Warwick nerf is unnecessary

Bears Dont Care··12 votes·808 views

As the subject said, it is an unnecessary nerf that lowers the viability of an already unviable champion. Warwick has no mobility to speak of, he cannot wall hop, has no utility outside his AD steroid which most ADC's don't need anyway, and his pre-6 ganking is so poor there is no reason to use him.

His only saving grace is his ultimate, which is relatively low CD; 90 seconds at rank 1; and it functions as both his only form of CC and his only form of gap closing. So now the CD s being increased by 20 seconds at rank 1; 10 seconds at rank 2; and thus further weakening his already poor ganking ability.

I disagree with this change. In terms of early ganking, Warwick is non-existent and so this change doesn't improve early ganking issues, those are the result of champion design not Jungle design. Even in the new jungle, Warwick still isn't going to be competing with the likes of Lee Sin, Kha'Zix, Rengar, Jarvin IV, Vi, and even Rammus. He has no CC outside his ult. No gap closer outside his ult, and there are far better choices if you wished to design a pick comp. I

Like Thresh, whose Q has greater range, a lower cooldown, and a lower mana cost that provides the same hard CC that Warwick's provides WITHOUT being breakable/interrupted.

On top of this, it was stated that Warwick would also be seeing a revamp in the future to address his viability, this change is assumed under the current version of Warwick and makes little sense as there is nothing to compensate for his overall, weak tool kit.

Do reconsider this change, it doesn't promote jungler diversity it only stifles it further.

25 Comments

Cloud2735 votes

Agreed. Warwick is fine as is.

AtheosisX4 votes

So just to be clear, WW is getting nerfed and Lee Sin remains untouched? Rofl...

Kuroi861 votes

Safeguard

Cooldown increased to 14 seconds from 9.
Cooldown is now reduced by 50% if the target was an allied champion (including self).
Shield duration reduced to 4 seconds from 5.
Will now only shield allied champion targets (can still target any ally). 

Iron Will

Buff duration reduced to 4 seconds from 5. 

Safeguard

Shield duration reduced to 2 seconds from 4. 

Cripple

No longer reduces enemy attack speed (reduced to 0% from 20/30/40/50/60%).
Bears Dont Care4 votes

Which is why he saw TONS of LCS play right? let us be real, the only reason Warwick seems to be so incredibly effective, is simpy because people play very unsafely. Warwick is a champ that acts sort of like an assassin. Picks a person, kills them, then becomes useless for 70 seconds. Though most assassins still remain useful without their ult 8D.

All his weaknesses still remain, and its not as if other junglers cannot utilize the same items or may not have a superior build. Lee sin is disgusting.

futuresight232 votes

Which is why he saw TONS of LCS play right? let us be real, the only reason Warwick seems to be so incredibly effective, is simpy because people play very unsafely. Warwick is a champ that acts sort of like an assassin. Picks a person, kills them, then becomes useless for 70 seconds. Though most assassins still remain useful without their ult 8D.

All his weaknesses still remain, and its not as if other junglers cannot utilize the same items or may not have a superior build. Lee sin is disgusting.

To be fair, Feral Flare had a playstyle that wasn't effective in competitive play. Try to farm up your stacks in competitive play and either your team gets destroyed before you matter or your team is able to hold up or even create advantages while you farm up in which case you would have won picking something better early game. Not to mention the professional scene was still in that 4v0 early tower push meta which meant the jungler's Flare would once again be delayed.

Matthevv2 votes

I'm sure I'll get hate from ww players but I feel that it is good he is kept underpowered until his rework. His kit is just so bad as it is right now.

The other thing to remember is that right now there are preseason changes on the pbe. You really should not be making judgement calls about balance right now unless you actually play on the pbe. Literally every champions stats got reworked and the jungle got a huge rework.

Guess what lane warwick is played most? That is right, jungle. For all we know he is crazy op in the new jungle. Calm yourself and wait until the patch hits live. Preseason is the time for all balance to be out of whack.

Bears Dont Care3 votes

I'm sure I'll get hate from ww players but I feel that it is good he is kept underpowered until his rework. His kit is just so bad as it is right now.

That doesn't really make much sense. If his kit is really bad right now, there isn't a reason to make it even worse.

The other thing to remember is that right now there are preseason changes on the pbe. You really should not be making judgement calls about balance right now unless you actually play on the pbe. Literally every champions stats got reworked and the jungle got a huge rework.

