As a support main, I'd be happy if Redemption and Locket got nerfed if...

Clementine·Mar 28, 2017·96 votes·5,069 views

...almost all the other support items weren't absolutely fucking useless

is hardly even an item anymore, haven't seen anyone build it in months. such a cool idea that doesn't work. Doesn't remove all CC like a qss does, longer cooldown, and whoever you're using it on is probably about to get stunned again anyway. The changes to it made it so much worse. has no purpose at all anymore. haven't seen anyone build this in a year, what's the purpose? haven't seen it since it was originally released. 1550 gold for a small speed buff, no reason to buy ever. has never come in handy for anyone, ever (thanks for reminding me Nami!)

That's all supports have are Locket and Redemption. The items are worth more than the champion, which is so sad

144 Comments

Deep Terror NamiMar 28, 201752 votes

Ohmwrecker is so bad you forgot to call it bad.

Evêñtfûl HôrïzôñMar 28, 201718 votes

It's hard to tell that Ohm is even a support item, since nobody buys it.

Ark SorcererMar 28, 20176 votes

It is a support Item?

The only time I even considered it was when I was playing a champ that can dive to the enemy team under their tower and make chaos happen-- say Gnar and his ult.

I thought it was a tank/fighter diver item.

IcyPepperMar 28, 20172 votes

I think there's supposed to be a bit of overlap, tank/fighter diver item as well as a tank/support ally-diver item. Unfortunately, it seems neither buy it all that much?

Ark SorcererMar 28, 20176 votes

It is a forgotten item so.... Unless Riot makes Turrets great again, I guess we will never know.

Sugar MommaMar 28, 20172 votes

Turrets were never "great" - you just got better.

FaustavianMar 28, 20172 votes

There was a point in time a level 4 Fizz wouldn't even think of towerdiving me. Now they just go balls to the wall on it

Evêñtfûl HôrïzôñMar 28, 20171 votes

I don't even know. I always thought it was a tank item too, since it gives HP and AR and HP5.... It's useless now though, since turrets are too weak for it to be needed.

Ark SorcererMar 28, 20171 votes

Was it ever used before turrets became butter? I mean really? Tower dive, tank 2 shots, activate it, then get hit again with the reset damage back to first damage.

Evêñtfûl HôrïzôñMar 28, 20171 votes

Oh, I don't know. I joined in season 4 but didn't have internet until season 5. ;n; Turrets have been butter for a while. You're right about the reset though, but aside from that--and the stats--Ohm is useless.

Ark SorcererMar 28, 20172 votes

Maybe we should argue that Turrets are too weak and Riot should buff them. It then takes months before some, anyone, finds this item, uses it, and sees how awesome it is and it becomes a standard meta pick. But turrets need to be strong.

Forgotten item is forgotten.

Maybe three shots if you are tanky enough.

Evêñtfûl HôrïzôñMar 28, 20172 votes

Agreed. I've seen a lot of posts about how weak turrets are and what can be done to buff them, but Riot only nerfs them. Just like my poor Shen. Shen item 3070

...What item are we talking about again?

yee, I'm honestly sick of Divers and less-tanky champions taking maybe 100 damage each shot... :P I actually did a test in a custom game...built full tank Kerma and the game ended before I died. I don't know exactly how long it was, though.

boo910Mar 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ark Sorcerer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YiyOfP5h,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-28T05:25:17.877+0000)

Maybe we should argue that Turrets are too weak and Riot should buff them. It then takes months before some, anyone, finds this item, uses it, and sees how awesome it is and it becomes a standard meta pick. But turrets need to be strong.

Forgotten item is forgotten.

Maybe three shots if you are tanky enough.

issue is, divers need to be able to dive turrets,

so they will get either more burst or sustain

that would be problematic

Ark SorcererMar 29, 20172 votes

There is a difference between team divers and tower divers. Diana dives in, assassins dive in. Tanks initiate team fights and thus should be tanking the tower shot-- diving the tower. Two difference things.

MhihnjMar 29, 20171 votes

wtf is an ohmwrecker?

Evêñtfûl HôrïzôñMar 29, 20171 votes

shrugs

OverpoweredSoapMar 28, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YiyOfP5h,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-03-28T03:59:22.812+0000)

Ohmwrecker is so bad you forgot to call it bad.

Ohm-who?

