This is why people fear updates, Riot.
Your team cannot let stuff like this happen.
Stashu was doing great with response and feedback reception at first. Now its like he's dropped off the face of the earth, and 6.9 is right around the corner.
Lauchmelder15 votesAnd "everyone" is on the PBE right? Let's get something straight here. Just because people saw a rework doesn't mean they understand how the new kit will feel like.
"Skarner is so weak, please buff him Riot." - Community before the Skarner rework was released. "Skarner so OP." - Community after Riot listened to them and Skarner got buffed.
WoonStruck15 votesAnd that means that Stashu not being receptive to feedback for the past week is a good thing? Is that what you're saying?
Regardless of whether or not the players are right, he should still be responsive, especially if there's any discontent.
Skarner is not an excuse for what's currently happening. Skarner was a case of people not knowing how to utilize the champion. He's very simple, but has a lot of gameplay depth.
Vlad is very simple and DOESN'T have a lot of gameplay depth. If he feels terrible, he's probably terrible.
Also, keep in mind it isn't "feels weak". Its "feels terrible". Numbers cannot fix his current issues.
They made him less consistent, weaker, etc. All without even addressing his previous issues, which is lack of a self-enabling kit. They could have thrown a slow on his ult (we all know eve is getting a total rework, so don't even comment on that) so that he's actually a usable champion. They could have even just made his Q MS buff last as long as his CD (GASP, BENEFIT FOR NOT BUYING CDR?!), or even given it a decent %MS bonus. Instead its got a pathetic .5 second duration, and a pathetic value to go along with it...before his Q is even off CD.
Lauchmelder4 votesAnd who exactly said that he isn't receptive to feedback? Does he have to respond to every goddamn thread made about a champ getting a rework? Yea right.
WoonStruck3 votesIts called Vlad's PBE threat that Stashu started. He was great about communication at first, was discussing stuff with players, then completely dropped off. No response in a week, despite players still giving feedback on what's good and what needs improving.
Big Lincoln10 voteswelcome to the stashu treatment 
Poske9 votes[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kdHWbkeP,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-04-29T14:59:47.238+0000)
And "everyone" is on the PBE right? Let's get something straight here. Just because people saw a rework doesn't mean they understand how the new kit will feel like.
"Skarner is so weak, please buff him Riot." - Community before the Skarner rework was released. "Skarner so OP." - Community after Riot listened to them and Skarner got buffed.
Who the fk is happy with skarner rework none Who the fk is happy with mordekaiser rework none Who the fk is happy with garen rework none..
In all those cases its minority
Mordekaiser was ruined for morde mains Garen was not changed like at all garen mains do still like him but he gained 0 new players and he is still Noob friendly weak shit And skarner got some shiny rocks which make no sense
DeathBurst1 votesGaren isn't and wasn't weak. Noob friendly, sure, but if you think it's weak, you're out-of-your-mind. The rework did change him a bit, and I know at least one guy who was a Diamond Garen main pre-rework and who doesn't like the rework. I, on the other hand, like it quite a bit.
Most Mordekaiser mains I talked with complained a lot after the rework, but are relatively happy with his current state, now that he can use W in solo-lanes.
My point is: you're uttering general statements without any beginning of evidence, stop ranting for no good reason.
Poske1 votesGaren isn't and wasn't weak. Noob friendly, sure, but if you think it's weak, you're out-of-your-mind. The rework did change him a bit, and I know at least one guy who was a Diamond Garen main pre-rework and who doesn't like the rework. I, on the other hand, like it quite a bit.
Most Mordekaiser mains I talked with complained a lot after the rework, but are relatively happy with his current state, now that he can use W in solo-lanes.
My point is: you're uttering general statements without any beginning of evidence, stop ranting for no good reason.
You can be diamond by maining any champion in game But you cant be master tier doing that
Thats why garen is considered noob friendly champion. Unless you know master tier garen.. HINT YOU DONT i think I made my point oh and weak servers dont count
yeah you can play mordekaiser in toplane with that 42% winrate... You would get flamed mate
I didnt expect people would want evidence.. its obvious
DeathBurst1 votesLol, "weak servers"... Way to go, chum, now i'm sure to trust your words...
And Mordekaiser winrate is not significant, given his current playrate. The few people who know how to play him have decent success with it.
And if you can reach Diamond with some champ, this champ is not so weak. Diamond is like what, top 2% of all players?
Poske2 votesLol, "weak servers"... Way to go, chum, now i'm sure to trust your words...
