something to stop melee from whining about ranged so much

CerealBoxOfDoom·Oct 30, 2016·41 votes·2,407 views

- now gives you an actual fucking shield because dorans shield is a fucking shield!

shield regenerates overtime to a flat maximum of what... lets say 30. No scaling this is an earlygame item.

30 is like 2 minion attacks isn't it?

anyways, it regenerates and should give you like 5-10 shield per second. No longer regenerates hp or does anything else it used to do. Its just flat hp + a shield.

maybe gain 10 shielding whenever you kill a minion with an item that gives most champs 0 extra damage to do so with

95 Comments

Best Kog NAOct 30, 201620 votes

Melee mains are never going to stop whining about ranged until... like until Garen is going to be able to be a viable adc pretty much. (I'm ready for the downvotes. Bring em on)

MarshbouyOct 30, 201630 votes

but the real question is... Is AP garen a viable ADC?

DeathBot666Oct 30, 201614 votes

Melee people won't stop complaining until the boards are full of "Riot is biased against ranged" threads.

ModCaptainMårvelousOct 30, 201620 votes

Fun fact: One of the predominant complaints of Season 2 and beyond was that League didn't have a true melee carry. People cried and wanted it.

And so Riot giveth: Fiora Yasuo Gangplank

People don't want melee carries anymore.

5000000000000000Oct 30, 20163 votes

tbh GP isn't really a melee carry.

ModCaptainMårvelousOct 30, 20167 votes

He's "melee". Part of why GP is a melee carry is because he can augment his range via spells and abilities. Psuedo-melee if you well.

EcchiOtakuTMOct 31, 20162 votes

Him, fiora, yasuo, tryn, and yi ARE melee carries though.

5000000000000000Oct 31, 20162 votes

And they are mostly hated. No disagreement there

EcchiOtakuTMOct 31, 20161 votes

Well yea they're melee carries(which will finally have a proper term when the new role names come "skirmishers") and the issue most will have is, skirmishers in general can take out anyone regardless of tankiness or defensive abilities when built and played right cause they usually synergize with the same items(AS/Crit/LS) ranged carries(marksmen) do and contain a defensive ability to aid their safety.

Although GP could use a different E still.....Tryn needs a relaunch...and yasuo's going to be broken as long as they don't change his ulti's bonus to something aside from a "Make any tanky item into a LW for free".

But sadly for yasuo everyone focuses on passive/2x crit/windwall/mobility when those aren't giving hidden power that the ulti is.

AmazoXOct 31, 20162 votes

Though, Yasuo & Riven are considered Slayers, Ekko is a skirmisher, Just saying it out here.

RivuoOct 31, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Kog NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N46t3UeZ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-10-30T19:23:38.408+0000)

Melee mains are never going to stop whining about ranged until... like until Garen is going to be able to be a viable adc pretty much. (I'm ready for the downvotes. Bring em on)

OR OR OR... Melee champs actually have a good point?

DunkinNoobsOct 30, 201610 votes

I will start this against literally every melee champ. Free trades every time the shield is up and then disengage.

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 30, 20161 votes

there wont be enough shield for versing a melee champ, if you force a trade they will likely get close enough before their hp goes down to trade back as well. More than likely they will get more out of it than a ranged champ, if its melee vs melee that could be a different story but for the most part this item just says no to halfassed poker trade and does little against all in trading.

Also cant they just reengage if you are the one approaching them?

DunkinNoobsOct 30, 20164 votes

Think for a moment: We already have an example of a shield that works as you describe. Yasuo passive. And in practice, his shield tends to be far more effective in lane against melee champs because melee champs have to trade in order to proc it rather than just poke with autos. Your Dshield would be no different: it would mitigate ranged poke slightly and completely discourage trades from melees. You ever wonder why Yasuo is so oppressive early game in top lane? It's the damn shield.

kasfasOct 30, 20164 votes

Wish he wasn't oppressive in the early game for someone who scales so well and doesn't have a weak Midgame either.

The struggles of a top main.

