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Karthus does not need buffs

CerealBoxOfDoom··3 votes·570 views

Karthus ult getting countered by another item does not warrant buffs. That's like buffing jinx because more move speed on boots makes it harder to get caught in her chompers.

Karthus's requiem is situationally good but is and always has been his weakest ability which is meant to be used strategically. The introduction of edge of night does not justify a buff.

Also isn't there now a mana item that can be used after death to deal more damage and heal allies????

The only thing karthus needs in response to edge of night is some excuse to build the more budget friendly item 3135 ... OH WAIT IT GIVES MR

130 MR

240 ability power vs 80 ability power + 35% mpen

Q = 130 + 30% AP E = 110 (+ 20% AP)

these ratio's aren't great

240 * .3 = 72 +130 = 202

202 * (100/(100+130)) = 87.8260869565

80 * .3 = 24 +130 = 154 154 * (100/(100+.65*(130))) = 83.4688346883

At 130 MR item 3135 for 2650 gives karthus Q roughly the same damage as item 1058 item 1058item 1058item 1058 for 5000g or item 3089 for 3800g

edge of night gives no hp and dependence on it is thus perfectly fine for mages if they want to go that direction.

Stacking edge of night with item 3139 and item 3102 and item 3156 will not be practical with additional high damage item against any mage that knows how to build.

43 Comments

specter4244 votes

??? Zhonya's and Maw already fuck him over but sure lets add another item with even less downtime

CerealBoxOfDoom3 votes

if you were relying on karthus's ult to win your games then you are terrible and should stop playing karthus

specter4245 votes

I rely on Karthus's ult to kill low hp targets that are running away. If I am using the longest cooldown ult in the game I want something from it.

CerealBoxOfDoom2 votes

{quoted}

if you were relying on karthus's ult to win your games then you are terrible and should stop playing karthus

if you were relying on karthus's ult to win your games then you are terrible and should stop playing karthus

Ralanr1 votes

I don't know why you're being downvoted. If you need to rely on one ability of your champion to win a game then you really shouldn't be using that champion in the hopes of winning.

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

This really sounds as if you ran out of arguments. Like, who else "doesn't" use their ult to secure wins in games?

CerealBoxOfDoom2 votes

{quoted}

This really sounds as if you ran out of arguments. Like, who else "doesn't" use their ult to secure wins in games?

the majority of mages don't.

The ult is impactful but is not always the center of their kit, it often isn't actually.

If you are playing karthus strictly for his ult, like if you actually build for his ult specifically, then you are probably gimping yourself and are hurting your team's back

R181 votes

{quoted}

??? Zhonya's and Maw already fuck him over but sure lets add another item with even less downtime

I like how the op called you terrible, yet is unranked

Ralanr1 votes

First, pretty sure OP is on a smurf. Second, so what if he's unranked?

R181 votes

{quoted}

First, pretty sure OP is on a smurf. Second, so what if he's unranked?

How is he a smurf if he plays like that?

Ralanr1 votes

I mean that his main account which isn't the smurf is probably ranked.

R181 votes

{quoted}

I mean that his main account which isn't the smurf is probably ranked.

This isn't the point. A champion being countered by a single item (fiora, zed-QSS) has been noted by riot As uneahlthy. In zed and Fioras cAse, it warranted nerfs, here it should warrant a small buff

Ralanr1 votes

But buffing it so his ult isn't countered by those things isn't the way to go.

Karthus's ult is an iconic ability, but it isn't all he is. You could buff him elsewhere, like his other basic abilities.

D357R0Y3R1 votes

i agree, karthus will be without an ultimate after this patch, he does not need a buff.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

looked at another way

If karthus ult necessitates the building of such items then your opponents become predictable and lose a lot of potential alternatives.

Additionally karthus ult before use continues to suffocate and control matches. If they don't save everything for that ult then they will get shit on.

Karthus ult is not his strongest ability, in fact it is his least impactful as far as his viability goes. To the point its cooldown can be increased and the game becomes healthier without him being affected much in higher level play outside of popularity as he once was.

Game balance is not a wire act, karthus should not be and is not reliant on his ult dealing damage.

The cost of using that item strictly for karthus is going to remain massive for most who would wish to build such a thing.

By the way anyone who was thinking they'd stop anyone who was going to build something like this with a karthus ult is fucking delusional

D357R0Y3R1 votes

what's your problem mate? you're not forcing the enemies to build anything, building item 3157 item 3102 item 3053 item 3156 /edge of the knight, won't fuck any of your build, by the way if you're not building depending on the enemies that means you're just bad.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

no clue what you just said

R181 votes

ATM Karthus is crazy strong in KR and a good pick in NA. He will need SOME buffs AFTER the assasin update as long as they don't alter much more than his ult.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

The only buff karthus might need is his base armor after the new item makes melee carries a thing again. Particularly for toplane. That or they could ungated the hp regen for DOT abilities on item 3010 some to help compensate

Karthus needs absolutely no compensation for his ult and probably doesn't need the things I just suggested either even if that other stuff I mentioned does come to pass

R181 votes

{quoted}

The only buff karthus might need is his base armor after the new item makes melee carries a thing again. Particularly for toplane. That or they could ungated the hp regen for DOT abilities on item 3010 some to help compensate

Karthus needs absolutely no compensation for his ult and probably doesn't need the things I just suggested either even if that other stuff I mentioned does come to pass

If they buffed his ult, the only thing I would change is reducing its cool down slightly and GREATLY reducing its damage so it's not AS easily countered. The base armor increase makes sense though

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

decreasing his ult cooldown should basically be out of the question. It was buffed for a damn good reason. Building does not count as counterplay and if his ult is buffed in this way he will go back to the game suffocation machine he used to be, unacceptable.

