The Reason Veigar Has So Much Talk On Both Sides of His Changes

Meep Man··8 votes·635 views

On one side:

  • Veigar has an undodgeable, long AoE stun
  • A huge point and click nuke

On the other side:

  • No mobility
  • A nuke (W) that requires on hitting his stun
  • No tank

The end? Rework the guy. High priority rework. When a champion is so unstable that a change can make him useless in some situations and destroy in some situations, he isn't in the right place. The Veigar change responce is exactly what happens when you try and fix an unfixable kit. Veigar players hate them, the community loves them, but Veigar is rendered useless against mobility. Veigar also has a duel identity which is terrible to have. He is both a AP Burst and Anti-AP. Basically he bursts people down. So how do you not make this OP? Delays. The problem? This makes him even more of a situational pick, which shouldnt be what any champion is. If you can only pick your champion in certain situations, something is wrong. Rework the yordle dont try and keep this kit. Do a Soraka and keep his burst identity, but make him entirely revolve around the burst and not make his burst only really burst select champions. Thing to Keep in the Rework;

  • Infinite AP
  • Evil Theme
  • Burst Theme

Change the Master of Evil to burst everyone, not only burst some people but burst them to hell.

9 Comments

Chaotic Reks10 votes

don't let riot rework him. if they rework him, he's going to have 5 passives and 8 dashes with about 20 knockups and will finally be "healthy"

Altricad2 votes

LOL this^

After the fiasco that was cassiopeia( where her full kit is 1 ability), I'm scared to even ask for a re-work now

GigglingAngel1 votes

[{quoted}](name=NyX Reks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=knEKrVAf,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-02-14T01:41:38.095+0000)

don't let riot rework him. if they rework him, he's going to have 5 passives and 8 dashes with about 20 knockups and will finally be "healthy"

Like how they recently-ish reworked Heimerdinger, a fellow mage, and gave him all his new passives, dashes, and knockups? Right? :D

Altricad2 votes

That was a LONG ago, waaay before Top-lane cancerGnar , No-resource-no problem RekSai , and infinite dashes Kalista

GigglingAngel1 votes

{quoted}

That was a LONG ago, waaay before Top-lane cancerGnar , No-resource-no problem RekSai , and infinite dashes Kalista

It was around the time Yasuo came out, though, and he's not exactly immobile. lol

CupcakeTrap1 votes

[{quoted}](name=NyX Reks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=knEKrVAf,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-02-14T01:41:38.095+0000)

don't let riot rework him. if they rework him, he's going to have 5 passives and 8 dashes with about 20 knockups and will finally be "healthy"

This.

I think the current draft changes on PBE are problematic, but I'm very glad that they didn't do a full-on rework. He's got a really interesting kit with a lot of subtle interconnection between abilities and strategic dilemmas underlying their use.

I shudder to think of what a reworked "modern" Veigar would look like. Probably more or less what you say. With some consumable stacking debuffs on enemies and % max health damage thrown in.

Meep Man2 votes

I think it would be really hard to mess up a Veigar rework since as long as the abilities deal burst damage and are dark themed, they work.

A Drowned Fish2 votes

Very good argument, finally the thing I've been looking for to explain this whole mess on the boards. Up vote and a cookie item 2054

Teridax681 votes

Agree! Veigar 's imminent changes don't really feel complete, and I think there's a lot to him (his crappy mana regen passive, his impractically long W delay, the bizarre enemy AP ratio on his ult...) that could be improved. Here's a random kit I had in mind:

  • Passive:
    • No longer gives Veigar mana regeneration.
    • Grants Veigar 1 AP for every enemy he slays, increased to 5 AP against large units (i.e. large minions and monsters) and champion kills and assists (so basically the passive on Baleful Strike).
  • Baleful Strike:
    • Passive and AP gain on unit kill removed.
    • Now a skillshot with 850 range (same as his rework).
    • Mana cost reduced to 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70 from 60 / 65 / 70 / 75 / 80.
    • Stops at the first unit hit, but if it kills the victim, they explode and, after a short delay, release two of the same projectile that fire at the closest enemy units within 400 range. This process can repeat infinitely.
      • Will prioritize units that are spaced apart wide enough for them to be hit by separate projectiles without interfering. If no two units have enough space between them relative to the source, only one projectile will fire.
  • Dark Matter:
    • Landing delay reduced to 0.5 seconds (it's currently a ridiculous 1.25 seconds).
    • Damage reduced to 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 / 200 (+ 50% AP) from 120 / 170 / 220 / 270 / 320 (+ 100% AP).
    • Veigar now stores three charges that recharge on independent 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 / 8-second cooldowns, reduced by cooldown reduction.
    • Has a delay of 1 second in-between consecutive casts that can't be reduced by CDR.
    • Cost changed to 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40 per charge.
  • Event Horizon:
    • Now springs up after a 0.5-second delay.
    • Trap lasts 2 / 2.25 / 2.5 / 2.75 / 3 seconds, down from 3 at all ranks.
    • Trap no longer stuns enemies, but functions differently:
      • Enemies on the outside are sucked inside the trap upon contact.
      • On the inside, touching a wall blinks the victim to the inside of the opposite end of the trap, conserving momentum and movement (this includes dashes, so no jumping out of the walls, but blinks and teleports would still work normally). This does not count as crowd control or displacement of any kind.
    • Cooldown reduced to 18 / 17 / 16 / 15 / 14 seconds, from 20 / 19 / 18 / 17 / 16.
    • Cost reduced to 80 / 85 / 90 / 95 / 100 from 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120.
    • Range increased to 700 from 650.
  • Primordial Burst:
    • Range increased to 1000 from 650.
    • Cost reduced to 100 mana at all ranks from 125 / 175 / 225.
    • Cooldown reduced to 120 / 100 / 80 from 130 / 110 / 90.
    • 80% enemy AP ratio removed.
    • Ratio reduced to 100% from 120%.
    • Active changed: Upon selecting his target, Veigar marks them for imminent doom, channeling for up to 5 seconds as he tries to lock onto them.
      • To lock onto his target, Veigar must hold his cursor over them.
      • Once locked onto his target for 1.5 seconds (doesn't have to be continuous), the channel breaks and Veigar blasts the target for massive damage.
      • If Veigar fails to lock onto his target, or cancels the channel manually by pressing R, half the cost and cooldown is refunded.

So basically, Veigar's core gameplay would still rely on trapping enemies inside his arena of death and bombarding them with nukes, while his enemies try to dodge everything thrown at them. He'd be a lot less reliant on landing his E (he could actually use his W on non-stunned enemies!), would have a much easier time farming AP, and would be able to nuke enemies from safer ranges, though he'd have a bit less reliability overall (he'd have more overall damage, though, with a total burst of 1360 (+ 310% AP) instead of his current 1080 (+ 280% AP), plus a bit more AoE). While enemies could still use gapclosers to try to dodge his abilities and his ult, most champions wouldn't be able to escape his Event Horizon at all, and so the counterplay would shift from jumping out of it to jumping inside it to avoid the pain that's about to land on top of them. If timed well, you could also use it to negate dashes by trapping enemies in a loop inside the trap (imagine trapping Sion right as he ults). What do you think?

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