And Mordekaiser winrate is not significant, given his current playrate. The few people who know how to play him have decent success with it.
And if you can reach Diamond with some champ, this champ is not so weak. Diamond is like what, top 2% of all players?
-.- If you can reach master tier with a champion then that champion is not weak
There are no garen players diamond1 + above
Mordekaiser is not hard to play and judging by what I saw even the morde mains HAVE NO FKING IDEA WHAT THEY ARE DOING since they never control their clone simulteniosly
And yes weak servers do not count If someone is master tier in russia he is diamond in EU
Vistha Kai7 votesSkarner was an example of mismanagement and miscommunication.
Community said "He's got a rock and because of it he's underwhelming without it". In short what Riot did was buffing his base stats, which made him utterly broken near spires.
Was it what the community wanted? Yes, because they wanted a change. No, because that wasn't the change that was needed.
Saying it's only because of players' feedback, is plain stupid.
Voluug132 votesSkarner was overbuffed like 5 minutes before they released the patch, along with most juggernauts.
They didnt gave people enough time to figure out how strong the buffs were before they were shipped off to live in a rush.
WitchQueen Annie1 votesSkarner was overbuffed like 5 minutes before they released the patch, along with most juggernauts.
They didnt gave people enough time to figure out how strong the buffs were before they were shipped off to live in a rush.
so procrastination is not just a high school thing?
Voluug131 votesLOL
I can tell you it isnt, and actually, game developers and any ''non-formal'' company are extremely susceptible to it.
WitchQueen Annie8 votesI just don't understand how anyone can conceptually justify lowering damage AND sustain ALL ACROSS THE BOARD (on every single ability for goodness sakes) at a time when Spell Vamp (which is critical to his kit) is getting removed.
Like this is COMMON SENSE. HOW can this NOT be an obvious No No? It's like they hate Vladimir.
DeathBurst4 votesYou have empoweredQ every other Q, and normal-Q+empowered-Q is stronger than 2 x old-Q. Plus, you gain a heal scaling with %MissingHP.
E deals more damage than before
R now heals.
Your statement is factually wrong....
WoonStruck2 votes
- You have empoweredQ every other Q, and normal-Q+empowered-Q is stronger than 2 x old-Q. Plus, you gain a heal scaling with %MissingHP.
After you factor in the 25% CD nerf (effectively 25% cut to damage/healing before other changes), no, old Q was stronger.
The %missing HP ratio is terrible unless you go full ap, in which case your E is WAY WAY worse than before due to lack of HP.
- E deals more damage than before
Relative to the cost, it does WAY less. Higher CD, triple or more HP cost, no healing amp. Out-damages your healing drastically if you want E to deal significant damage (not just the risk/reward factor).
- R now heals.
And lost a significant portion of its damage/utility.
Your statement is factually wrong....
Try again. The only thing he gained was faster scaling on his E (strong at lvl 9 now), since its effectively a 1 point wonder now. They even nerfed his W damage, of all things.
DeathBurst2 votesIf you think a heal in %MissingHealth needs a scaling at all, you don't understand how it works...
Vlad sustain is indubitably higher post-rework, and his damage has probably been nerfed a little, but not as much as you make it sound. His reliability in lane has been reduced quite a bit, granted, but his base stats have also been buffed, and his team-fight potential is as high as ever.
WoonStruck4 votesHis %HP starts at 5%, scaling with 2.5% AP.
So yeah, when they have 5-150%(extreme circumstance w/ ult) on a pretty low CD (Illaoi), 15% base with a cleanse (GP), or 12-36% missing health...yeah. You're leaving out a huge part of the picture.
DeathBurst2 votesAt this point, just go back and check your numbers... It's 5% by default, even with 0AP, on a 18-10 s CD. Of course if you forget half his kit, it looks pretty weak...
(As a side note, I believe each tentacle heals only 1 time, if it hits at least a champ, it's not per champion hit, so you never reach 150%. May be wrong, not the point here.)
WoonStruck1 votesUnless they changed it
Vladimir gains a burst of speed and for the next 2.5 seconds Transfusion deals 100% increased damage and heals for an additional 50+15/lvl plus (0.025)AP % of his missing health.
And for Illaoi
Tentacles deal bonus damage and restore 5% of her missing health for every enemy champion they hit.
DeathBurst1 votesWell, from http://www.surrenderat20.net/p/current-pbe-balance-changes.html
heals for an additional 40 + 15 per level plus 5% (+.025 AP)% of his missing health
(And for Illaoi, I believe there is an error on the wikia, the in-game tooltip is "whenever a tentacle damage a champion", so it's quite ambiguous, and I think I tried it shortly after she was released. But I don't really care and I have no time to actually check right now.)
