time and resources can be dedicated to them and have the system be fully rebuilt.
ShadowParker2 votesIt does take time to make stuff though. You do have to take into consideration the things they've done.
RacoonHunter1 votesblizzard has a better log.. why don't htey just steal that. I mean, they already stole ghostcrawler from blizzard XD
Decrit1 votesbecause hots is much a simpler game, and a more recent one too
Anidan2 votesOn the other hand, DotA is undeniably more complicated than League and also has a functioning death recap, so Riot is the odd man out, here.
Decrit1 votesDotA is absolutely not undeniabily more complicated than league, at all. They have too damage splitted in different ways with mechanics similar to LoL, or at least they are on a similar degree ( to give context HotS has not damage resistance like armor or mres, or damage penetration, or different kinds of damage unless stated by some trait, only percentages given by spells and such). The reason why the death recap of DotA is better ( because it is ) it's mostly because the client is newer compared to LoL and had an overall better fundation, and because most abilities on dota are simpler on the aspect of damage calculation because most of them for example have flat damage or at least they had for a long time. Also valve basically had to do half game, because most concepts, mechanics and piece of gameplay were already se tin stone so kickstarting the game, while not trivial, allowed them to focus more on the coding part of the game. And this is fine, it's nothing to be ashamed of! Better to them!
Anidan1 votesIf we're being honest, I wouldn't even hesitate in saying that League should probably take some time in the future and retool the entire game client. Not the lobby client like they did recently, but the game's client itself. Not necessarily bump it up so people can't play, but clean it up. The spaghetti code in League's client is intense. It was understandable when they were a new start-up and had so little money that Adobe Air seemed like a good idea, but I think it should be done at some point. It would help not only Death Recap maintenance, but also prevent really strange "minion" interactions in the future, and possibly things like the Xerath bug that cropped up not too long ago.
It's a massive undertaking, I know, but I think it's something Riot should do at some point.
Decrit1 votesPoint is that they are already doing it, piece by piece, patch by patch. They stated that a while ago and you can actually see it in work with little stuff like the Cassiopeia tail movement they added a while ago.
The only true pain problem that is evident here is the death log. Probably a more robust infrastructure at the beginning could have eased it by a lot, but probably that's also not a problem where you simply throw money at it, or at least not in a financially reasonable way.
Probably Valve was just more smart at doing it for DotA specifically, but i doubt it's a personnel problem since many people that work at riot come from valve too and they shift employees around.
Hella Kaiser6 votesbecause hots is made by competent people
