Passive: Annie's 4th spell will mark the champion instead of stunning right away, after 1.5s Annie can cast another spell to pop the mark and stun them.
Ult: Annie must do a 2s summoning channel, highlighting the area tibbers will appear to warn the opponents.
Packun Flower5 votesAnnie already got a rework that not only nerfed her pretty hard but also left her with several bugs.
Penns6 votesAnd after the rework her win rate spiked up and its still at 53-54 for months now. She also got a small direct nerf in 6.17 and after that her mid lane win rate... still increased, every patch.
Marshbouy5 voteswas gonna upvote until i read
Ult: Annie must do a 2s summoning channel, highlighting the area tibbers will appear to warn the opponents.
now you just want to gut a champion and make them something completely different.
Seenan5 votesGood thing Riot doesn't really listen to Gameplay for changes...
TequilaZombie4 votesDon't forget about taking 50% of Tibbers cast damage and compensate with a small missing health damage. Tibbers should be used as a tool to finish off enemies, not to actually do damage.
As you can obviously tell, I'm still butthurt with Shaco changes.
AirKingNeo4 votesOh god, the "Annie is OP" circlejerk. Comeon, they already nerfed her in the mage update. She's not that strong.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo4 votesher passive have to be charged by using abilities (4 of them) to get the stun up and then she still has to use a 5 ability to use the passive therefore giving her stun/passive a cooldown based off how often she can use the cooldowns of her other abilities and if she is spamming abilities she needs mana to do so... there for her passive has a mana cost
so indirectly her stun passive has a cd and a mana cost
The Deckowner4 votesIf this was to come true I BET YOU facing Annie will only become more painful, because her number and damage will probably need to be increased by half if not double to compensate this bs.
Vistha Kai3 votesFinally you made a semi-reasonable thread.
Congratulations.
48983507DEL13 votesWhat is with all the Annie hate? Just because no one understands how to play around her weaknesses doesn't mean she deserves all these irrational changes.
Serika Zero5 votesthe thing is: assassins are getting nerfed to be less bursty and give the enemy "time to react". So, people are complaining about burst mages that can kill and burst you down with little to no counterplay available. And how assassins, a class that generally in every other (not riot made) game are a class focused on dmg burst sacrificing safety, are now losing that burst. So, riot's rework challenges the notion of assassin in games by itself, they challenge the concept of an assassin and try to replace it with their own. "An assassin is someone who can get into fights easy, fight and eventually kill the target, and then escape with ease".
Meanwhile: burst mages have the safety of range, easy laning phase and can burst people down faster than assassins. Annie is one of the stereotype burst mage of LoL even tho her burst was lowered as well during the mage rework. Her R is instant cast and her Q is targeted and unavoidable ranged poke/stun. But, because in most people's minds, Annie is a burst champion, she is one of the ones complained about. The other one would be Syndra's R = dead.
Daddy Gangplank2 votesBut it's true. At lvl 6 she's getting a kill with a stacked passive r q w ignite and IF REALLY NEEDED another Q. And I'm not trying to complain about Annie here,I played her a few times in ranked when I got mid instead of jungle and can confirm that her burst is very strong and unavoidable.
Serika Zero1 votesI'm explaining why people are complaining about Annie. That's it.
I'm honestly like: rito you are retards and you can't make assassins be what you want them to be, just like you can't change a tomato into a potato just because you want it to be a potato while keep calling it a tomato
But her burst is lower than before. As more damage was put into her Tibbers doing damage after he was summoned (like when she dies). Can she still one shot you from 100 to 0 with you having no hopes of survival. Probably not. Can she one shot you after she throws 2 targeted, point and click Qs in lane? HELL YEH
Seenan1 votesBut it's true. At lvl 6 she's getting a kill with a stacked passive r q w ignite and IF REALLY NEEDED another Q. And I'm not trying to complain about Annie here,I played her a few times in ranked when I got mid instead of jungle and can confirm that her burst is very strong and unavoidable.
Not without backing for an item at least. Or weakening them by about ~30% of their hp.
48983507DEL11 votesThe thing about Annie in comparison to every assassin is she isn't very safe at all. She's very easy to catch out and zone, meaning to use her effectively, you have to play around the small opportunities you get to close a gap without an actual gapcloser.
She has no escapes, she has a short range, and her kit is extremely predictable. In fact, quite a few assassins have abilities in their kits that outrange ALL of Annie's abilities. These include Talon, Zed, Leblanc, Katarina, and Kha'Zix. All of these champions are also highly mobile, meaning they'll have an easier time accomplishing their job of quickly bursting a target since they have ways to compensate for their close range.
Finally, I just wanted to point out that ever since Annie's rework, her ultimate is no longer "instant cast". By this, I mean that you're no longer instantaneously stunned when Summon: Tibbers is used on the area you're standing in, like it was before her update. Now, there is a small window of opportunity to Flash/Dash/Blink away from the cast location while Annie is going through the animation. This makes it far less reliable at any elo above Silver, especially against the likes of Ezreal and Leblanc.
zaire901 votes[{quoted}](name=Zethera Densetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ksTk6jdN,comment-id=000400000001,timestamp=2016-10-26T17:36:29.733+0000)
The thing about Annie in comparison to every assassin is she isn't very safe at all. She's very easy to catch out and zone, meaning to use her effectively, you have to play around the small opportunities you get to close a gap without an actual gapcloser.