WoonStruck3 votesI often find the in-game tooltips are less accurate than the wiki.
The wording in tooltips is often misleading, mistyped, or improperly scripted.
DeathBurst1 votesHey, follow up.
Regarding Vlad, the version that shipped on 6.9 seems to actually have a base value for the %MissingHP Heal. It was still too weak and got an hotfix buff, so I guess I was wrong about "%MissingHP don't need scalings anyway", but at least my data were accurate ^^'
Regarding Illaoi, my data were accurate too. After the current change on PBE, there has been discussion about her on Reddit, and ricklessabandon confirmed the heal worked like I thought (and that there is an error on the wikia):
illaoi doesn't gain any additional healing benefits from tentacles that hit multiple champions on live or on the pbe—her healing spikes up based on the number of tentacles that hit at least one champion, not the number of champion hits scored by all tentacles.
You can check the rest of the discussion here: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/4il9w6/59_pbe_update/d2z496m
Cheers
Karma Deified8 votesIsn't that the guy that ruined Cass? Makes sense.
DeathBurst7 votesWe must have not read the same thread if you think "everyone" says that new Vlad feels terrible. I've seen many comments complimenting Stashu about the rework, and I'd even say that the most well written comment with constructive feedback were more on the positive side. Of course there has been a few people ranting about "you killed my main", but they were not exactly convincing...
WoonStruck2 votesOf course its a hyperbole. Arguing that isn't a good counter-point.
The kit still has all of the old issues Vlad had without doing anything to fix them. Meanwhile, they make his kit less reliable.
Only people who previously played Vlad will recognize that, and they all think it feels terrible. He needs usability buffs.
The fact that all of the positive feedback says 'he feels powerful' shows you how wrong things are. He ate nerfs everywhere while he was already one of the weakest champions in the game.
Boswick3 votesAs a vlad player, although i dont have pbe, on paper it seems like they addressed a lot of his issues. His big problems imo were kiteability and being a shit laner early game. They gave him a slow on his e plus an ms boost on his q for problem one, and the 3 stack q for problem 2. From what ive seen Q3 and fully charged E hit pretty damn hard.
Yes they nerfed his ap ratios across the board, but they buffed the Hp to AP conversion on his passive and gave his e an hp ratio. Rushing the new blink dagger item into rylais looks really strong.
Cenobite Azaziel7 votesThis is why people fear updates, Riot.
Your team cannot let stuff like this happen.
Stashu was doing great with response and feedback reception at first. Now its like he's dropped off the face of the earth, and 6.9 is right around the corner.
Same modus operandi with cassiopeia. Ok this is the rework. "This is awful". Ok will fix it. Someday =] And solo queue is coming.
The Sword Saint5 votesMaybe he's busy working on those problems everyone apparently keeps bringing up, but doesn't want to commit to saying anything in case they decide to go live without any changes.
WitchQueen Annie5 votesThe new Vlad IS terrible.
The numbers are so bad and the counterplay to his Q completely ruins him (people will literally just walk away when the give-away Crimson Rush procs and you will lose more than half of your damage).
This ''rework'' is nothing short of a big Overkill-Nerf to a champion that already had less than 50% win rate.
''Let's introduce Counterplay Windows to a champ that used to be fun to play by making him unreliable, and taking away his damage and sustain... even though he isn't Meta and has less than 50% win rate.''
Hayaishi28 votesThe new Vlad IS terrible.
The numbers are so bad and the counterplay to his Q completely ruins him (people will literally just walk away when the give-away Crimson Rush procs and you will lose more than half of your damage).
This ''rework'' is nothing short of a big Overkill-Nerf to a champion that already had less than 50% win rate.
''Let's introduce Counterplay Windows to a champ that used to be fun to play by making him unreliable, and taking away his damage and sustain... even though he isn't Meta and has less than 50% win rate.''
More like, let's add counterplay to a champion that becomes pick/ban whenever the meta favors him because of how much little interaction his kit has.
WoonStruck4 votesHe was never pick/ban. He was a common pick at one point, and that's it.
Outside of that, in solo queue, it was always people not knowing how to play against him because hardly anyone ever sees him. That's why he was 'banned'. He was never actually strong enough to warrant a ban. Even in the pro scene, it was only after a foolish E buff (the one place you don't want to buff him) that he became popular for 1v2 lanes. Outside of that, it was always a targeted ban, usually against Dyrus.
