What ganking/counterjungle/ invade jungler should I learn as someone new to jungle???

CrimsonDawn77·Jan 24, 2017·1 votes·3,509 views

I main mid and adc. My champs are and top. I also sometimes play around with .

As you can see my champs all have solid to immense damage or utility, and usually a mix of both. I like getting kills, having early power, as well as having potential to set things up for my team.

I'm considering learning jungle, as I want to play jungle champs that have strong ganks, map pressure, and can play mind games. I am basically interested in jungle for the strategic play with ganks, invades, counterjungling and mindgaming people. I want to get kills, scare the enemy team, and generally effect the flow of the game to help my team. I'm not interested in farm heavy junglers, because I could just farm and fight actual people in lane.

I am thinking that would be a good choice as he fits that description perfectly, and is famous for being very fun to play and a real clown with his ganks and mind games. THE JOKES ON YOU!!!! XD But he's difficult to play; especially since I'm new to advanced jungle tactics. Shouldn't I start with someone similar but easier? Any suggestions?

25 Comments

EndlessSorcererJan 24, 20172 votes

Rek'sai might be a good option.

While she is great at farming due to her sustain and sustained damage, she can apply a massive amount of map pressure through proper usage of her tunnels, tremor sense and ultimate.

She is especially useful for controlling objectives, ganking and splitpushing due to her ability to rapidly traverse the map.

Nunu is another decent option. While he is rather simple to play, he is great at counter-jungling opponents and depriving them of gold. Consume is great for quickly killing/stealing jungle camps, his bulk makes him rather difficult to kill and his MS buff/slow make him difficult to chase down.

He isn't complex, but he is great for screwing with the enemy jungler.

69469238DEL1Jan 24, 20172 votes

Asking a new jg to start with Reksai isn't good.

EndlessSorcererJan 24, 20172 votes

Rek'sai has all of the qualities requested by the OP.

If you want to focus on the macro-game as a jungler, very few champions are better options than Rek'sai or Nunu.

Obviously, they will have to learn how to jungle properly to use them effectively, but that is a different matter. While using them to their full potential will take a lot of practice, their basic kits are rather straightforward.

CrimsonDawn77Jan 24, 20171 votes

Thanks for helping me with this. I think I might go with Elise or Rek'Sai. I assume that it's a very bad idea to start with Shaco right? Can I be effective enough with Elise or Rek'Sai to carry my own weight, and have some good games, with minimal practice? I plan to watch some vids on the basics, and practice clears before I go into real games. My skill level is mid bronze to very low silver with my usual champs, so I wouldn't be facing anyone super good I would think.

Who is better at invades and ganks between Elise and Rek'Sai?

EndlessSorcererJan 24, 20171 votes

Who is better at invades and ganks between Elise and Rek'Sai?

Elise is better for killing your opponent when invading due to her CC and burst damage. Her CC is less reliable during ganks but her Rapple is great for diving towers since you can change tower aggro.

Rek'sai is better for counter-jungling and tracking opponents due to her Tremor Sense, tunnels and sustain. You have the mobility to quickly traverse the map, the ability to spot anyone approaching and to escape/engage over walls.

I would probably recommend avoiding Elise due to her complexity and poor late-game.

She tends to excel at early pressure due to her high damage, CC and ability to dive towers early but tends to fall off later in the game. While you can secure early leads for your allies and snowball games, this is less reliable if you can't trust your allies to use the lead appropriately.

Games in low ELO tend to draw out since players don't know how to end games, so I'd recommend you pick champions who scale well into the late-game and have simple kits.

If you are low-ELO and just learning the basics of jungling, I'd recommend using a simple champion (i.e. Amumu, Xin Zhao, Volibear) until you get a hang of the basics of jungling.

Nunu and Rek'sai have fairly simple kits but using them appropriately takes experience and practice. That said, if you are primarily interested in playing the macro-game as a jungler, they are often two of the best options available for controlling objectives and counter-jungling.

