Did you know... that league actually has semi-designated shot callers?

CerealBoxOfDoom··46 votes·3,528 views

Shot calling can be a little annoying at times sure but it also unifies a team when everyone has the same goal. Everyone wants to be the boss sometimes but did you know there is actually a pecking order?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw6YxwOcg_A

I'm going to skip alot of the specifics, most of it is more debatable but there are 2 at the top you need to know about especially if you are lower than plat rank. Not to suggest you should always listen to this person because alot of times they will be shit players just like most people in the gameplay forums.

supports are at the top of the pecking order by default. They are the ones actually watching shit and producing vision. Support needs to know who's doing what and should be prepared to warn even when some idiot fails to call MIA, no fucking excuses do you job.

When its time for ganks or dragon grabs the jungler may make a call. If bot agrees to help support is still the shot caller for the most part but jungler gets to judge if he can or can't get the dragon and how to take the dragon. Support is in charge of the larger scale shots while jungler handles the smaller situation. "Do we need the toplaner?" If the support did their job and coordinated wards knowing full and damn well that a chance to secure the dragon was coming up then the support should know if top is needed. Top should have a good guess but support should know almost for certain if they have everything they need to make this happen. Do we want to prioritize something other than dragon? When the jungler pings you've got like 2 seconds to overrule hope you did your fucking job support.

Next up of course is the jungler but the jungler mostly makes calls for the jungle not the team in general. The jungler calls shots earlygame in places the support can't reach. Later on its just whomever is going to be engaging or counterengaging that comes second in command though this will sometimes be the jungler or it could also be the support.

Then later in the game you have the one handles engages and counterengages. Who this actually is is debatable but when ashe peels for you every teamfight and runs away not wanting to commit to the fight support should prepare a call based on this strategy and the rest of you should shut the fuck up and do what youre told if there are no complaints and support seems to be competent.. which they often wont be below plat.

Next up is the major damage dealer. For the most part this person should be saying what they need. When your damage dealer pings for buffs or minions OR EVEN KILLS you should back the fuck off unless this person is definitely wrong for some reason. I don't care if you "earned your kill" reality doesnt give a fuck what you earned, the math either says one player can use the gold more effectively or they can't. End of story. The major damage dealer should not be worrying much about making calls during fights, they should be operating on a solid plan and guided by instinct and called shots. Support should blow their load and focus on keeping the team coordinated with both vision and positioning. This is part of why some supports like to have alot of move speed.

For the most part, carries and mages will be at the bottom of the pecking order. Fighter pilots and bomber crews don't typically call the shots, they fire them and make split second judgment calls.

Just to stress how important this is. In pro games, before minions even spawn, the jungler will ping for an invade or defense and then the support will respond to this call and begin to coordinate anticipated attacks from either team. Later-on it is the support that will go and check dragon and keep vision high and communicate unusual behavior while the adc focuses on getting near perfect cs by 10 minutes. In some games (where this was arranged and members have some confidence in one another) the jungler will request an invade after minions have been spawning for even 7 minutes or so expecting the adc or toplaner to come, if its in botlane the support will confirm that they are ready to defend the lane on their own while the adc goes to help invade, if the adc is losing levels and cs by invading very probably they are trying to snowball another lane and fuck the enemy jungler. Don't be stupid in soloqueue just because pros do this please.

edit:

I'm a mid main so don't even

52 Comments

Blue Moon Wolf18 votes

Ezreal: Umm... are you sure that this is- Bard: Pecking order... Ezreal: Sorry O_o Bard: Damn right you are.

Alüe14 votes

Just a point of reference, currently at plat 2 elo, the jungler makes a majority of the laning phase calls. After it is pretty much game for anyone. Everyone has pretty much the same mindset.

chipndip17 votes

Pecking order in actuality:

No one because no one has respect for anyone or anything in solo queue. Only exception is if someone that's carrying a game starts shot calling. Then everyone listens to that guy.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

{quoted}

Pecking order in actuality:

No one because no one has respect for anyone or anything in solo queue. Only exception is if someone that's carrying a game starts shot calling. Then everyone listens to that guy.