Besides, you can't honestly tell me people would rather play against Quinn than Vlad. Where's the interaction there?
Vlad, no matter how strong he is, lacks a self-enabling kit. Even if he's massively fed, all he can be is a "do not engage on us" threat. Zone control. That's it. Its all on the enemy to make him powerful. Almost none of it is in the Vlad's hands, and that's where his issue lay. That's what should have been fixed BEFORE they added counterplay.
Also, what's wrong with low-interaction? Do people complain about Vayne, Trist, Teemo, etc for 'low interaction'? No, people complain about Vayne for her true damage, Trist for her damage/safety, Teemo for his shrooms/blind...
If they were to get a total rework to include more 'counterplay' I bet people would throw a fit on these boards, rather than acting like you are because you're misinformed.
DeathBurst3 votesWell, what you described is basically all Juggernauts and most Battle Mages life. What are you supposed to do with Garen/Darius if the enemy refuses to fight? It's a bit better for Cho'Gath/Swain because they have one half-decent CC at long range, but it's still basically the same. They need a Vanguard/Diver to initiate, or the enemy team to be foolish and come into their range.
Vlad is the same because he belongs to the same class of champ. That's not an issue, it's just normal. But with the rework, his laning phase is so much healthier.
WoonStruck2 votesExcept Ryze, Karthus, etc all have ways to enable their kit. Ranged CC/significant MS buff on Ryze. Ryze still needs Stormraider's Surge to get around...what does that say about Vlad? Ranged slow/shred + passive + R on Karth.
Vlad has none of these things. His new Q doesn't even quality as a buff. It makes up for the cast animation. It doesn't help with his usability at all.
Rockm Sockm5 votesOn the pre,players stand still to get hit by everything. If you watch match with Vladimir vrs someone with half a brain, he becomes a joke.
Nerf on passive.
Q Nerf is huge based on old cds and scaling. Empowered Q has incredibly small window which everyone can easily see and wait 2 seconds out of range. Requires a minion wave to reliably heal yourself to get Q off.
His E is the only body blocked charged ability in the game and is the easiest one to dodge. People simply move 5 feet back during its extremely telegraphed charge or stand behind 1 minion.
Honestly, they added tons of counterplay for people playing against him. They gave people playing nothing. You basically have to hope they are terrible.
New Vladimir is just gonna be a low elo noobstomper.
WoonStruck3 votesAgain, numbers don't matter. Its his usability, which didn't go up. It went down.
He's made less reliable without anything being added to let him access his kit against any competent players.
The net nerfs, while disappointing, can be changed through number tuning.
However, Riot will find that he will either be overwhelming or underwhelming at any given state of balance with this rework, just like the old one.
His kit needs accessibility buffs to go with the reliability nerfs. Q was a great opportunity, but blood rush ultimately falls flat, considering how pathetic the MS buff is in every aspect. Ult was another opportunity where it could have provided a decaying slow on cast.
Kledy McKledFace4 votesmaybe the guy in vacation?
WoonStruck13 votesLike how Lyte's on "extended vacation"?
Doesn't exactly make sense to send a guy on vacation in the middle of his project.
SnowFall1 votesLike how Lyte's on "extended vacation"?
Doesn't exactly make sense to send a guy on vacation in the middle of his project.
Quickly escaped before the storm
WitchQueen Annie1 votesQuickly escaped before the storm
I sure hope not...
Neclord4 votesHe did the same shit with the Cass rework. People said it felt terrible to play from day one. Radio silence followed.
WitchQueen Annie1 votesHe did the same shit with the Cass rework. People said it felt terrible to play from day one. Radio silence followed.
So tell me how that went?
ModKnightsKemplar4 votesHe might be hard at work on changes, and he hasn't hit what feels right. If he was on there responding at first, then rest assured that he heard you. That should be good enough. I get that the community is sore when Rioters quit talking, but the reality is that he can't make those changes on this patch either way. It'll likely be something that gets adjusted next patch.
And if not, it's because he's working on some other major game improvement.
Catastrop3 votesI'd like to first know what this 'feedback' is. If it's actually something that Stashu can make use of and not a bunch of people yelling garbled nonsense, I see no reason for him to not respond. Otherwise, I don't blame him.
WoonStruck3 votesSome of it he responded to, agreed with, said he's look into, etc. He made one change and there was no further follow-up, despite him saying he'd address other things. The large majority was not 'garbled nonsense'.