If you are looking for basic jungling tips, I do have some pre-written tips.

I would suggest watching videos by high-ELO and/or professional junglers (i.e. Valkrin, Meteos, Stonewall008, Nightblue3, and FoxdropLOL). They will typically provide a lot of useful tips while playing and you can often see or hear their decision process and some optimizations throughout the game.

Off the top of my head, some basic optimizations may be:

Use hard-CC when the monster camps are about to attack you to cancel that attack and delay their next.
Attack Speed is extremely efficient at clearing on most junglers. I'd recommend using about 15% on champions when you need to speed up their clear even if they don't use the stat much later (with a few exceptions, such as Nidalee and Evelynn).
Keep a control ward out (or in your inventory) whenever possible. This is important for every champion, but I thought I should emphasis it. There isn't really a good reason not to.

As far as ganking is concerned:

When possible, conserve your gap-closer while ganking. If you can get to the enemy champion without using your mobility spell(s), then you can save it to catch them after they try to escape (Flash, dash, blink, etc).
You should should try to stay between the enemy and their escape route. You should be trying to move backwards (towards their escape) in-between attacks so that you can body-block them and slow their escape. This also leaves you closer to them if they try to dash or blink past you.
It can be risky to gank top-lane while Dragon is up since the enemy team can just group and take it 4v3. I'd recommend ganking top-lane early if possible (after your initial clear) and when Dragon is down; that lane can be quite snowbally due to isolation, so you want to get your ally ahead.
Learn to recognize the general times when buff camps spawn during games. If you see the enemy gank bottom lane while their top-side buff is up, you can go steal it from them.
Watch when top and bottom lane initially go into lane. If that lane has leashed for their jungler (missing health, mana, or showed up to lane a bit late), then you know where the enemy jungler has likely started and where they will end their clear (where is closest for them to gank).
If you have killed the enemy laner, you can either allow your laner to freeze or shove the lane into the enemy tower. If you shove the wave under tower and the next minion wave is coming up, it can be helpful to proxy it to ensure that the wave fully resets and the enemy laner misses as much as possible. This is very situational though and you will have to learn when through experience.

Other tips:

Whenever possible, walk up to the enemy champion during a gank and save your gap-closer for after they use their escape abilities.
Watch the enemy laners when they go into lane. Whichever lane shows up later and/or missing mana will likely indicate which side of the jungle the enemy jungler started on (which is useful for predicting gank paths and for counter-jungling).
Watch the minimap to see when and where the enemy goes to ward, which laners are pushing, which laners are vulnerable
Know, roughly, how most laning matchups go so that you can prioritize which lanes are the easiest to gank or require an early gank to decide the matchup.
If you have blown an enemy's Flash during a gank but haven't killed them, swing back around immediately after an gank them again. Many people don't expect it
If you've killed an enemy during a previous gank in top lane, kill them again immediately after they return to lane. They likely won't have wards up yet and a second back-to-back death can be enough to completely crush any chance that opponent has to recover the lane.
Top laners rarely bother warding the lane bushes. As such, lane ganks can be quite surprising and effective.
When you kill an enemy laner, shove the minion wave into the tower so they miss gold and experience and so that the minion wave will reset to the middle of the lane. If you can get away with it, clear the upcoming minion wave as well to ensure the reset and maximum missed minions.

You will learn a lot through experience, but these tips should help you at the start.

CrimsonDawn77Jan 24, 20171 votes

What is the issue with Elise's complexity? Is it jungle related or just her abilities/mechanics? I can play lane Nidalee, Ahri, and LB so I would think that learning to use her abilities wouldn't be super difficult.

midnight oil24Jan 24, 20171 votes

Oh, she's insane. She's got six basic abilities and you have to switch between them so that you can deal maximum damage while handling her squishiness and the fact that she needs to get close to finish the enemy.

Don't play her if you're new to the jungle. It's like throwing a baby goat into a pack of hungry wolves.