Yes the jungle did get reworked, but the most important changes were those to the items as well as smite. I had hoped these changed would improve Warwick's viability by smiting other champions to slow them but with the increase on his ult it means he has no strong means of ganking like Lee sin, JArvan, or Vi who can do the same thing but better

Guess what lane warwick is played most? That is right, jungle. For all we know he is crazy op in the new jungle. Calm yourself and wait until the patch hits live. Preseason is the time for all balance to be out of whack.

Ahaha but no. He is not crazy OP in the jungle. The amount of gold/exp in the new jungle is very underwhelming. You get only 2 pots, and for a sustain jungler liek Warwick its not a problem, but because gold and exp has been equalized and everything hits really hard, if you get counter jungled you suffer badly and Warwick isn't good at dealing with junglers like Kha'zix who can kite and burst him down.

In the new jungle Warwick is far from OP. Lee sin is still god as is Jarvan IV

Matthevv3 votes

You haven't played a single game on the pbe and still assume to have perfect knowledge of its current state of balance. How arrogant.

That doesn't really make much sense. If his kit is really bad right now, there isn't a reason to make it even worse.

You are either new to the game or just never pay attention. When a champion kit is deemed to be a net negative experience, ie the amount of fun the person playing the champion is having is worth less than the amount of aggravation that comes from facing said champion.

These champions are then purposely overnerfed to keep them from being played a lot and causing massive frustration amongst the playerbase. Examples of champions who have had this treatment include but not limited to: Eve, Sion, Poppy, Heimerdinger, Warwick

Eve was so overnerfed that before her rework you could force other players to dodge ranked games just by picking her. Until Warwick gets his rework he will be nerfed every time he starts gaining popularity.

Bears Dont Care3 votes

You haven't played a single game on the pbe and still assume to have perfect knowledge of its current state of balance. How arrogant.

What is... communicating with people who go on the PBE for 500 Alex? Unless you have some incredibly secret knowledge that suddenly makes Warwick a monster compared to Lee sin or any of the other viable junglers, then I fail to see why you would display your own brand of arrogance. I mean, you acknowledge Warwick is bad in the last point of your statement, and state nerfs are done to make bad champs even worse.

So... you unintentionally acknowledge I was correct but decide to call me arrogant anyway. Nice.

The nerf...isn't really needed and considering WW's revamp was postponed for a VU, its rather stupid and they really shouldn't do it since it just gives them a bad image.

Matthevv3 votes

Selective reading much? I am telling you why Riot is going to keep Warwick in an underpowered state. If you don't like it complain to Riot not me. Clearly on the pbe Riot considered him to not be underpowered anymore. He doesn't have to be better than lee sin for Riot to want to nerf him, he just needs to be average.

And you were never correct not even once. I acknowledged that Riot wants to keep Warwick bad, not that he was bad on the pbe before the nerfs. Learn to read.

Bears Dont Care3 votes

Selective reading much?

Hardly, I read everything within the context of what it is stated.

I am telling you why Riot is going to keep Warwick in an underpowered state. If you don't like it complain to Riot not me. Clearly on the pbe Riot considered him to not be underpowered anymore. He doesn't have to be better than lee sin for Riot to want to nerf him, he just needs to be average.

Um...he kinda does, he would need to be in such a state that his performance is a cause of concern even for the general population. For example, Kha'zix nerfs. He doesn't need to be better than Lee sin no, but he isn't average either. Furthermore, you stated earlier he was terrible and that the nerfs were to keep him even less played, so why the heck are you even making this suggestion if you believe that is the justification for Riot?

You're literally attempting to take 3-4 different oppositional stances at the same time and claiming that selective reading is occurring.

And you were never correct not even once.

Okay, and what information do you have that leads my assertion regarding the subject to be incorrect? You cannot simply declare another individual to be wrong, there actually has to be reasoning behind it.

I acknowledged that Riot wants to keep Warwick bad, not that he was bad on the pbe before the nerfs. Learn to read.\

Who wrote this then?

These champions are then purposely overnerfed to keep them from being played a lot and causing massive frustration amongst the playerbase. Examples of champions who have had this treatment include but not limited to: Eve, Sion, Poppy, Heimerdinger, Warwick.

Short term memory much? Seriously, you're spending you time whining that selective reading is occurring, that I have to learn how to read. Perhaps you should properly learn to articulate yourself. If you're going to make declarations of right and wrong, you should back yourself up better. If you're going to say "complain to riot not me." then that is obviously what I am doing because that is the very purpose of the topic.

It's like you say one thing and completely forget everything you said before hand.