Catastrop2 votesThen he might still be working on a few of the other problems, he probably just hasn't had the time to get back us on the boards.
WitchQueen Annie3 votesYou want reasons why he was nerfed? Here are the reasons. And they are driven by Fact, not Emotion.
Q, his bread and butter spell, had its AP ratios decreased. This means HUGE damage reduction and in a time where they are removing Spell Vamp (which was CORE to him), this is a HUGE nerf. The huge damage boost to the third Q is only cosmetic because any decent player will just back off whenever it is up (it is HUGELY telegraphed, with the Crimson proc being signalled BEFORE Q is even off cool down, and with only a tiny window of 2.5 seconds for anyone to manipulate, its too short). He lost a TON of damage, with nothing to compensate. And this pattern of decreasing AP ratio applies just all across the board, and in a time where they are taking away Spell Vamp, it makes NO SENSE.
His sustain ratios, all across, have been nerfed. The only part where his sustain is increased is in his Ultimate, but that comes at the unacceptable cost of its utility which was a huge reason to play him (now the damage amp went down from 12 to 10 percent, and from 5 to 4 seconds which is a HUGE nerf). Sustain nerfs, in a time where they are removing Spell Vamp, is a nerf.
Fully stacked E was way easier to use and way more powerful than the new E. First of all the new E gets blocked by 1 minion in the way (low wave-clear, too much counterplay) AND it has charge time. Furthermore, if you do the math, the fully stacked Classic Tides of Blood does more damage. Contrary to popular opinion, it was NOT hard to keep the old Tides of Blood fully stacked in team fights, as an old Vlad main, I never had any trouble with that whatsoever. The new E? It has a charge time, can get blocked, and it does less damage... AND the health cost will hurt now because Spell Vamp is gone.
I've already touched in 2 but the Ultimate is nerfed. Riot doesn't understand that a huge part of why Vlad was powerful was his damage amp capability. The fact that he could Ult a huge portion of the team and give the team a 12 percent damage amp with a huge nuke at the end was a HUGE. Instead, they added a heal in the ONE PLACE where its not needed at the unacceptable cost of a decrease of the amp to 10% (now its practically insignificant) and a decrease to 4 seconds. Now the Ult is a serious joke.
The AP to HP ratio is nerfed from 1.4 to 1.0. Yes, the HP to AP ratio was increased but since any Mage will mostly buy AP, this is going to result in less health for Vladimir overall with any meta build. While people might experiment with HP builds, AP builds are always going to be meta and Vlad now has less bonus health overall.
What does all of this mean? Vladimir has been weakened. He is no longer the scary team fighter who can blast the enemy team with reliable spell-based DPS. His Es are too unreliable with all the minion blocks and they are no longer worth casting (because his sustain has gone down without Spell Vamp) and his unempowered Qs will be lacklustre. You can't expect to land even half of your empowered Qs so the buffs there are only on paper... any decent player will avoid most of them and a 2.5 window to land them in team fights is just flat-out too small to exploit.
In lane, he will lost more than half of his damage because he won't land his 3rd Qs against people who understand him and his E is unusable due to health costs in the absence of Spell Vamp and lower sustain ratios and the added minion block factor.
Basically, more than HALF of the damage in his kit only exists on paper against anyone who is remotely experienced in this game... IN ADDITION to the fact that all AP and sustain ratios have actually been downgraded.
So it surprises me that ANYONE thinks he has been buffed at all? Like it's quite self-evident he has been nerfed.
And this ''low interactivity so we need to introduce counterplay'' is absolute nonsense. Where is the interactivity when laning against Nasus? Where is it when you are laning against top lane Vayne? How about when you are classic Vladimir playing against a skilled Riven?
Its just an excuse to over-nerf a champion that was in no need of nerfing and who already had a less than 50% win rate at all eloes. He wasn't a problem that needed to be addressed, in my last 30 games I was the only one playing Vladimir and I actually put in the time and effort to practice him.
Voluug133 votesVlad will be OP or trash and nerfed or ignored for months, if not years, and then RiotRepertoir will come with the MYMU 2.0 to fix Stashu's fucks ups (and any other fuck up someone does, like Syndra's. Oh god poor Syndra mains).
Between then and now, Stashu will be FINALLY removed from the rework/update area and to a place where he cant do much damage, just like they did with Scarizard after he fucked over Karma and Rengar.
It happened with Cass, it will happen with Vlad, sadly. My vampire bro will be terrible for quite the while...