Sagan ForeverMar 28, 201723 votes

Knights vow is insanely overpowered for ta cost. I literally biuld it on any tank champion I play. Giving damage reduction to one of my carries, and getting healing from there damage is crazy good when ahead. I think it is ignored, becuase locket and redemption are even stronger I guess, but do not insult item 3109 , love that item.

MhihnjMar 29, 20172 votes

Does knight's vow stack with itself? Suppose I have 4 people on my team having knights vow and all of them use it on the adc kog?

TheDelightedMar 29, 20171 votes

II buy it as well when I play tanks, but I never take it as a core item. It's really cool but I dunno, other items outshine it greatly.

NeclordMar 28, 201715 votes

I never understood why they reworked Banner's stats. It's such a weird item now.

TotalJerkMar 28, 201715 votes

Because who ever made that change apparently forgot item 3512 already exists.

ModAcademy KaynMar 29, 20172 votes

Except Zz'rots was changed later into a Siege Engine, while Banner is now for pushing out Lanes.

SilverjustMar 29, 20171 votes

Yes But I think riot should change this items to fit their niche better

WestwardZephyrMar 28, 20177 votes

It's such a poorly designed item now lol. It creates minions that are great against magic damage, so you would think it would be a counter to AP, but it gives twice as much armor as mr. Not really sure what they were thinking with that.

Sire HippingtonMar 28, 20179 votes

item 3060 Is a good item, i've seen it even in proplay a few times recently. Wouldn't mind some changes to it though, currently it's to similar to Zz'rot, both from it's active and the stats. It also has some room of improvment for the minion buff. Currently you always use it on a siege minion, it would be nice if there was a bigger difference between buffing melee, ranged or sieged creeps.

item 3174 Yea, ever since they lowered the manareg it's pretty bad. Befor that i like it on manahungry suportive champs. item 3050 It's not really weak, but imo a stupid design, it makes you litterally your ADCs bitch and has a somewhat arbitrary procing effect that grants an window of absurd power. when it works it's insane, but it's not really reliable. item 3109 Certainly not weak and gets used in proplay, but shares some issues with Zeke's - It ties you way to closely to your adc and is pretty usless whenever your not close to him. If it would atleast grant the full armor at all times and therefor give only 10% damage reduction and lifesteal, it would be more usable. item 3069 It's actually quite underated and strong since the last buff. the main issue is that the coin items befor that last upgrade are pretty weak compared to the other gp/10 and the laneingphase is quite important right now.

Most of those items are pretty good actually, the main reason you don#t see them is that locket and redemption are mandatory, aswell as a gp/10 item and sightstone, so you only see any other support item in long games that allow supports to get a 5th item. It's also one of the reasons for Talisman beeing not used often(I've hardly seen frostqueen's aswell, eye of the watche is nearly always the better option), As most of the time you want locket+redemption asap, so you combine gp10 and sightstone into one of the eye items.

XonraMar 29, 20172 votes

isn't really that good in solo queue, especially when most teams are so AD heavy, so the active goes to waste unless you are already ahead, in which case, why bother not just getting ZZ'Rot?
I think people feel it is weak because it has turned so damn niche now. I loved it before, but now it feels like "If I'm not Ivern, why am I buying this over something else?"
This feels like such a wasted item, that COULD have been good, but feels like a relic of old adc itemization before the adc rework, and I don't see the point of ever buying it anymore.
This item is good and all, and yeah pros buy it, buy pro play isn't solo queue, and buying it in solo queue is kind of lame unless you are queuing with the person you stuck it on. Otherwise it feels meh outside of just stats, as you will most likely die or it will not be used as the person you put it on will die before it matters.
Only one I really head scratch about no one getting. Everyone just wants for the ghosts and AP. I'd much rather have . Slow two people down, or speed up my entire team?

SociopathFriendMar 29, 20171 votes

isn't really that good in solo queue, especially when most teams are so AD heavy, so the active goes to waste unless you are already ahead, in which case, why bother not just getting ZZ'Rot?

Because Zz'Rot requires you to actually walk near the enemy tower to push it which opens up the possibility of being attacked- banner lets you start a push from in your base. Because waveclear is typically an AP champion, who will struggle against a banner creep but have little issue in clearing a ZZ'Rot. And because banner with correct planning can have 2 banner minions in one wave pushing towards an enemy while zz'rot would just be able to move the portal.