Matthevv3 votes

I am done trying to explain this to you. This is how it works and it is not going to change. If you don't like it then too bad for you, go cry on the forums some more and get nothing accomplished.

Bears Dont Care3 votes

I am done trying to explain this to you.

No one needed your explanation. If you're going to declare me wrong though, back it up. If you can't, shut up and move on.

I appreciate the derailing though.

How is WW underpowered? I want some of that you're smoking.

Can't gap close without his ult. Can't CC without his ult. Said CC is a channel so WW suppresses himself, and you can also break it by stunning him.

He gets kited worse than Udyr does.

You can take him to top lane, but again, he doesn't really accomplish anything that isn't done much better by the majority of champs. Its why this nerf is really odd even with the reasoning behind it and just paints the balance team in a bad light.

wolfax2 votes

He did. Except you put your fingers in your ears and effectively went "la la la can't hear you".

BTW, Warwick's kit is in a bad place because he doesn't matter til level 6 in the jungle. After that your ganks are unstoppable. There's no way to do anything to outplay a WW ult gank without just running away and hoping he doesn't join your lane partner too long. Up until that point though... I don't think I've really seen him do much.

In lane he's an unstoppable healing machine. Ever tried to take a lanewick down? They don't go down. Their Q can heal through most normal harass, and damages you in the process

Hayaishi2 votes

How is WW underpowered? I want some of that you're smoking.

EffectFX2 votes

It's not that warwick is unviable, it's that he's intentionally kept weak due to the natural power his kit has. Last I checked thresh doesn't go around ganking lanes with his Q consistently and can be avoided, where as warwick is intended to gank lanes and his ult can't be avoided early game unless you simply stay out of range. And of course thresh Q doesn't deal anywhere near the damage of warwicks ultimate.

Keep in mind, these changes are all happening in the same patch as 4.20 patch with all the jungle changes, so I think your complaint jumping the gun.

Messaiga2 votes

Are you aware of how much more powerful Warwick will become with the pre-season changes coming? His passive and Q make him one of the few champs that can stay in the jungle for an extended period of time at the beginning of the game. The items and smite changes also make him very powerful (Skirmisher's Sabre + Devourer Enchantment can bring upwards of 500 damage onto his Ulti alone). We'll be seeing 1,500 damage Ultis from Warwick once the preseason comes and I can guarantee that it won't be fun to play against (nor take much effort to play as). He could easily be just as powerful now as he was back when Feral Flare first came out in 4.5, which we all know was annoying as all hell.

futuresight232 votes

Are you aware of how much more powerful Warwick will become with the pre-season changes coming? His passive and Q make him one of the few champs that can stay in the jungle for an extended period of time at the beginning of the game. The items and smite changes also make him very powerful (Skirmisher's Sabre + Devourer Enchantment can bring upwards of 500 damage onto his Ulti alone). We'll be seeing 1,500 damage Ultis from Warwick once the preseason comes and I can guarantee that it won't be fun to play against (nor take much effort to play as). He could easily be just as powerful now as he was back when Feral Flare first came out in 4.5, which we all know was annoying as all hell.

Those do appear to be two sizable buffs to Warwick. Sustain actually mattering in the Season 5 jungle when it didn't matter at all in Season 4 when most any champion could jungle well enough once they got to Spirit Stone is going to make Warwick at least a little better than he was in Season 4. The Skirmisher Saber which is likely going to be picked up before Warwick hits level 6 is going to be a sizable buff to his ultimate ganks as he will be getting max damage out of that item, especially in the laning phase. Unlike the Feral Flare or Devourer which is going to take time to level up or even acquire, the Saber is going to be available quickly and only needs Smite and Warwick ult to be up to be effective.

Bears Dont Care1 votes

Yes, that is correct.

TheFallenShaw1 votes

Warwick isnt under powered, everyone here seems to forget his most OP ability his W. With it he can crush towers and let his team be there with him and its a tower inhib and half the other tower before it wears off.

Bears Dont Care1 votes

Warwick isnt under powered, everyone here seems to forget his most OP ability his W. With it he can crush towers and let his team be there with him and its a tower inhib and half the other tower before it wears off.

When you consider the current top picks, this isn't really an issue or really that much of an enhancement as one imagines.

AloneInTheCrowd1 votes

WW is played in every LCS / WOrlds / OGN match , therefore they had to nerf him LeeSin

Kuroi861 votes

It really just points out the need for WW' rework to get finished.

tofutime1 votes

They didn't nerf him enough.

AHeroNamedHawke1 votes

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