Let's put this to rest once and for all.
And the few people who pointed to his w nerf on the pbe, surrender@20 updated and noted that it's likely a bug and not an intentional change.
Ornn's changes worked counterproductively and he needs something more for losing his shield and therefore any and all trading power he had top lane.
boricCentaur11 voteslol stop looking at only his winrate his play rate went from 1% to 6% and his banrate also went up like he is doing better then before.
On My Kill List1 voteslol stop looking at only his winrate his play rate went from 1% to 6% and his banrate also went up like he is doing better then before.
that might be because more people are playing him since he received changes? maybe those people are just testing him out? kinda means nothing tbh since play rates and ban rates go up whenever a champion receives big changes of any kind. then die off like a week or two later.
boricCentaur11 votes[{quoted}](name=On My Kill List,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kgXnnI2z,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-01-11T23:37:01.473+0000)
that might be because more people are playing him since he received changes? maybe those people are just testing him out? kinda means nothing tbh since play rates and ban rates go up whenever a champion receives big changes of any kind. then die off like a week or two later.
Very true that could be it.
Illabethe1 voteslol stop looking at only his winrate his play rate went from 1% to 6% and his banrate also went up like he is doing better then before.
His play rate is going to go back to 1% Fast. He literally doesn't have a laning phase right now. I've tried it. Literally the entire top lane counters him right now until he's level 13. He's pretty much an ult using secondary support right now until he gets ahold of better items.
His ban rate only went up marginally, and because people consider the "risk" of free 1000g upgrades to be high, even though it's only post level 13-14.
I have over 2.3 million combined Mastery on Ornn. He has never felt worse in lane. He's feeling "okay" at late game (Only annoying thing is hunting down your allies to upgrade them, and even then, the upgrade is their first upgradeable item, so if they have them out of order, you'll upgrade the wrong item).
If you W, it's a .75 second window for your opponent to just punish you while you can't react. Q Slow doesn't slow enough now to really counter strong top's aggression. E is suicidal if used for anything but knocking up under your own turret, because you don't have enough followup.
Tychusfindlay9181 votesHis play rate is going to go back to 1% Fast. He literally doesn't have a laning phase right now. I've tried it. Literally the entire top lane counters him right now until he's level 13. He's pretty much an ult using secondary support right now until he gets ahold of better items.
His ban rate only went up marginally, and because people consider the "risk" of free 1000g upgrades to be high, even though it's only post level 13-14.
I have over 2.3 million combined Mastery on Ornn. He has never felt worse in lane. He's feeling "okay" at late game (Only annoying thing is hunting down your allies to upgrade them, and even then, the upgrade is their first upgradeable item, so if they have them out of order, you'll upgrade the wrong item).
If you W, it's a .75 second window for your opponent to just punish you while you can't react. Q Slow doesn't slow enough now to really counter strong top's aggression. E is suicidal if used for anything but knocking up under your own turret, because you don't have enough followup.
The only use I've seen for E in lane phase is to try and NOPE away from an all-in.
On My Kill List1 votesi believe they need to make his skills less delayed. if he can't have his shield and the safety alongside it he shouldn't have such huge delays on his damage. if they want him to be less tanky and more bursty and therefore squishy they need to give him the lowered delays that come alongside that. he can't have tank delays while lacking a tanks safety. his e could be changed to just a small knockup upon hitting an enemy champ but a larger one upon hitting a wall or his pillar,longer range more dmg lowered cd. his q should do something else too. not sure what tbh. maybe some sort of debuff effect that reduces dmg taken from targets? by like 30-40% for 2-3 seconds. larger aoe , larger slow percent late but weaker early. or just remove the slow from it and turn it into a damage skill? honestly riot probably should've given him a full rework rather then a mini after removing his shield. champions who lose core mechanics shouldn't be lazily changed.
Illabethe1 votes[{quoted}](name=On My Kill List,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kgXnnI2z,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-11T23:36:03.123+0000)
i believe they need to make his skills less delayed. if he can't have his shield and the safety alongside it he shouldn't have such huge delays on his damage. if they want him to be less tanky and more bursty and therefore squishy they need to give him the lowered delays that come alongside that. he can't have tank delays while lacking a tanks safety. his e could be changed to just a small knockup upon hitting an enemy champ but a larger one upon hitting a wall or his pillar,longer range more dmg lowered cd. his q should do something else too. not sure what tbh. maybe some sort of debuff effect that reduces dmg taken from targets? by like 30-40% for 2-3 seconds. larger aoe , larger slow percent late but weaker early. or just remove the slow from it and turn it into a damage skill? honestly riot probably should've given him a full rework rather then a mini after removing his shield. champions who lose core mechanics shouldn't be lazily changed.
They did remove some of the action time on E and R.
His problem is now he can't trade in a lane. He still is viable late game in a team. The problem is getting there.
Tahminatrix 1 votesThey took away his shield and gave him a useless 10% bonus resistance buff that does nothing against true damage (or anything similar like darius e / yasuo r % armor ignore.
Riot cant even comprehend how useless resistance is compared to shields, lol, but that might be the point since the damage and item upgrade buffs might have needed something to compensate.
Moody P1 votesornn's playstyle will change massively with no shield, give it a little longer before we make a conclusion
Illabethe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kgXnnI2z,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-01-11T23:46:17.898+0000)
ornn's playstyle will change massively with no shield, give it a little longer before we make a conclusion
Playstyle changes aren't going to solve his lane problem. He doesn't have a place in Top lane now. He can't trade with anyone anymore, because of how W works, the reduced Q slow. That makes it near impossible to effectively farm.
If he had a lane phase, he'd probably be okay. His late game feels fine.
Death by Glamour1 votespardon my ignorance as I don't play ornn but wont his basic combo stay the same simply so he can get his damage off?
Moody P1 votesi mean in the sense that you won't be able to trade with little risk, meaning you'll have to be smarter about when you use your stuff to win lane
of course maybe riot intended for ornn to not win lane
Tychusfindlay9181 votes[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kgXnnI2z,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2019-01-12T00:20:36.816+0000)
i mean in the sense that you won't be able to trade with little risk, meaning you'll have to be smarter about when you use your stuff to win lane
of course maybe riot intended for ornn to not win lane
If their intention was for ornn to simply not win lane, then he should scale harder than he currently does. His passive should be 20% bonus armor and MR from all sources. IF their intention was for him to get shat on in lane.