New Malady: a sustain item for atkspd/ap champs

Thryale··4 votes·1,182 views

Okay, so for those of you have have been playing league for a long time now, you should know that malady used to provide lifesteal and atkspd. Then riot removed the lifesteal, and improved the on hit effect it had, then just flat out removed the item by moving it's key aspects to both wit's end and nashor's tooth.

So here I am with a suggestion for bringing back malady. But first, let's set up a basis of why.

Riot now, the kings of sustain are adc's. There is no denying, the build lifesteal, ad, atk, and crit, and most items have more than one of those stats attached, so healing up on creep waves after engages is easy for them. But champs who scale best with atkspd and ap (like kayle and teemo) or champs that can't afford many offensive items (unless fed) (like shyvana) really only have 1 item to buy for their sustain issues, and that is bork, and let's face it, bork is not a great sustain item if that is the only ad item you are building. So here is my attempt at a solution:

Malady: Builds out of 1 recurve bow (item 1043 ) and 1 hex tech revolver (item 3145 ) [why these items? they look nothing like swords. I get that, but right now, I'm going for the stats they provide, not what they look like. Also, recurve bow now builds out of dagger because REASONS]

Stats: 50% atk speed (can be lowered to 40% if necessary) 50 AP (can be lowered to 40 ap if necessary) Unique Passive: Baneful Strike: Each aa deals X (+.Y ap) mag dmg Unique Passive: Harvest (yeah, I suck at making names. Suggestions welcome): Each aa heals champ for X (+.Y ap)

The reason I chose a flat heal with a small ap ratio rather than a lifesteal clone is to help with possible abuse cases, and to allow the item to be more easily balanced. Also, this item should be more effective with higher atkspd rather than higher dmg anyway.

Any suggestions and/or constructive criticism is more than welcome. Also, what are your guys' thoughts on sustain for non-adc's anyway?

EDIT: So I've been noticing a lot of comments about spell vamp. First, on-hit effects (whether from items or kit) presently do not apply spell vamp. Now, a lot of you have been suggesting that we should just let spell vamp apply to on-hit effects.

The problem I see with that is this: spell vamp is an inherently broken system. Riot has admitted this already, and thus I wished to steer clear of using it as a solution for atk spd builds.

Also, on-hit effects are not limited to mag dmg in nature, hydra has an onhit effect, so you'd run into some wonky situations with hydra and gunblade having a weird synergy if this were allowed to happen. But then you might say, "well, just limit spell vamp to mag dmg only" the problem with that is spell vamp currently works for all spells, even phys dmg spells. If we were to limit to just mag dmg, that would be an indirect nerf to akali, who's pbaoe spell deals phys dmg.

See the problem with spell vamp? It's messy, and a can of worms I don't want to open.

Also, you guys seem to be afraid that this item with give some kind of ungodly sustain. Long story short, it will not be nearly as good as the kind of sustain an adc can get with a full build. End story. So don't worry about that.

20 Comments

Lord Dusteon3 votes

...Why wouldn't you just buy a hextech gunblade if you need sustain, are AP, and autoattack a lot? It gives sustain on all damage you do, has good AP + AD (and if you autoattack a lot you'll use the AD and lifesteal at least a bit), and has a good active that can be used even more if you autoattack.

Thryale1 votes

cuz gunblade is expensive, and the ad and lifesteal is quite useless on an atkspd build. Kayle and akali are the only 2 champs that really even use the item atm. And not even all kayles use it.

Lord Dusteon3 votes

{quoted}

cuz gunblade is expensive, and the ad and lifesteal is quite useless on an atkspd build. Kayle and akali are the only 2 champs that really even use the item atm. And not even all kayles use it.

"useless" "attackspeed build". You do understand what all autoattacks have, right? A 1.0 AD ratio!

You know what really synergizes with an attackspeed build? A great active that slows and has its cooldown reduced everytime you attack other champions.

Thryale1 votes

First, the ad gunblade gives is not that much Second, if yer running full atkspd/ap build you are not going to have any armor pen third, your dmg to towers is not determined by your ad, since your ap will be higher (you'll be in that twilight zone where you'll be seeing minimal gains to tower dmg with either ap or ad since both will be really low)

So in effect, yes the added ad is not worth the cost you are paying for it. Thus "useless."

And this directly affects the effectiveness of the lifesteal that the item provides.