SilverjustMar 29, 20171 votes

waveclear is typically an AP champion

And what if it is not the case? => Item useless

option paralysisMar 28, 20178 votes

yeah, it's so boring man, I main support this season and all I fucking buy is redemption and locket and then the game is over or you get ardent and then it's over. there's no choices in supports build whatsoever anymore.

TotalJerkMar 28, 20178 votes

item 3060 Needs to get its AP back. It's basically a shitty item 3512 , now. item 3222 Is basically only good for pro play. It requires too much coordination to efficiently use in soloQ item 3174 Needs to build out of item 3114 item 3050 was killed by the marksman update giving most ADC builds more than 50% crit. item 3109 is statistically okay since the recent buffs, but it effectively punishes you super hard for having bad teammates. Often instead of saving anyone, the active/passive gets both of us killed. item 3069 Is good. I don't understand why it's on the list. item 3056 's active is pointless because turrets suck anyway and you might as well buy armor and tank them for the same effect.

DryditchMar 28, 20171 votes

Just a note: item 3050 is better for binding to mages than to your ADC. +20% AP stacks with Rabadon's.

SwiftKitten88Mar 28, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Just a note: is better for binding to mages than to your ADC. +20% AP stacks with Rabadon's.

yeah and it give then 50% crit which they wont ever get normally... except it STILL has the issue its IMPOSSIBLE to use because the range s absolutely minuscule and the stacks instantly drop to zero every time you leave range.. and it instantly activates the moment you reach 100 whether its good timing or not

NymzoMar 28, 20176 votes

The problem is that if they actually nerf item 3107 and item 3190 , we gonna be in big trouble because one, as you mentionned, all the other utility items aside from Ardent suck ass and these 2 items are our only saving grace against mage ''supports''.

Linna ExcelMar 28, 20175 votes

What about item 3116 ?

Ark SorcererMar 28, 20173 votes

A nerfed mage item? Not a support so...

Linna ExcelMar 28, 20176 votes

Well, it's within a support's price range, it gives hp, AP, and CC, and I don't think midlaners are getting it anymore.

Ark SorcererMar 28, 20173 votes

They do... it lost all its viability they do.

XmortoxXMar 28, 20175 votes

I remember when Athenes was the go to item for a lot of mid laners.

Now the only champion i see it built on is Ivern, and i'm the one playing Ivern in almost all my matches.

58697132DEL1Mar 28, 20175 votes

Another support item thread, another chance to say it.

Make sightstones evolve like jungle items. Make them reflect a choice in how you support and change based on damage (peel) done, healing/shielding done, and damage received. Eventually they evolve from just "sightstone" into items that places wards, charges every minute (so supports CAN GRAB A DAMN SWEEPER LENS!!!!!) and then they ALSO offer more damage, more tanking, or more healing.

Make the item supports NEED to rush a core part of their identity and builds can follow suit! (but yeah a lot of "support" items are trash even playing a support i just build all tank or all damage lol. with redemption ofc)

TricolorStarMar 28, 20174 votes

It's not that they're useless, it's that they're so niche they have practically no chance to get built.

Knight's Vow is amazing, but only on high-engage/disengage champs that don't really need a lot of resistances, Zeke's is only really good if you get it on a dual mage/tank support in conjunction with Knight's Vow (and how many of those exist? Come on.).

Ohmwrecker is only good on Taric, Bard, and maybe Kindred if you're having that kind of game (i.e the deathstalling champions)

Talisman on Ascension is actually useless, though. Banner of Command only works in pushers like Heimer, so it's also super niche.

Ugh.

Jeddy017Mar 28, 20173 votes

I get Knight's Vow all the time when playing tanky supports. Personally, I wish it gave some CDR. I would gladly trade any of it's stats for some CDR.

SzGamer227Mar 28, 20173 votes

I really want to see Zeke's Harbinger reworked to be an AP support's Knight's Vow. It would really thrive in the Mage support meta if it weren't so counterintuitive and didn't give the adc a redundant lategame stat.

Knight's Vow is still a somewhat common item for Tank/Vanguard supports, so when the Vanguard update comes out it might see a revival if the update covers enough support champs, or if any of them come out being strong.

Right now almost every support just takes item 3190 item 3107 item 2045 because they're so generally useful and synergize with eachother so well. Supports like Braum and Leona are buying Redemption despite healing not being a core part of their kit. Knight's Vow would be a really good buy for Leona and Braum because it synergizes with their core strengths, but the Locket-Redemption-Sightstone synergy is too strong to pass up.