(I really f*$&ng hate Yasuo)

DunkinNoobsOct 30, 20163 votes

Saying that Yasuo has a strong early game is a bit of a misnomer. He has a strong lvls 1 and 2. Beyond, he starts to get outscaled rapidly since his base damage per level on his abilities are so low and his stats gains per level are also medicore. He also has one of the worst first backs in the game and one of the weakest ult powerspikes for a fighter/assassin. Most bruisers start winning at that point provided they aren't too far behind by then.

GayFluffyUnicornOct 30, 20162 votes

Don't know what's so bad about 60% crit chance, AS and MS for 1300 gold. Ending in an additional unable to be creep blocked+12% dmg reduction in duels.

DunkinNoobsOct 30, 20163 votes

You mean 40% crit with no AD, 15% AS which is barely more than a dagger, and 5% MS. There's a reason Triforce Yasuo was a thing for a while: It let him rush item 3044 instead of item 3086 so his first back wasn't so shitty.

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 30, 20162 votes

my shield would be different because it doesn't scale and will be fairly small.

yasuo's shield can easily block 2 autos from some champs and is offline longer.

This shield will resemble urf sona's shield

yasuo vs urf sona Sona

big annoying shield vs rapidly regenerating small shield

Yasuo punishes you for using your abilities because the shield can eat it while you waste resources Sona punishes you for using small puckish attacks because the shield is only big enough to stop those but regenerates constantly.

Yasuo is rewarded for being away from you for several seconds while the shield returns Sona is not rewarded or punished much for being away from you for more than a few seconds as she will reach the maximum of what she'd be getting much more quickly, granted hers actually comes with a heal as well that will do nothing to actually protect from serious burst.

MarshbouyOct 30, 20166 votes

Would also be abuse able on ranged or at least no change at all. Melees can easily get the shield popped from ranged attacks. Ranged can just save the shield until the melee dives in.

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 30, 20161 votes

melee vs ranged starts with this

ranged gets no damage but will be tankier when attacked.

melee is more likely to have innate sustain to stack on top of this plus more stats to scale alongside it while its still useful.

Everytime you take a hit it becomes something like an extra hp pot of sorts. It also stops you from taking quite so much minion agro if you happen to hit a ranged champ.

If the two decide to fight then the ranged champ is going to lose out on that one since it punishes those who merely poke rather than commit to a fight. They'll have to commit to their harassment long enough to get counterattacked with an item like this.

Keep in mind that 30 is an arbritrary number, the necessary amount for this to work is probably something more like whatever the damage on Kennen Q at level 2 with 32 AP is minus like 30% Or maybe just an autoattack from the average adc.

It could be abused in bot lane but of course there's the whole support gold advantage they'd miss out on.

MarshbouyOct 30, 20162 votes

Your argument made a good deal of sense and was a lot easier to read then your post. I still fear that it would hurt melee top lane bullies more than ranged. You would also have to deal with the (kind of) RNG of a shield saving you in a fight, saving you from ignite, ETC.

If you made the shield out of combat only, then a good ranged top laner would poke you frequently enough to make sure that you could never generate the shield without missing a lot of Cs.

the weeabooOct 31, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Would also be abuse able on ranged or at least no change at all. Melees can easily get the shield popped from ranged attacks. Ranged can just save the shield until the melee dives in.

Melee only

dunder killOct 30, 20166 votes

No scaling this is an earlygame item.

I think the problem with item 1054 is that it has no scaling so nobody wants to buy it. Every other "early game item" item has scaling...... why not ?

item 1055 3% life steal, scales with AD

item 1056 +50% base mana regen, scales with level

item 2033 damage scales with level

and then we have...

item 1054 all flat values, zero scaling. The thing is its absolute strongest at level 1 and gets weaker and weaker the longer the game goes

MelledoneusOct 30, 20167 votes

item 1054 +100 HP, +70% base health regen.

UNIQUE Passive: Reduces damage taken by spells and attacks by 10.

Dabrick01Oct 31, 20161 votes

10 is literally nothing to a Jhin whose 4th shot does like 1000 dmg.

MelledoneusOct 31, 20162 votes

Late game Jhin deals that much damage. If all you have late game against a Jhin is Doran's shield you deserve to die.