Rebonack2 votes

Just have OnHits count as spells for the purpose of Spellvamp.

Kass' old W buff counted as a spell and could spellvamp. So does Jax' R and Kayle's E.

Just extend that functionality to all OnHit abilities and we're just fine.

Thryale1 votes

I updated my main post concerning spell vamp and onhit effects.

Talamare1 votes

I suggest removing Baneful and just giving it some Spell Vamp

Sire Hippington1 votes

Simply let all on-hits work with spellvamp(and maybe still add an as-ap-spellvamp item) having it with a healing that has high base and low ratio would easily make it broken on someone like WW or Shy, as they could just stack defstats on top of the sustain(the short period of Feral Flare)

Thryale1 votes

thing is, I never specified a base and ratio. Those numbers are for the balance team to determine.

If I were to make an educated guess tho, I'd say it'd be no more than 20 base with a .1 or even a .05 ratio (hurricane will do some scary stuff with this item, but it's realy no different than hydra for melee champs)

Sire Hippington2 votes

if the base is lowish, it would need a somewhat good ratio, which then wouldn't realy be different from the damagebased system as you still need more offense to get good sustain. A raw on-hit heal will be nearly impossible to balance, it will either be a very niche item for a selected few, or to strong item on thos few and good on others.

and there is a difference between hydra and hurricane: hydra deals 20-60% dmg and thus you also gian not as much lifesteal, while huricane would proc the full heal on all 3 targets. I played junglelucian while Feral Flare was strong, and while his early wasnt best, he became undkillable later on with huricane and 50+ stacks on feral(300heal each passive proc, 150 each AA with quite high as).

It would also force everyone to 1 specific item for sustain. Simply letting all on-hit apply spellvamp(which also would help consistancy) would allow for different sustain options and actually make use of some rarly seen items that already exist(item 3124 item 3146 )

about the hydra thing, there is already a unwriten rule about spellvamp: if it does use lifesteal, it will not use spellvamp! there are serveral skills useing on-hit and thus lifesteal, the do not use spelvamp in return There are AAs that use spellvamp while dealing magical damage, but they don't use lifesteal(Poppy Q) So i see no inherent problem with spellvamp.

Thryale1 votes

A lot of good points, but the main problem is that riot is planning on removing spell vamp in the future anyway. So why seek a sustain solution on a system that has been condemned?

Sire Hippington1 votes

they arewere also planning on engageing the fighter problem about 2 years ago...

So i don't think things are really set in stone already, and i truly wish for hybrid builds and spellvamp to eventually become viable.

iJedi1 votes

Harvest seems a little OP. As listed, it procs on auto-attacks, no matter the target - champion, minion, monster, tower, inhibitor - and always for the full amount, no matter how much armor/MR they have. And with AP scaling, it will automatically become a super-sustain item for mages as well. If a mage can heal on any auto-attack, they'll always get it as it will be effective with high levels of AP even with their slow AS.

It would probably work better if it gave some Spell Vamp or had a unique passive that returned health as a percentage of the damage dealt by the item. In the latter case, it could keep Baneful Strike or something similar.

Thryale1 votes

I considered the idea of the heal being equal to the dmg dealt by baneful. I suppose the reason I separated the two was so that there could be more levers to adjust for balancing. Like if it was healing too much but not doing enough dmg, or doing too much dmg, but not healing enough type of thing.

But I suppose simply healing for the mag dmg dealt is the most logical conclusion. At least that way, your in combat sustain is lowered.

Narasimha1 votes

I just don't want to see Teemo with ANY form of sustain.

Thryale1 votes

but it's okay for a tristana to 4 shot you and heal to full?

Narasimha1 votes

Considering its her job and its probably late game by then? Yes. Much as it is ok for an assassin to burst anyone within 2 seconds. Thats their role. Its is NOT for an AP DPS champ to have sustain. AP DPS is already very strong in that it is hard to itemize against. The last thing they need is to be stronger duelists as well.

Thryale1 votes

the sustain I'm looking for is out of combat sustain, like healing up on creep waves. Not being able to drain tank in a 1v1

Nausicäa 1 votes

Ya so, pretty much the only champion this would work on is Kayle.

Azir does not apply on hits, nor would he really benefit from sustain. Theres really no other 'auto attack AP' champion.

Ailady1 votes

yea i would like a ap/spd sustain item as well

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