She has no escapes, she has a short range, and her kit is extremely predictable. In fact, quite a few assassins have abilities in their kits that outrange ALL of Annie's abilities. These include Talon, Zed, Leblanc, Katarina, and Kha'Zix. All of these champions are also highly mobile, meaning they'll have an easier time accomplishing their job of quickly bursting a target since they have ways to compensate for their close range.
Finally, I just wanted to point out that ever since Annie's rework, her ultimate is no longer "instant cast". By this, I mean that you're no longer instantaneously stunned when Summon: Tibbers is used on the area you're standing in, like it was before her update. Now, there is a small window of opportunity to Flash/Dash/Blink away from the cast location while Annie is going through the animation. This makes it far less reliable at any elo above Silver, especially against the likes of Ezreal and Leblanc.
annie still messes up kat, talon, and kha because to get their damage off they still have to get within stun range and most annies ive seen rush a RoA and know they can easily zone out those 3 with her stun that stays up indefinitely
48983507DEL13 votesActually no, Katarina can lane decently against Annie by just spamming her Q. It outranges all of Annie's skills, and if anything goes wrong she can just shunpo to a ward under her turret.
Talon can do basically the same thing by poking with Rake, as it outranges all of Annie's abilities. Also, whenever Annie doesn't have her stun, Talon can usually win a trade if he knows how to attack-move. Annie essentially has to last hit with her auto-attacks for the majority of the laning phase because as soon as her stun is down, Talon can easily kill her, especially post 6.
Finally, Kha'Zix? He's a jungler. He can get fed elsewhere and 1 shot Annie before she even has time to react. Or, like a good assassin, he can wait until she's low in a team fight to jump in and finish her off.
zaire901 votes[{quoted}](name=Zethera Densetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ksTk6jdN,comment-id=00040000000100000000,timestamp=2016-10-26T23:29:51.622+0000)
Actually no, Katarina can lane decently against Annie by just spamming her Q. It outranges all of Annie's skills, and if anything goes wrong she can just shunpo to a ward under her turret.
Talon can do basically the same thing by poking with Rake, as it outranges all of Annie's abilities. Also, whenever Annie doesn't have her stun, Talon can usually win a trade if he knows how to attack-move. Annie essentially has to last hit with her auto-attacks for the majority of the laning phase because as soon as her stun is down, Talon can easily kill her, especially post 6.
Finally, Kha'Zix? He's a jungler. He can get fed elsewhere and 1 shot Annie before she even has time to react. Or, like a good assassin, he can wait until she's low in a team fight to jump in and finish her off.
only reason i threw kha in there is because u added him on ur list and i agree with that one ,but for the one with talon i dont really agree because most of the times annie saves her stun for when u decide to go in and his rake eats up alot of mana so u cant really spam that and for kat her q u cant just keep throwing it at annie or else ur going to be missing out on farm or she can just stand away from the minion wave to make u choose between farming with her q thats up every 8 secs i think or poking.
48983507DEL12 votesYou missed when I said that saving her stun means she has to last hit with just her autos. Have you ever tried to do that with Annie? She has by far the worst auto attack animation in the game. The second she Qs a minion, Talon will get a free trade.
Rake may eat up a lot of mana, but it only takes 2 or 3 before she's low enough to be killed with 1 combo. And after a first back, it really doesn't matter much any more.
Katarina can last hit with her Q and poke at the same time because of the way it bounces. It's a difficult lane, but it's nothing incredibly difficult. After about 2-3 Q pokes, Kat can combo Annie and kill her faster than Annie can kill her, due to the reduced damage from Shunpo.
Need Gold 4 Tent1 votesThat's what his silence used to be for. RIP
Chalizard1 votesMaybe because she has none? Maybe because she is in top 15. Win rates from the very beginnig of this game? Maybe because No matter of meta her pick rate and win rate are always high or at least above average? Maybe because of Point and click aoe stun, no skill shots, mana refound, high burst damage, long range, crazy bear with sunfire cape being able to kill you 1vs1 after you kill Annie? Maybe because of her high base damage so she can buy tanky items still killing you with her combo? Maybe because her early, mid and late game are all op? Maybe because of almost 0 mana usage and one of the lowest cd on spells mostly impossible to dodge dealing crazy amount of damage while still being able to stun you? I guess one of those might be the reason. Im not telling she is noobish or op but she is both.
48983507DEL13 votesSo just leave out the fact that she's low range, low mobility, very predictable, and not very versatile, all of which are substantial weaknesses that are easy to exploit if you know how.