Hinagiku33Mar 29, 20174 votes

There's also the fact that Supports are forced to start item 3301 / item 3302 / item 3303 and pay even more gold to upgrade them just to have enough gold to function, and then forced to buy item 2049 or else they're "trolling" because Support is still the only role that can really contribute to vision, plus item 3117 / item 3158 .

That's a lot of gold and more importantly a lot of TIME because Support has the lowest income in the game despite having the most required items to buy.

I'm lucky if I can even finish both item 3107 and item 3190 before the game ends. It's usually one or the other. It'd pretty damn hard to even consider other items in those conditions.

SwiftKitten88Mar 28, 20172 votes

item 3174 would be useful if it didn't ONLY affect allies item 3050 would be useful if it didnt completely lose all the stacks u went out of range and instead just stopped stacking or very slowly decayed (which is a half screen range btw... its absolutely minuscule

item 3109 i do think is fine item 3504 is fine item 3190 just flat out was reworked TERRIBLY, and needs to be redone properly item 3107 would be fine if you increase the price by 1000 gold.. but its WAY too freaking cheap for that active

DIL206Mar 28, 201712 votes

increase it by 1000 gold? We are talking supports here. Do you know how much of a difference 1000 gold more would make?

That could potentially stall the item by 6 or 7 minutes, and every item after that. Supports would go from 3 items by the time the game ends to 2 and a half lol. That's a terrible idea.

yoshi2790Mar 28, 20172 votes

{quoted}

would be useful if it didn't ONLY affect allies

Honestly they should make the harmony bonus an active, you can choose which ally gets the health regen, because its pretty useless for you unless you're Soraka , but she buys other items.

would be useful if it didnt completely lose all the stacks u went out of range and instead just stopped stacking or very slowly decayed (which is a half screen range btw... its absolutely minuscule

The bonus is also 'meh' 50% crit? With triple crit its useless and 20% AP only works if the items actives right before a mage uses her combo.

i do think is fine

is fine

Could use a very small nerf

just flat out was reworked TERRIBLY, and needs to be redone properly

True.

would be fine if you increase the price by 1000 gold.. but its WAY too freaking cheap for that active

OR just remove the damage it deals.

Bouncemaster ZacMar 29, 20172 votes

I've bought item 3109 most games where I'm a tank support. The issue is tank supports that aren't Blitzcrank aren't viable.

Viral VerminMar 29, 20171 votes

I like playing in the Support role. That's where I started with League. I'm not sure I understand what this post is about. Support is so dynamic and interesting now. Gold items, vision responsibility on the whole team, unique actives, situational offense/defense support items, and masteries make being a support different in almost every game. The items listed are all items I've bought this week. The itemization for supports is varied and offer unique benefits that provide utility, mitigate damage, and choices based on the game. If my ADC isn't winning, and we're starting to struggle, some of the items above help the champion on my team that is winning. When I get out of lane, win or loss, I have a game plan of who needs me to keep them alive and who needs to farm. If I lose my lane and my ADC needs to farm without an outer turret, then defensive vision, peel, and passive defense items are excellent. That situation is common for bot laners, and would enjoy the benefit of warding their jungle and then using that move speed active to get to them quickly. If I'm mid lane with my team, and my ADC is bot about to meet 2 enemies; Frost Queen's won't help me or him. However! If I'm against a melee support with CC, Braum/Leona/Thresh, then Crucible will help keep CC off of my ADC in lane. When laning is over, and I'm sprinting through the jungle with my Ancient Coin active, (Hopefully with other members of my team), the rotation is faster and my initiator for the fight has a great chance to win. If Renekton, Riven, Darius, Jax, or any other melee/top laner/tank initiator starts the fight, they don't have to worry about the first round of CC, because I can remove it and keep my front lane capable of zoning the other team. If the rotation doesn't end behind the enemy and I have to walk to my ADC who is stuck at the tower, I need to cast my abilities and actives quickly if he is hurt. By keeping vision for a safe path to rotate between lanes, itemizing from behind and for your ADC's weaknesses, and focusing on defense because you lost the lane, you have many options to do it based on the Champions in the game. I've only bought Ohm Wrecker a few times, but only when I'm Jungling. Banner of Command isn't really a support item. Zz'Rot portal and Banner of Command are great items for top laners that roam and want to leave lane often. Those two items keep the wave in a generally specific area, and ensure that while you're roaming to help your team, the enemy top laner isn't pushing your inhibitor turret. This has been a very long message. I'm sorry. There are countless other ways to itemize for every varying condition. If you are a support that has those frustrating games where your team isn't helping to ward, your ADC has never heard of last hitting, and sometimes you lose lane so hard you want to rage quit, the reason might be because you aren't utilizing all the tools you have. Not every support champion needs locket and redemption, especially when you're trying to support in multiple ways. Roaming mid or going into the enemy jungle to ward with your own Jungler and positioning in team fights, should never look the same in every game. Try these items after you ask yourself, "What can I do for my team to give us the upper hand? How can I impact the strongest and weakest member of my team? Do I need to worry about a fed enemy champion, and if so, what item helps reduce their impact and snowballing potential? I'm just going to say Good Luck and leave you with this note: If you play this game, so that you are building the same three items in the Support Role and never use any of the ones you listed, then you are making this game harder than it is and you're not doing your job to the best of your ability for your team. The support role is more dynamic and I believe it is in the best shape of all time. I hope you pick up some of these items to give them a chance, because if you don't, I will, and I will beat you! :) Good Luck!

