Quinn and Valor shouldn't share cooldowns.

1 800 GGTOOEZ·Sep 12, 2015·93 votes·2,870 views

This, and fixing her 500 billion bugs which make release Yorick look like QA actually played him, would be all she needs.

84 Comments

ninjaIRL Sep 12, 201517 votes

While that would be cool, it thematically wouldn't make much sense for most of her abilities.

Her Passive As Quinn: Valor is used. As Valor: Non-existent.

Her Q As Quinn: Uses Valor. As Valor: Uses himself.

Her W As Quinn: Uses Valor. As Valor: Uses himself.

Her E As Quinn: Uses herself, then Valor (passive). As Valor: Uses himself.

Her Ultimate As Quinn: Uses Valor. As Valor: Uses Quinn.

As you can see only E is one that actually doesn't use Valor; this is assuming one regards the auto passive proc as a "separate" ability.

I suggest her E to be the only one that doesn't share CD. This allows her to chase targets especially when they flash or dash right after you Vault on them by activating Tag Team then use a second dash. This buffs her mobility and stickiness... however the real problem of her kit are the bugs on her passive.

Right now the only thing that Quinn does that other ADCs don't do as well in is to be an epic splitpusher. Assuming you actually survive your lane against ADCs like Vayne, Caitlyn, Tristana, who will either displace themselves back or knock you forward, nullifying your Tag Team effectiveness; nullifying half your abilities per se.

Her ultimate also has a terrible base damage. Jinx does better damage with hers on all stages of the game assuming they have the same items. Valor has to be relatively in melee range to actually make it hurt whilst Jinx's is a completely safe global. Quinn should get a better reward than that of Jinx considering the circumstances Valor has to be in to make the Skystrike hurt. Skystrike's only advantage is that it has a small but noticeable bigger radius than that of Super Mega Death Rocket.

gubigubiSep 12, 20158 votes

These points all seem valid.

#Squawk

TwigglesSep 12, 20154 votes

I agree with your post.

GOUGE 'EM!

LeonerdoSep 12, 20151 votes

Well Quinn's ult does a lot more than just damage. It's also impossible to miss. The only thing I would dare to buff about her ult is its cooldown, since it is like twice as long as the average ult. Come to think of it, does anyone have a longer cd on their ult?

ninjaIRL Sep 13, 20151 votes

I'm really talking about Valor's ultimate though. Skystrike. I'm talking about the damage component of Quinn/Valor's ultimate. At rank 3 Karthus' ultimate and Wukong's ultimate have higher cooldowns. If you're talking about the 140 second cooldown at rank 1 then I think that's fair considering that that it gives a lot of movement speed. I'm particularly peeved by how little damage Skystrike does though.

LordGeovanniSep 13, 20151 votes

skystrike isnt meant to be a stand alone and it does alot of damage as it scales with enemies missing health

ninjaIRL Sep 13, 20151 votes

maybe at mid game but during the lane phase the damage output you can deal with Valor's increased attackspeed and Skystrike is incomparable to a same level, same item Jinx, who's meant to hypercarry with her ultimate and general AA damage. Just because it scales with health doesn't automatically make it deal OP damage. Skystrike's general damage early is really low. You have to get the enemy ADC down to below 420 health for Skystrike to deal more than just a couple autoattack's worth of damage.

LordGeovanniSep 13, 20151 votes

it doesnt ahve to be as op if you ult and you ahve the same damage as jinx your q blinds and e interupts the enemy seconds of no damage in your favor and you have your skystrike jinx has skills that have to channel and arm are easily dodge able in valor form and her ult in greatly reduced at point blank range

Black Star 1299Sep 12, 201512 votes

Way too bursty. Her full combo would be absolutely devastating.

Q>Autoattack>E>Autoattack>R>E >Q>Autoattack>R>E>Autoattack>Q. Way too much burst.

SulghunterSep 12, 201528 votes

Annie Fizz Leblanc Riven Zed

NielarkenSep 12, 20159 votes

Diana missed one.

SulghunterSep 12, 20152 votes

I was just going after champs who have burst that can happen in almost an instant, while the whole combo that Black Star listed would take quite some time to pull off, and very hard to pull off right.

For CarthageSep 12, 20153 votes

Difference being none of those go bot and none of those can build ADC and be absolutely devastating.