Ideally you don't want your ace focused on communications and split second decisions. You want them focused on reaming the enemy and taking objectives. This applies in pretty much any competitive thing from sports to war.

The guy who has 10/0/20 should only be worried about what it is he needs, ideally someone else would be handling the communications... but yes reality is a bitch and you have to adapt sometimes. The support will sometimes not even buy a warding item.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

Ideally you don't want your ace focused on communications and split second decisions. You want them focused on reaming the enemy and taking objectives. This applies in pretty much any competitive thing from sports to war.

The guy who has 10/0/20 should only be worried about what it is he needs, ideally someone else would be handling the communications... but yes reality is a bitch and you have to adapt sometimes. The support will sometimes not even buy a warding item.

I'm not telling you what I think it should be.

I'm telling you what it actually is.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

{quoted}

I'm not telling you what I think it should be.

I'm telling you what it actually is.

so am I. perhaps I should say "optimally" rather than "ideally"

jaymc11302 votes

{quoted}

Pecking order in actuality:

No one because no one has respect for anyone or anything in solo queue. Only exception is if someone that's carrying a game starts shot calling. Then everyone listens to that guy.

How to jungle 101.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

How to jungle 101.

Exactly.

Jungler gets off a few sweet plays and scratches everyone's back a good little bit, and now everyone's gonna follow their calls. That's why the jungler is usually the shot caller.

On the flip side, supports trying to call shots is extremely difficult because the class is so underappreciated. In a random environment, supports are the last ones to be noticed for major contributions. I've had many instances where I'd try to get people to rally up at objectives or do specific things...to no avail. If I get a response as to why, it's because "No one cares what you have to say. Stfu you did less damage than me with item 3060 item 3174 item 3098 item 2049 item 3009 ."

A Liberal4 votes

Underappreciated support story:

I was playing Soraka and baby sitting my Ashe, the entire game always by her side pretty much never leaving.

In the post game chat, the Ashe gets a ton of praise from the enemy top laner and is asked to duo.

Meanwhile I'm just like 😕 I helped too

Mandang02 votes

That was true in solo queue.

Now it's just getting railroaded by the premade on your team... who has no respect for anyone else or anything else in their game.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

That was true in solo queue.

Now it's just getting railroaded by the premade on your team... who has no respect for anyone else or anything else in their game.

No, it's still true. Just because people are premade doesn't mean they're destined to go left when you say right. It might be less so, but it's still true in general. It's why you don't see marksmen calling objectives in most cases...because they cash in on plays, but they don't make big plays happen.

ImmortalBloodCY6 votes

Well i cant count the amount of times i saved people by using my pings correctly.(Support)

However i believe early to mid game jungler calls the order.

That said do your jungler a favor and stop pushing minion waves otherwise you will never see a gank and you will be ganked.

CerealBoxOfDoom13 votes

{quoted}

Well i cant count the amount of times i saved people by using my pings correctly.(Support)

However i believe early to mid game jungler calls the order.

That said do your jungler a favor and stop pushing minion waves otherwise you will never see a gank and you will be ganked.

jungler pings that he's coming

yellow pings and he pings that he's coming anyways

yellow pings again and he sits in the bush waiting for the lane to unpush... may as well now.

lane finally unpushes... you type that you don't want a gank he ganks anyways

you join in and he doesnt get a kill... but if you don't follow his lead he just goes and dies for nothing. You were better off without him

He now wants to tax your lane lol

ImmortalBloodCY2 votes

Cant disagree there.

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

So true. Sometimes i even write in the chat after several unheard pings that i don't want any ganks on my lane. Still your supp and jungle comes over and over (midlane talking here) until finally the enemy top, jungle and supp come to kill you three. Yeah thank u that's exactly what i wanted to avoid

Errastas1 votes

As a support, I decide when and if a gank is going to happen in my lane.