Chalizard1 votesShe has good range and even if playing against champions like Ziggs you can always Flash and ult, she is predictable, you see her, you die, very easy to predict, her only weaknes is that she is not very mobile so her only weaknes is picking someone like xerath which is still Not Perfect counter as you can just buy swiftnes. I will not even comment that "she is not versatile" as she is great support and great midder in any team comp always giving your team hard Aoe Cc and crazy damage so I guess we are not talking about the same champion.
48983507DEL12 votesWell no, she doesn't have good range at all. A good Ziggs, Xerath, Oriana, Syndra, Lux, Brand, etc. can easily zone/poke her without effort.
So no one else can Flash? It's just Annie? You can't complain about her using Flash-Ult whenever 90% of the champions use the same Summoner Spell.
The point of her being predictable is that you can guess what she's going to do and play against it. If you see her, back away and hit her with your longer ranged spells. If she Flashes, you Flash.
She's not very versatile because no matter what she builds, no matter what role she's put in, she is only going to do 1 thing: Tibbers + W + Q. That's all she can do. Other champions like Syndra, Ryze, Brand, etc. have multiple different things they can do with their abilities to make them useful and adaptable to multiple situations.
All of this being said, you really should learn how to play around her instead of complaining that she's overpowered. Newsflash: she isn't. You're just refusing to improve at playing against her.
Chalizard1 votesHer ult is instant so if she flashes to you with it there is almost no chance for you to survive because even if you somehow Flash out you will get stun. She is too easy for what she offers and considering her win rate and pick rate in every meta she is op.
Her only counter play is to be long ranged mage and even that can't make you sure she will not kill you.
I guess see you are playing her so You will defend this champ and blindly say that she is fine but Newsflash: she isn't. You are Not good with her you just play champion with which bot could get diamond but I guess you are soo good that you achived Gold that you think you know better than me.
48983507DEL11 votesFirst of all no, they changed that with her minor update. She now has to fully complete the cast animation for Tibbers to stun you. So that's just flat out wrong.
She's easy because she is a basic champion with a basic job and not to do outside of her cookie-cutter combo. The reason she has a higher-than-average win rate is because she's very difficult to screw up with. Think of all the people who try to play Zed in Ranked, despite barely understanding his kit. Those people bring down his win rate. However, Annie is very easy to understand, meaning there's less room for error, and is more accessible as a champion because of it.
No, her counterplay is good positioning and good use of wards. If you're aware of where she is at all times, you should be able to stay out of her range if you know what you're doing. She can't kill you if she can't close the gap.
And finally, without any other arguments left to offer, you decide to insult my elo. I'm not defending her, I'm explaining to you how you can play against her and why nerfing her would be a mistake. Notice how I never claimed to be a better player than you, I'm just pointing out the fundamental weaknesses of a champion that you don't like.
Also, considering I'm listing off many different facts that you haven't been able to disprove, I don't see how that qualifies as "blindly say(ing) that she is fine". Meanwhile, you've listed off quite a few incorrect statements about how the champion works, making it very difficult to see your argument as anything more than ignorant hatred.
Chalizard1 votesI have mentioned your division because that means something at least imo.
Kog maw had weak sides too, he was immobile, had No sustaine and was weaker in early game, even though he had over 55% win rate with good pick rate and Riot had to change him so fact that champion has disadventages doesn't mean it isn't op.
Annie has weaknesses but her good sides are soo strong that it doesn't matter that much and even in D+ divisions she has nearly 53% win rate where at least in theory people know how to play against champions aspecially ones that are simple and "easy to predict".
You can keep away from her but how do you want to do it during teamfight or when enemy team is trying to take for example baron.
Her changes only made her ult a Little bit less powerful but still without Flash it is nearly impossible to dodge it so unless you pick xerath and somehow got fed you will not be able to kill her without certain death.
I hate her not without a reason and telling you that you main her so you will try to defend her in all possible ways is something obvious for me.
Your division is not only skill but also knowledge so this argument is good and it doesn't matter if it comes looks like I try to offend you or not.
She is op, your arguments prove Nothing and the fact that you are in low elo makes them only worse.
MunchCrunchLunch2 votesI like how they made tibbers do less burst and more sustained. and you still get one shot but if you avoid the clash he chases you and chunks you for 1400 damage if the summon didn't kill you lol
TeemoXNidalee2 votesHow was she nerfed by the mage update?
Before: 1shot you with no counterplay.
Current: Slight less up front damage, but still 1shots with no counterplay. Additionally, if she misses her ult (how?) or you kill her, the bear will ride your ass to death.
48983507DEL14 votesThere is counterplay. A lot of it too. She has very short range, no mobility, is extremely predictable, and you can literally see when she has her stun available. Stay out of her range, poke her, ward and catch her, and buy a Banshee's Veil.
The Deckowner2 votesQWR damage nerfed E aoe damage nerfed Passive now visible by anyone R stun aoe size nerfed
IcyPepper2 votesI'm not sure that will work on Annie, considering assassins have mobility and she doesn't :/
Leo10241 votesi like the mark and maybe a .75 second ult warning because 2 seems too long
Chalizard1 votesShe is not assassin, well she has damage like one but she is also tanky like typical tank and it doesn't make her tank. But honestly I agree with OP.