Not to mention if you stack armor against Jhin like you SHOULD, his 1000 values can be reduced to something more manageable like 300, and 10 off of that is essentially a 3% decrease in his strongest attack.

Also the late game scaling value is the increased base health regen. People like Shen and Sion have good base HP regen, so it helps them a ton.

Meep ManOct 31, 20161 votes

Screw DoT Mages!

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 31, 20161 votes

Teemo screw them indeed. This would be a very strong item against them, however most of them aside form teemo aren't going to be rushing a ton of damage but rather resources for farming earlyon. they will be rewarded for getting damage still but they will not be able to rely on dot poke and such.

Heimerdinger Cassiopeia Fizz Kennen Katarina Malzahar Singed Velkoz Zyra

tiniest violin

flibitydooOct 31, 20163 votes

technically the flat health scales with your resistances.

if you buy 100 points of armour, that doran's shield gives you not 80, but 160 points of EHP (against physical damage)

I think the actual issue is that it costs too much. You can only grab 1 health potion with it which means one big trade, and you're out of trade power compared to corrupting potion.

RageLessPlayMoreOct 31, 20161 votes

[deleted]

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 31, 20161 votes

against some champions that will be a better choice, that's a good thing though

DemainaNyxOct 30, 20162 votes

Melee players whining about ranged characters need to learn to play the match up. You lose unless you play smart.

I had a game where I got filled in top, so I picked Nasus cause I hadn't played him in a while. I got countered by a Quinn who literally would vault off me any time I went in to Q a minion in an attempt to deny the minion. So I stayed as far back as I could while still being in experience range, once the wave hit my tower I got the minions I could while trying to dodge her abilities, and then I repeated. She ate a few tower shots trying to poke me under tower so I ghosted after her and got first blood. I was always at a cs disadvantage in that lane, but that's what you have to expect when you get that lane, you play safe and wait for your power spike and then squish them cause they die to all ins very easily.

I honestly don't think changing the item will stop people from complaining. Most want to be the tank that stands in the middle of the lane farming minions, while the enemy team is throwing everything at them and yet they aren't losing health.

Dabrick01Oct 31, 20162 votes

I'd be ok if I didn't deal dmg as a tank if people had to invest a bit more in killing me. Right now, tanks can get practically one shot or put behind so much that they are useless. I just don't think that one ADC roaming to top should be able to 100-0 a full tank. Not that the tank should kill the ADC, but the ADC should be doing minimal dmg.

DengedenOct 31, 20162 votes

Just another thing to break manaless champs. And here I thought you were gonna give advice like that one guy.

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 31, 20161 votes

which manaless champ would this break exactly?

DengedenOct 31, 20161 votes

The ninjas, maybe Yasuo in certain matchups (maybe not Kennen, Doran's Blade and whatnot) and obnoxious champs like Mundo, Kat and Gnar.

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 31, 20161 votes

mundo wont get much out of this unless he isn't building hp and even then he really wont get much out of it unless your strategy against mundo was to poke mundo down until he had to go base.............

shen? I'm sure he'll get something out of it at early levels but it wont solve his more fundamental issues and it wont put his sustain over the top

zed?? it gives no damage to zed

Same for akali, I'm sure she could get something out of this but she needs a rework anyways.

rammus will actually abuse this quite a bit but if you are getting bullied by rammus in lane this item isn't going to be the reason, you just got counterpicked.

DengedenOct 31, 20161 votes

What else can you do against Mundo but poke and kite him?

You really don't remember what was hated for so long about Zed? It was him being "unkillable" through hextrinker. A starting shield item would have the same effect. Same thing for Akali. Heck, Doran's Shield was a staple item on Kat before it got nerfed.

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 31, 20161 votes

if you are seriously trying to kill mundo you are going to need more than a few pokes here and there. Anything more than that will get through this item's defense as it will only be blocking something like 5-10 damage per second. that will be a nerf against fully committing champs.

On the otherhand it will also mean that a champ like mundo who only hits you every now and then will actually be less oppressive

Akali will have the same issue, this item will actually stop her poke damage, same with katarina.