ImmortalBloodCY2 votes

As a support i agree with you 100%.

Even if the enemy tries to gank i deny them it.

Long story short, its not our ADC/Jungler or their ADC/Jungler that decides when the ganks will happen but the supports themselves.

SpecterVonBaren5 votes

(Scratches head) As a support main... I disagree with your idea of who should be at the top of the order. During lanning phase I don't care about top or mid unless I have a hunch the enemy laners are going to try and gank bot. I also don't care about the macro of the game,

I already have to keep myself alive, babysit my ADC so they don't get deleted, watch two enemy laners like a hawk and have a way to get me and my ADC out of danger if more enemies come (Which they will since double TP is back in style.... fuck my life). I am not also diverting my attention to the bigger scheme of things when the jungler can just move their camera around the map and hit keys while doing a camp. The jungler is supposed to be the shot caller because they're the one that has the time to pay attention to all three lanes and what's going on in them.

I just want to devote all my energy to keeping my team alive, placing wards, removing wards, and giving instructions on how we should do things in a fight. I don't want nor CAN I direct my team to go for certain objectives, have you ever tried to get the ADC to unglue themselves from the minion wave even while both of you have a lot of gold and are low on mana and/or health?

Leave the marco to the jungler and let me just focus on keeping the team running.

Crowe Stalker3 votes

Proper pecking order: God-Tier Mechanics (Sometimes you'll get that (Thresh LeeSin Zed Vayne or other champion) that just knows what the fuck they are doing down to the single digit ignites. When you see this person, you get on your knees and thank whatever gods will hear you for being paired with them and then you follow them to Valhalla.) Highest Rank (if they feel like it) (Only relevant if it's a league higher. Golds generally have better knowledge/mechanics than Silver, but Silver 3 to Silver 2 is negligible) Tanky Initiator (That one champion like Alistar that just goes in and knocks up four people, you better fucking believe it's time to fight!) Tank (Without a tank that fight's gonna be a lot harder.) Initiator (Nami Ulting is a good sign you should fight...) Roamers (People leaving their lane to come help you fight should be respected) Whoever is taking the initiative unless they are a moron.

Shot Calling Priority by Role: Jungler (They decide what to clear, what order, who needs ganks, what objective can be taken, etc.) Support (Supports are the ones that typically win laning phase and usually the ones with the most vision up. By virtue of knowing how to babysit their ADC and when to go in for a trade, they do have some decent judging ability.) Top (Half of the time it's the Tank, so they generally should be high on this, but sometimes they don't know what the fuck is going on because they were too focused farming. If they Teleport or Roam, they are sacrificing a lot of CS and potentially a lot of tower damage so try to make it worth their time.) Mid (In my experience it's the Mids you can tell when they get fed or when they starve. If Mid's starved, put at bottom. If even, keep here.) ADC (ADCs are hungry for Kills and Glory, always decide when to initiate for them and don't let them do it because if they initiate, then they become a very easy target and then you'll probably lose.)

FearEngineer1 votes

Threw up after the first paragraph and didn't finish reading.

Crowe Stalker2 votes

{quoted}

Threw up after the first paragraph and didn't finish reading.

That's not informative or helpful.

Theiki Kayle2 votes

I disagree on top having higher shotcalling priority than mid. Many mids play as secondary junglers, pushing and roaming (I do this with ASol and Diana for instance, and I've seen most mids roam except if they're something like Xerath), so good mids have good shotcalling simply because of that.

Apart from that, supports and junglers should always call the shots. Especially if one (or both) are initiators as well. You better follow up on Amumu, Sejuani, Leona etc....

Crowe Stalker1 votes

I don't experience it in my matches but I think I should add that in, thanks!

Shadowatom2 votes

I'll be honest and say up front that I don't play mid or top, but mid might roam, but tops also usually have TP (mids can also have it of course), but they also can have initiation, plus they might also be a secondary jungler? (which imo makes sense considering how many tops can also jungle, not sure if this is a fact though).