R181 votes

{quoted}

decreasing his ult cooldown should basically be out of the question. It was buffed for a damn good reason. Building does not count as counterplay and if his ult is buffed in this way he will go back to the game suffocation machine he used to be, unacceptable.

Are you even listening? The drastic decrease in damage would allow Karthus to let a target, without them dodging it every time.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

The amount of damage is utterly irrelvant

R181 votes

{quoted}

The amount of damage is utterly irrelvant

Just checked your history. You play arms mostly, which skews your interpretation

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

I play arms mostly?

R181 votes

{quoted}

I play arms mostly?

Maybe I exxagerated, but less than half of your games are normal/ranked

CerealBoxOfDoom2 votes

Even if that was relevant that's a terrible observation.

  1. You don't know how often I play. If I play a lot of games and happen to play a lot of alternative modes then that fails to matter

  2. You don't know why I played those modes. Maybe it was to save time during a period of time when that was a thing or because I was busy that week. I can play 2 aram games in the amount of time it takes to play one ranked/normals

  3. You haven't shown that the same doesn't apply to aram matches even if it did

  4. I was just referencing something that took place in season 2 as a reminder as to why karthus shouldn't have his ult buffed.. I doubt you were looking at 3-4 YEARS worth of my game history. Especially when aram didn't even officially exist back then.

R181 votes

{quoted}

Even if that was relevant that's a terrible observation.

  1. You don't know how often I play. If I play a lot of games and happen to play a lot of alternative modes then that fails to matter

  2. You don't know why I played those modes. Maybe it was to save time during a period of time when that was a thing or because I was busy that week. I can play 2 aram games in the amount of time it takes to play one ranked/normals

  3. You haven't shown that the same doesn't apply to aram matches even if it did

  4. I was just referencing something that took place in season 2 as a reminder as to why karthus shouldn't have his ult buffed.. I doubt you were looking at 3-4 YEARS worth of my game history. Especially when aram didn't even officially exist back then.

Season 2 has little relevence to right now.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

The laws of mathematics have not changed significantly since season 2. The toxicity of karthus's ult hasn't changed either.

If you enjoy 2 hour games though then good for you.

R181 votes

{quoted}

The laws of mathematics have not changed significantly since season 2. The toxicity of karthus's ult hasn't changed either.

If you enjoy 2 hour games though then good for you.

You not liking something the majority of players are fine with doesnt make it toxic

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

You don't speak for the majority of players, the reputably foolish gameplay forums do not speak for the majority of players either

Many of these people wouldn't know balance if it crawled up their ass let alone understand how karthus's ult can be toxic.

The amount of hidden power it possesses is not even calculable and the greatest testimate to this toxicity I have no need to refer to personal preference for is the fact that not only has riot nerfed it, they nerfed every similar ability and stopped making anything similar ever again up until you perhaps reksai who again ended up being a balance nightmare even with a watered down addition to such things. Karthus was once the poster child of problematic global abilities and as it turned out he simply didn't need that up all the time, in fact he didn't even have to use to change the outcome of the game.

specter4242 votes

he sucks and you gain nothing by picking him. his q delay is way too long to hit anyone with boots or just buy a negatron and stand in minions. rylais was the only way to get consistent solo q's on people and goodbye to that.

R182 votes

{quoted}

he sucks and you gain nothing by picking him. his q delay is way too long to hit anyone with boots or just buy a negatron and stand in minions. rylais was the only way to get consistent solo q's on people and goodbye to that.

You sir are bad and have the Intellegence of a banana.

specter4241 votes

I think you are playing with players of low intelligence if you think Karthus is fine.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

then I guess that 52% winrate in plat is cuz of stupid people... or 54% in diamond

R181 votes

{quoted}

I think you are playing with players of low intelligence if you think Karthus is fine.

Mhm so the champ with a 54.5% winrate in FUCKING KOREA for the past TWO patches is weak. Says the level 21.

420 grams1 votes

I think he needs his mana cost down on w. But that'd be the only thing

Requiemsfire1 votes

I guess what some people don't really get is that Karthus has more relevance in a game than just picking off champions with his ult, it's really more to do with scaling into the lategame as opposed to curb stomping early on. When it comes to late game team fights it becomes less about when you use your ult and more to do with where you die. ;)

R181 votes

Literary every post saying buff karthus for this is getting upvoted while you're getting downvoted, see a trend?

CerealBoxOfDoom2 votes

yes, I have seen a trend.

New people who know nothing often judge things based on upvotes and downvotes. Its a terrible trend that needs to stop if you can call something that's happened for over half a decade a "trend".

A little Peepo1 votes

Karthu's biggest counter has always been assassins and he can't generally do much against then, especially with mobility and all ins. Idk if buffing karthus right now is the best idea but I'm pretty sure he like every other mage will struggle since assassins are going to be shifting back into the meta.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

Karthus's strengths and weaknesses aren't changing. And frankly, with rylais becoming a mana item I feel no pity for fucking karthus lol

A little Peepo1 votes

Even a Rylais slow won't save you from a zed, talon, rengar, fizz, Kat, lb all in. Plus Rylais will end up getting nerfed as well, that's for sure. At least with Rylais u gained health and became tankier but now he will be squishier

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