Zed will also lose out to this item against anyone who's using it.

zed will not become unkillable, if you commit to killing zed then this item will actually prevent less damage than normal dorans blade.

The item I designed actually stops noncommittal damage not all ins. Against an all in attack it is effectively a small boost to hp regen that wont actually recover your hp.

Unlike hexdrinker... this item does not care what kind of damage it is, it wont block one ability and not another, and it doesn't give zed ANY damage and will not build into any kind of damage ever. It might help him against ranged but it will also help ranged against him if he builds it.

DengedenNov 1, 20161 votes

When did I mention all-ins? Assassins are great at in and out trades, presuming they don't get poked down easily, which is exactly what your item would defend against.

A ranged manadependent champion would not buy this any more than they do now. They need a mana starting item.

Akali's pre 6 poke is pathetic to non-existent and she thrives on sustained damage, which is what your item would offer over an extended period of time.

Well you'd still need to 100-0 Zed then, rarely a feasible option.

CerealBoxOfDoomNov 1, 20161 votes

akali will be getting a 50 hp shield as is.

after getting through it 3 times you will have given her an extra hp pot essentially... but if you have attacked her 3 times you have also dealt a lot more than 150 damage..

actually I think I said 30 so it would actually be 5 times. and that would be EVEN MORE THAN more than 150

and no, you do nnot need to 100-0 zed, especially if he is building hp instead of damage. In that case you need to laugh at him and continue acquiring elo

DengedenNov 1, 20161 votes

You have never faced a Zed who walked past minions to burst you, cool.

Any effective anti-poke tool will apply to any champion, if it doesn't work with Akali, it won't work with tanks.

CerealBoxOfDoomNov 1, 20161 votes

I have faced a zed who has walked past minions to burst me, or he tried to anyways.

During this time

if he does not have much damage he is not going to burst a fucking thing, including the miniosn if he does not have damage he will not heal much if he has a way to if he is stacking hp then you aren't gonna do much to him either way if he has a small non-scaling shield then by the time he gets some damage it is no longer going to be scaling all that well If he is going to all in he will get the benefits but he will get even less than akali who can at least sustain back what she loses or hide in her W to recharge it for an escape. Zed gets far less use out of it especially if he is trying to go deep into lane opening himself to being attacked far more quickly than the shield can regenerate. Mage autoattacks will be able to penetrate this at level 1-6 depending on how much shield you give. Level 1 based off the number I gave

DengedenNov 1, 20161 votes

That's the bloody point, his Q through minions does no damage which is why he will always try to get it past them directly to you. If you can't punish him for walking up, bam.

And again, tanks will have to go far deeper than Zed always making the item worse for them.

CerealBoxOfDoomNov 1, 20161 votes

thought you were talking about something else, in this case they'll do even less damage and zed will simply fail to scale well if he doesn't build sustain or something. This isn't going to really be enough to stop nuking and poke mages trying to poke zed out aren't going to be seeing much difference I imagine unless they were strong enough to actually do so to begin with.

The nature of this item makes it hard to poke someone out early but it also makes it hard for them to poke you out as well. This is why it is not supposed to scale that well.

DengedenNov 1, 20161 votes

You are in no way encouraging inaction with this item, it doesn't become less effective when you do damage to the enemy. Champions like Zed which have more opportunities when it comes to CSing, as opposed to tanks will have more opportunities to poke as they won't get harassed by AAs as easily.

Zed often builds defensive stats, a defensive starting item won't hinder his damage. He usually starts Doran's Shield against Yasuo.

Of course, Rumble and Katarina will be even worse offenders but the point stands.

CerealBoxOfDoomNov 1, 20161 votes

Correct, I am not encouraging inaction and do not aim to.

Zed with no damage vs an actual tank will just be wasting his time even if he wont be killed. Are you suggesting that a full tank will normally just shit on zed and kill twice before 4 minutes or something? What are you getting at here? Do defensive items on zed really make it that much harder to zed? I don't see zed players starting summoner 21 summoner 4 so they can trololo tanks at level 1. I don't think that's really how it normally works