JRobin311 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jhin n Tonix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=84opoPTR,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2016-05-30T14:17:10.892+0000)

Proper pecking order: God-Tier Mechanics (Sometimes you'll get that (Thresh LeeSin Zed Vayne or other champion) that just knows what the fuck they are doing down to the single digit ignites. When you see this person, you get on your knees and thank whatever gods will hear you for being paired with them and then you follow them to Valhalla.) Highest Rank (if they feel like it) (Only relevant if it's a league higher. Golds generally have better knowledge/mechanics than Silver, but Silver 3 to Silver 2 is negligible) Tanky Initiator (That one champion like Alistar that just goes in and knocks up four people, you better fucking believe it's time to fight!) Tank (Without a tank that fight's gonna be a lot harder.) Initiator (Nami Ulting is a good sign you should fight...) Roamers (People leaving their lane to come help you fight should be respected) Whoever is taking the initiative unless they are a moron.

Shot Calling Priority by Role: Jungler (They decide what to clear, what order, who needs ganks, what objective can be taken, etc.) Support (Supports are the ones that typically win laning phase and usually the ones with the most vision up. By virtue of knowing how to babysit their ADC and when to go in for a trade, they do have some decent judging ability.) Top (Half of the time it's the Tank, so they generally should be high on this, but sometimes they don't know what the fuck is going on because they were too focused farming. If they Teleport or Roam, they are sacrificing a lot of CS and potentially a lot of tower damage so try to make it worth their time.) Mid (In my experience it's the Mids you can tell when they get fed or when they starve. If Mid's starved, put at bottom. If even, keep here.) ADC (ADCs are hungry for Kills and Glory, always decide when to initiate for them and don't let them do it because if they initiate, then they become a very easy target and then you'll probably lose.)

Very nicely put. After all, one does not simply... follow some random dude to Mordor.

Remlap12233 votes

Alüe said it better than I can. The jungler is the shot caller until laning phase ends, then it's a free for all.

Oakleaf Ranger2 votes

Shot caller should be a tank or support and not a carry you say? Have you meet our lord and savior Swain

Hell even his lore calls him the master tactician(IMO the best while having swag). Hail Noxus while our great leader guides us to victory

Athenes Lulu2 votes

Maybe I'm just a gold shitter, though most early game shotcalling is done by the jungler, and the support is pretty much the brains of botlane and maybe bits of dragon control at most.

After lane it's usually the frontline engage doing the shotcalling, though a big part of it are still decided by junglers. Though if anything, yes, people listen to supports anyway even if they're backliners.

And of course, if anything, carries should never be the ones doing shotcalling. Reasons are fairly obvious, and we have seen how shit goes downhill whenever they do.

This is the usual soloQ dynamicQ ways of shotcalling anyways.

Verdade2 votes

If my support plays Naut/Leona/Bard/Alistar i will let them call shots. If they see a good opening their team needs to follow. But if Soraka/Thresh/Janna tries to call shots ill just laugh at them, they're supposed to follow, not lead.

A Liberal3 votes

Actually soraka is one of the best shot callers because having global map awareness isn't just a part of her role but also her kit.

WingsofGulgazor1 votes

I think one of the main reasons soraka is strong in lower elo's is because it's a lot easier to look at the map since 3/4rths of your kit is ulting to turn situations around in the whole map and also soraka tends to stand back in lane in the first place to avoid damage so it makes it even easier since there's nothing else to do especially since in low elo's most adc's are potatoes and don't know how to trade in lane and seem to only know how to all-in or stand a mile away.

dunkeroni2 votes

It's too bad nobody in the lower queues listens to supports summoner 3

Sammystorm2 votes

Most people in lower queues have no idea why or when they should make a call. Supports included.

Beldair1 votes

As a Support Main, this sounds about right.