CrimsonDawn77Jan 24, 20171 votes

Is playing Shaco as a noob to the jungle also a definite terrible idea?

midnight oil24Jan 25, 20171 votes

Oh probably. He's got invisibility and you have to monitor his boxes, it's all sorts of crazy. I recommend Vi, Zac, or new Warwick to learn jungle.

CrimsonDawn77Jan 25, 20171 votes

Is she really that bad to learn? It didn't take me that long to become good with Syndra, Nidalee, and LeBlanc. They all have abilities that have to be timed and utilized in the correct order and ways in different situations, and are they all die super easily if you mess up. Nidalee also has to get super close to execute ppl but dies instantly if you make a bad play.

If I was to learn Elise's mechanics by playing against bots and say vs ppl on twisted treeline to the point where combat mechanics and ability usage wasn't a big issue for me wouldn't I then be okay to use her on the rift? It seems to me that if I did that it would be okay and worth while as I'd be using a champ that I really like and has lots of potential.

Or is there something about combining difficult to fight with champs with jungling that makes them extra difficult that I'm not understanding cuz I don't play jungle?

midnight oil24Jan 25, 20171 votes

She's just a hard champ to play. If you want to play her, go ahead, but I still recommend new WW. She's got six abilites which need to be timed right and you don't have a gapcloser that doesn't have a risk of getting you killed.

yourmother671Jan 24, 20171 votes

I know you don't have these champs, but Zac and Camille to me are great choices for you outside the usual jg picks. They both have sustain in their kits for the jg, and are good for 1v1, having some mobility, and surprising lanes with Zac's leap and Camille's hookshot. For similar reasons, Khazix would also be a good pick.

I'd say that the mind tricks and having fun in the jg is just knowing what you can and can't do with a champ, and knowing the enemy jungler's position and exploiting positions of lanes.

yourmother671Jan 24, 20171 votes

Jg is fun just by it's nature of being mysterious and unknown, and your power to change the tide of any lane you choose

69469238DEL1Jan 24, 20171 votes

Play Master Yi, he's a great champion because he rewards good decision making, so you'll improve as a player.

DolasaurJan 24, 20171 votes

General starting jungle advice:

Regardless of your champion, make sure you can clear your camps competently. Practice in custom games. There are times where you won't be able to gank any lanes, and you should still be making yourself useful by getting more gold in that time. At the very least, make sure you're able to do either one full jungle clear, or get to the point where you go back to buy your first item (on champs that can't do a full clear). You're never guaranteed to get a leash in game, so you should be able to do it on your own when you need to.

Counterjungling / invading is fairly advanced. It's high risk, ??? reward. You need to have a good idea of what's important in the jungle through personal experience (and probably getting counterjungled) before you should try it yourself. Because even if you don't get caught, a lot of the time the camp you kill will respawn before the enemy jungler even sees it, or you'll spend so much time running through their jungle that the enemy jungler has ganked twice in the time it took you to steal wolves.

Champ choice:

For learning, you should make sure you have a jungler that can do somewhat reasonable ganks at level 3. (old Warwick, Nocturne, Shyvana, and Master Yi are all champs that have no CC, no gap closer, or are missing both, until level 6.) You said you want to make an early impact, so that's a good fit, lol.

Kills, early power, and setting things up for your team sounds like Lee Sin, Xin Zhao, Vi, and Elise. Shaco can get kills in lots of ways, but he lacks the CC to do much setup (until/unless you are veeeeeery good with your jack-in-the-boxes).

Depending on how weak you are to teammates calling for specific team comps, I'd also recommend learning a jungle tank (read: Amumu/Sejuani/Gragas/Zac). They play fairly similarly, and they all can pull off decent ganks at level 3. They then also have great disruption influence when they hit 6, similar to Ori and Zyra that you said you play. None of them are going to be getting the kills themselves. But Zac especially has healthy clears and very strong early ganks. (I mean, when he's not meta, that's the reason you pick Zac: he's the tank jungler with extreme range on his ganks.)