Dr BirdieSep 12, 201512 votes

Graves

Fear PopoSep 12, 20153 votes

Graves burst would be nothing compared to a quinn + valor that didn't share cds.

MaximumNinja17Sep 13, 20151 votes

Yea but graves doesn't become melee to use his burst. Quinn cant ult in lane because either you get kited by enemy adc ( or cc Ashe Draven Varus Vayne ) or get cc by enemy supp (like every supp should unless there a potato ) whats worse it doesn't even have to be a hard cc ,a snare or even a slow could fuck quinn up when she ults.

Fear PopoSep 13, 20152 votes

Not with these changes. She would literally hit 6 and kill the enemy adc.

Lady HammerlockSep 13, 20151 votes

she already does that ult jump Q auto auto reactivate ult and the enemy adc is dead

Fear PopoSep 13, 20151 votes

So there isn't a need to add about 300 damage to her level 6 combo.

Lady HammerlockSep 14, 20151 votes

ya especially late game she can suicide bomber and flank the enemy from behind kill the enemy adc who can't do much due to her blind and her e is a semi mini-stun sorta thing

Black Star 1299Sep 12, 20153 votes

Ok, I may have missaid that. The burst would actually be really high already, but now she'd be the absolute unduelable adc that cannot be killed by assassins during teamfights. (Unless the enemy team assassin is super fed)

FYI, that's 3 far mobility spells if you use it right. (And not short range dashes, long range with really scary kite potential.)

I see someone mentioned Graves, but graves is all burst and no utility, except for his w. Once his abilities are down, he can't burst anymore. That Quinn full combo does heck of a lot every time, maybe not very bursty, but gives her more dueling potential she ever needed.

That's 4.5 seconds of blindness, 3 dashes that slow and interrupt if pulled off right. And it isn't hard to do so. What, 2 skillshots and rest all point and click or around the champion? Complete nightmare for top laners and ADCs to duel. And even worse, she's a marksmen and would do heck of alot dueling power and assassin potential built as an ADC!

(Quinn main here, I'm not against this buff, but it would honestly hurt the champion so much and I don't want to see her nerfed D:)

SulghunterSep 13, 20151 votes

What of Vayne ?

She can tumble every 2 seconds( in stealth if ulting)
Her condemn is far more effective for kiting, displaces the target(interrupting), point-n-click, and can stun if the target is nailed to a wall.
Can melt ANYONE in less than 5 seconds.
Ranged/markswoman
Is seen in top lane. If this does not meet your criteria of unbearable dueling for a top laning adc, than I will say that sated devourer is not annoying as all of Teemo's domain.

Also a level 5 bird watcher

Silents429Sep 13, 20151 votes

I don't see any ADCs in their.

It's that way for a reason.

LordGeovanniSep 13, 20151 votes

lucain can burst like that

Silents429Sep 13, 20151 votes

Hardly, he has an auto attack reset, not full on burst.

LordGeovanniSep 14, 20151 votes

i havent seen much champions lucain cant burst down considering that he is built well and doesnt fall under heavy cc the tankiest champions ive seen get burst for 40% of their health jsut by 1 round of lucains combo and he can chain that 2-3 times

Daedalus871Sep 12, 20157 votes

They most definitately should share cd's. She already has a shitton of burst, and this would practically double it. Instant broken.

What Quinn needs: A half decent AA. Lot of ways to go on this, from readjusting when the sound plays to making it faster overall. Better Harrier proccing. Half the time, it seems like Valor comes down as my AA hits the target, but it doesn't proc the mark. Better Harrier marking. Often times it seems like Valor just completely marks something completely random.

You do all that, and her win rate probably jumps up 5% and she most likely become on of the top 5 ADC's played.

ninjaIRL Sep 12, 20152 votes

Or rework the passive into something more consistent, considering the role of an ADC, she can't leave noticeable damage like that just on chance. Crits are different because every champion has them.

Daedalus871Sep 12, 20152 votes

I suppose that is another way to go.

Maybe something like every X seconds Quinn's next AA does bonus damage and grants sight for Y seconds. Vault instantly resets it. So essentially keep it the same, but without marking the targets.