JVP151 votes

I quite like this. However, I am not the most competent support, and sometimes I get a bit carried away (or distracted, or confused or...) by my bloodlust. It does make sense that a good support will be the one calling the shots. They don't have to worry AS MUCH on csing, but they are concerned about warding and, if need be, helping other/higher gold value teammates. Basically, great post. I love it. You were very informative, and I enjoyed the humor at the very beginning.

LatetotheRace1 votes

As a top main, I find myself calling the shots a lot. It's typically because I win my lane, and can start looking to help elsewhere sooner than anyone else. Also cause I'm up higher than everyone else on the map.

CerealBoxOfDoom2 votes

{quoted}

As a top main, I find myself calling the shots a lot. It's typically because I win my lane, and can start looking to help elsewhere sooner than anyone else. Also cause I'm up higher than everyone else on the map.

its unfortunate but sometimes top has to do supports job.. and the adcs job.. and the midlaners job... and everyones really.

This thread is more about how its really supposed to work but I would also like to stress that reality doesnt always fit. The other point of this is that if you see someone doing a good job providing intel and communications sometimes its better to just help the team by following their calls and deviating only when necessary.

You'll find that some people break from the heard just to measure their dick against a sub par support and claim they are the one to listen to because they have the best kdr or something. As a result the team gets shat on. Because they arent really working together even though they might be in range of one another. Alot of players, especially in lower ELOs could benefit from just being able to let someone else call shots even if they plan to deviate. Typically you want the one with the warding item to handle this.

That awkward moment when the team pings 2 seperate objectives and we can't afford to split up for both. Or when the tank is the first to the enemy tower but the team ignored them and stopped to kill the minions costing them that tower and the following teamfight since they had to go back to being seiged without the bonus gold or map pressure caused by an exposed inhib

LatetotheRace1 votes

Looking for a better tomorrow mate. Maybe... maybe in diamond there will be something for me there... Buuuut until then, I'm stuck making plays until the supports learn what's up. :P Pretty decent post you got here bro. Just throwing my hat into the ring.

DarthSpectrum1 votes

These are solid arguments. I think it would be common sense though that glass cannon carries who need to constantly keep the camera on themselves to avoid danger IS NOT suitable for shot calling.

Tank and Support champions can take the time to assess the team fight or the map to make the most informed decisions. Most ADCs and Mages need to concern themselves with dodging skill shots and avoiding CC so their team don't lose from a good Cocoon or Tempered Fate.

Shadowatom1 votes

This is literally one of the reasons why I question myself as a support main :# I know what to do, but I just don't have the confidence to ask others to do something (unless I know my teammates personally, then it becomes a little better in the form of suggestions/questions).

KitsuneTrickster1 votes

at low elo, they do not listen anyway

Shadowatom1 votes

Still doesn't mean I shouldn't try. It's better to get into good habits now, even if unfruitful just so you can use the skills later when they are important. It'll be frustrating starting out, but I obviously should work on it at least a little bit, right?

White Sky Uzi1 votes

yeah dude supports are the only people who shotcall because in aboveplat they are the best player and know exactly what they are doing

iamthegoatofwar1 votes

the shot caller in the late game is...the initiator. Be it lee, sej, alistar, whoever has start the damn fight is generally your shot caller period.

Der Stechschritt1 votes

I just wait for the hard engage as an ADC player (Barring Ashe)

doodedge1 votes

For a bronze elo range player you sure put a lot of effort into this.... If it was challenger advice or something thats one thing, but maybe you should just watch a couple pros and play the game a little more.

Dataless1 votes

Cannot count the number of times I have saved a new players life while playing support on my lowbie because I'm actually looking at the minimap and can identify a gank before it happens and ping accordingly.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

the game puts you with random people unless your premading with 4 people then its random and anything is possible and its not worth thinking about it.

Soldier of 4Jhin1 votes

Im always the shotcaller

Kill bot get tower go mid kill mid get tower go top kill top get tower boom ever has 900 gold lead gg 3z

Yordlelayhehoo1 votes

As a support main of 5 years i am no stranger to micromanaging a team through shotcalling

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