Edit: But of course, the most important part is having fun. So as long as you choose a remotely meta jungler (like Shaco) and stick to it, you'll learn a ton!

Edit2: I guess I should look at the newly updated Warwick. Changing references to mention "old".

midnight oil24Jan 24, 20171 votes

Just noting that WW now has a gap closer. And a bigger speed buff.

Great read though, very well written.

jinxedchefJan 24, 20171 votes

I think Shyvana is a good jungler to start with. You are strong enough to protect yourself in jungle, you can counter jungler very well. However your ganks are sub par. I mostly try to off set this by warding and going for counter ganks when I can.

woodvsmurphJan 25, 20171 votes

Amumu if you want to just ff jungle with the occasional lane gank/counter-gank before lvl 6 and then teamfight -- fits your cc/utility heavy champs' playstyle. He's decent in the jungle and has great team play potential after lvl 6. He's also tanky enough to be forgiving. LeeSin is always solid if you have decent mechanics. He's strong early both for ganking and for counter-jungling. Since you play ahri, you have some ability with skillshots and being able to pick the right engages because you can't 100 to 0 someone as ahri if you miss your skills or fall too far behind. Udyr Volibear both good because very tanky early on, have decent cc and engage if your teammate also has some cc -- gank when the enemy is shoved up and enjoy burning a flash or getting an easy kill. Very simple to learn champs; not necessarily easy to master, but easy to learn enough to be effective unless very high rank. XinZhao great champ to play if you want to gank or invade early. You don't have escapes, so make sure you are not going to get ganged up on, but you win a lot of 1v1 via grasp or fervor. You can go full tank with just 1 damage item or full damage with 1 tank item or anywhere in between depending on how game is going. Basically like a master yi or shyvana early/mid game except with more hard cc. You don't even need lifesteal to drain tank like others do because your w heals you every 3rd hit.

Rengar, kha, shyv, rek'sai, evelyn are decent options, but either harder to learn to be good at or not the best for invades and/or ganks early on.

CrimsonDawn77Jan 25, 20171 votes

I am bronze 3 despite me playing Jhin in my placements with smurphs, terrible autofill supports who forget to ult etc. My skill level is probably around bronze 2 - Silver 4. I've also been told that by ppl. So the good news is that I probably won't be vs many people who are very adept at taking advantage of my mistakes etc.

Is just going straight for Shaco a terrible idea? or with a bit of practice can I be moderately effective at this low elo?

woodvsmurphJan 25, 20171 votes

I think shaco can be great at low elo and is OK for a new jungler.. just he's so different from most other junglers and also requires you to be proactive and is difficult to pull off if the enemy groups mid/late game and has a similar power level as your team. For these 2 reasons I think it is better to grab a jungler who has a substitute with a similar playstyle on the off chance they ban shaco. Ex: xin, shyv, yi all play similarly; vi and ww play similarly. Hopefully that gives you an idea what I am trying to say. But definitely try shaco out and play him if you like him, just remember you have to be proactive - gank, counter-jungle intelligently; you win duels skirmishes via trickery rather than raw stats. You win games via splitting up enemy teammates and assassinating one or two before forcing objectives and towers 4v3 or 5v3. I think most people either have the right mentality for eve and shaco or they don't. If you do, you can be a nightmare, if not, you will look even worse than you would on a tankier champ with some cc all else being equal.