Dominick DestineMar 29, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Viral Vermin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YiyOfP5h,comment-id=003a,timestamp=2017-03-29T04:04:08.622+0000)

I like playing in the Support role. That's where I started with League. I'm not sure I understand what this post is about. Support is so dynamic and interesting now. Gold items, vision responsibility on the whole team, unique actives, situational offense/defense support items, and masteries make being a support different in almost every game. The items listed are all items I've bought this week. The itemization for supports is varied and offer unique benefits that provide utility, mitigate damage, and choices based on the game. If my ADC isn't winning, and we're starting to struggle, some of the items above help the champion on my team that is winning. When I get out of lane, win or loss, I have a game plan of who needs me to keep them alive and who needs to farm. If I lose my lane and my ADC needs to farm without an outer turret, then defensive vision, peel, and passive defense items are excellent. That situation is common for bot laners, and would enjoy the benefit of warding their jungle and then using that move speed active to get to them quickly. If I'm mid lane with my team, and my ADC is bot about to meet 2 enemies; Frost Queen's won't help me or him. However! If I'm against a melee support with CC, Braum/Leona/Thresh, then Crucible will help keep CC off of my ADC in lane. When laning is over, and I'm sprinting through the jungle with my Ancient Coin active, (Hopefully with other members of my team), the rotation is faster and my initiator for the fight has a great chance to win. If Renekton, Riven, Darius, Jax, or any other melee/top laner/tank initiator starts the fight, they don't have to worry about the first round of CC, because I can remove it and keep my front lane capable of zoning the other team. If the rotation doesn't end behind the enemy and I have to walk to my ADC who is stuck at the tower, I need to cast my abilities and actives quickly if he is hurt. By keeping vision for a safe path to rotate between lanes, itemizing from behind and for your ADC's weaknesses, and focusing on defense because you lost the lane, you have many options to do it based on the Champions in the game. I've only bought Ohm Wrecker a few times, but only when I'm Jungling. Banner of Command isn't really a support item. Zz'Rot portal and Banner of Command are great items for top laners that roam and want to leave lane often. Those two items keep the wave in a generally specific area, and ensure that while you're roaming to help your team, the enemy top laner isn't pushing your inhibitor turret. This has been a very long message. I'm sorry. There are countless other ways to itemize for every varying condition. If you are a support that has those frustrating games where your team isn't helping to ward, your ADC has never heard of last hitting, and sometimes you lose lane so hard you want to rage quit, the reason might be because you aren't utilizing all the tools you have. Not every support champion needs locket and redemption, especially when you're trying to support in multiple ways. Roaming mid or going into the enemy jungle to ward with your own Jungler and positioning in team fights, should never look the same in every game. Try these items after you ask yourself, "What can I do for my team to give us the upper hand? How can I impact the strongest and weakest member of my team? Do I need to worry about a fed enemy champion, and if so, what item helps reduce their impact and snowballing potential? I'm just going to say Good Luck and leave you with this note: If you play this game, so that you are building the same three items in the Support Role and never use any of the ones you listed, then you are making this game harder than it is and you're not doing your job to the best of your ability for your team. The support role is more dynamic and I believe it is in the best shape of all time. I hope you pick up some of these items to give them a chance, because if you don't, I will, and I will beat you! :) Good Luck!

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