LordGeovanniSep 13, 20151 votes

or you could consider them like crits to not be garenteed damage but pleasant bursts when you get them

Kitten of EvilSep 12, 20153 votes

Her auto-attacks are so buggy. i've missed kills before because the Harrier procced during an auto-attack animation (but was then not consumed by that attack)... or Vault has launched me too far from the opponent, or I've started an auto-attack only to have it cancel after the animation has started.

LordGeovanniSep 13, 20151 votes

obviously harrier wouldnt be procced if it is just starting after you already fired an attack because the attack does extra damage because quinn fires multiple arrow bolts at the character if you dont see the multiple bolts that means it wont proc

Kitten of EvilSep 15, 20151 votes

Yes, obviously it doesn't proc currently. Okay, but why is it programmed that way? Why does the attack frame of an Harrier-enhanced AA need to be SO different from a regular one?

It's just part of what makes her clunky. You start to attack an enemy, mid-air they're marked by harrier, and if they aren't completely stupid, they'll walk away even though they still take the non-enhanced attack. I'm all for champions having windows of power, but compare this even to Bard, whose AA enhancements are also periodic. It never feels like I'm "missing out" on a Bard meep hitting an enemy, because if it arrives as I attack, it joins the attack.

LordGeovanniSep 15, 20151 votes

i think: because the theme behind useing the harrier is that when valor scratches the enemy quinn takes the distraction to fire a multitude of shots. lets compare cross bow bolts to cosmic magical spirits who are live and can likely jump on bards already in air attack en route

CreationFlawSep 12, 20156 votes

If you didn't share cooldowns on transformation she'd be broken.

MegamanEXE79Sep 12, 20155 votes

{quoted}

If you didn't share cooldowns on transformation she'd be broken.

Nidalee

Stratego33Sep 13, 20151 votes

Nidalee = Quinn , right?

MegamanEXE79Sep 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

= , right?

I was making the point that they let the "do X and she'd be broken" logic through for someone like Nidalee. I didn't mean to imply equality, my bad.

Kitten of EvilSep 12, 20155 votes

Fix her bugs first. I'd bet once they do that, she'll no longer need any buffs at all.

Rustling BushSep 12, 20152 votes

but all transformations have shared cd.

Kledy McKledFaceSep 12, 201511 votes

lmao nidalee? elise? no way and if you add rek sai they dont share too

Rustling BushSep 12, 20156 votes

{quoted}

lmao nidalee? elise? no way

but but but what about Gnar Shyvana .

GeraldQLSep 12, 20153 votes

To be honest, Shyv's feels more like an ability steroid than a transformation, though Gnar is undisputable.

Big LincolnSep 12, 20152 votes

idk

that'd make her even burstier than she already is

Kledy McKledFaceSep 12, 20155 votes

youre saying that like she was the op assasin of the game while she is one of the worst champion of this game

Big LincolnSep 12, 20154 votes

i mean think about it

she'd basically become to autoattackers what pre-nerf leblanc was to casters when she had her silence. 3 seconds of blind on top of pretty decent mobility and high burst?

she'd need a lot more than just "refresh her CDs when she goes birb mode lol" if we want to push her as a scout-based assassin

OverpoweredSoapSep 12, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=krEb32vq,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-09-12T01:29:51.706+0000)

i mean think about it

she'd basically become to autoattackers what pre-nerf leblanc was to casters when she had her silence. 3 seconds of blind on top of pretty decent mobility and high burst?

she'd need a lot more than just "refresh her CDs when she goes birb mode lol" if we want to push her as a scout-based assassin

Riot could always make it so the blind cooldown is shared and not the rest of the kit.

TyroneWatermelonSep 12, 20152 votes

Also give valor voice over....

DanyojaSep 12, 20152 votes

I think it makes sense though because Quinn and Valor are two separate characters that should have separate cooldowns, but that's from a aesthetic standpoint, don't know about balance, but it seems like a decent change to make also if Quinn could be used in some of Valor's movess or at least work on the same passive.

You can make valor be immune to damage but still have Quinn walking around the ground (vulnerable to), when you attack someone Quinn will attack the same target and proc the passive or something. This is a dumb idea don't get me wrong, but it'd feel cool if Q&V were actually a cohesive group instead of tag team partners who are never in the ring at the same time.

Fear PopoSep 12, 20152 votes

No. It's an awful idea that would completely break her. Her level 6 would basically be an instant kill. She needs her bug fixes, and maybe some way of avoiding/reducing damage taken while in Valor form, and that's it