CrimsonDawn77Jan 25, 20171 votes

Is wukong a good option? He's got similar ish clone mechanics, but seems to have more tanky ness, and is simpler to fight with.

woodvsmurphJan 25, 20171 votes

I am no jungle genius, just a top main jungle second -- former support main with a few years of experience to back me up compared to the average low rank player. Sure wu and a ton of others are decent champs to try in jungle; key thing is to practice a champ in pve and in "normal" games until you really understand how the champ works best and how to play in different matchups. Ex: what if their jungler is weak vs what if he/she is strong and likes to counter-jungle me and has a lead? Should I gank this squishy in a short lane or the tank/bruiser in the long lane (top) and HOW? I feel like the traps most low rank junglers fall into is:

ff too much -- if the enemy jungler is constantly ganking every lane or 1 lane in particular, make sure you help gank and WARD for your laners even if you are not lvl 6 yet and your jungler typically doesn't gank pre-lvl 6.
Pick a meta jungler with 0 clue as to why it is meta and how to play it. Just because some pro made rengar look unkillable doesn't mean you can run around 1v1'ing everyone with no clue what you are doing.
Camp a lane with 0 kill pressure. If you lack the damage or cc to solo kill and your laner doesn't provide the missing piece (damage or cc whichever you need more of) you should pick a different lane. If your laner is feeding HARD and is not being camped, you are wasting your time and putting yourself behind.
Don't gank a winning lane or a lane that is going even while getting 2v1 camped by the enemy jungle. Why would you not gank this lane? If your teammate is practically winning a 1v2, imagine how easy it would be if you made it a 2v2. Snowball you, snowball the laner, they won't be mad at you for ff jungle while they are being camped, and you shut down 2 enemies for the price of 1. Also, you probably got your laner far enough ahead they CAN win 1v2 now -- giving you a 4v3 on rest of map -- yay.
Patience and pathing. You can gank via lane, river, or enemy jungle -- you don't always have to go through river. This will decrease chance you get spotted by enemy wards if you mix things up. Also, if they are overextended who cares if you are spotted? If you have the cc and damage, you can kill them anyways -- don't be afraid to burn flash at start of gank to land the cc and let your laner follow up with more damage and cc -- but only if they are committed to the kill too. Wait 15 sec -- the enemy jungler who has been camping the lane will show, and you can finally give your teammate a 2v2 instead of a 1v2; or give your teammate a 2v1 vs the enemy who is now overextended now that your teammate's ability is no longer on cd. Because ganking a zed 4 sec before he has ult back up or a renek or blitz that doesn't have their cc available for 3 more sec can mean you miss out on a kill you would have if you just waited a few seconds.
engage -- your laner doesn't always need to start off the engage. If the laner and his/her opponent are both low, it's better if you tank the initial damage and cc and let your laner follow up on your damage and cc.
tilt - just because a laner pings you to back off or indicates he/she doesn't want you to gank (right now) doesn't mean you should never gank them again. Maybe they don't have the time to communicate and it was simply that they knew you'd be walking into a 2v2 when they are too low to help, maybe their spell(s) are on cd or they really need to shop, or they will miss more minions than what they would gain in gold for killing the enemy.
jungle time -- watch your teammates and see, some spam ping for help when it is not needed, others (like me) ping or type for ganks only for 2 reasons -- they need your help RIGHT NOW (don't start 1 more camp before coming to help; it will be too late), or they know with minor help they can snowball via kills/towers (sure you can get a kill in another lane or a bit more cs initially, but if you help them, you will unlock them to start snowballing their lane and carrying that pressure to other lanes to help them win harder than you could do by ganking a different lane... or give you good access to deep vision and counter-jungling in enemy jungle by their lane that they cannot quite secure without you helping them out).

Sorry I ramble.

CrimsonDawn77Jan 26, 20171 votes

lol thanks for rambling. It was actually helpful so thanks

AlienPrimateJan 25, 20171 votes

I would say nautilus. He has:

Basically infinite sustain with his shield.

Arguably the strongest ganks in the game with a snare, hook, slow, and knockup with good base damages. He van also dive pretty early in the game with is shield active.

He can pretty safely invade always being at full health. He is also a pretty strong duelist early game and can hook the walls of the jungle for a quick get away if he gets into trouble.

He can be the tank that he is meant to be as well as carry pretty hard if needed by building RoA and liandry's.