"Poke supports don't need to be buffed, they are just not meta right now"

RedCyclone·Oct 5, 2015·8 votes·953 views

-2 years ago

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19 Comments

Drunk TsundereOct 5, 20152 votes

The problem is Spellthief's, and the lack of good itemization for them.

Frost Queen's Claim is not good compared to Face of the Mountain and Talisman of Ascension. Also many Spellthief's Supports scale pretty well with AP, but aside from Spellthief's and Zeke's there are no good Support items that give reasonable amounts of AP. And sure, a Nami would do well with a Rabadon's and a Luden's, but Supports (Specifically Spellthief's Supports) get like no gold.

My suggestion is that the gold gen on Spellthief's needs to be buffed through the roof. It needs better gold gen than either other support item. That way, you have a reason to pick Spellthief Supports over any other type of support, and it also allows them to better afford these big AP items and actually be able to scale.

StillshadeOct 5, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Support GG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kciuPZET,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-05T22:58:50.926+0000)

The problem is Spellthief's, and the lack of good itemization for them.

Frost Queen's Claim is not good compared to Face of the Mountain and Talisman of Ascension. Also many Spellthief's Supports scale pretty well with AP, but aside from Spellthief's and Zeke's there are no good Support items that give reasonable amounts of AP. And sure, a Nami would do well with a Rabadon's and a Luden's, but Supports (Specifically Spellthief's Supports) get like no gold.

My suggestion is that the gold gen on Spellthief's needs to be buffed through the roof. It needs better gold gen than either other support item. That way, you have a reason to pick Spellthief Supports over any other type of support, and it also allows them to better afford these big AP items and actually be able to scale.

but then itd be league of annie again

DanofDemaciaOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

but then itd be league of annie again

as if it isnt already

OverpoweredSoapOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

but then itd be league of annie again

Wouldn't that mean that Annie is the problem and not something else?

Drunk TsundereOct 6, 20152 votes

Annie doesn't even build Spellthief's. Support Annie builds Coin and becomes an initiator with Talistman, Righteous Glory, and her ultimate. The ONLY AP item that is acceptable to buy on Support Annie is Zeke's.

DJ Di0Oct 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Support GG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kciuPZET,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-05T22:58:50.926+0000)

The problem is Spellthief's, and the lack of good itemization for them.

Frost Queen's Claim is not good compared to Face of the Mountain and Talisman of Ascension. Also many Spellthief's Supports scale pretty well with AP, but aside from Spellthief's and Zeke's there are no good Support items that give reasonable amounts of AP. And sure, a Nami would do well with a Rabadon's and a Luden's, but Supports (Specifically Spellthief's Supports) get like no gold.

My suggestion is that the gold gen on Spellthief's needs to be buffed through the roof. It needs better gold gen than either other support item. That way, you have a reason to pick Spellthief Supports over any other type of support, and it also allows them to better afford these big AP items and actually be able to scale.

I remember when the Spellthief line was buffed unintentionally a few months ago; it's gold gen went up to like 15 per 10 from 2 per 10. I was so excited lol.

I think something like 6 per 10 would be a reasonable buff. Frost Queen's Claim has the worst active out of all the support items and it's gold gen doesn't make up for it.

ErockandrollOct 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=DJ Di0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kciuPZET,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-10-05T23:14:01.690+0000)

I remember when the Spellthief line was buffed unintentionally a few months ago; it's gold gen went up to like 15 per 10 from 2 per 10. I was so excited lol.

I think something like 6 per 10 would be a reasonable buff. Frost Queen's Claim has the worst active out of all the support items and it's gold gen doesn't make up for it.

It was at 4 per 10, then got nerfed, because YoloQers kept QQing about supports having APC level gold. (even though it was the APC who had support level gold, due to terrible CS.)

Riot won't buff the AP or the GP10m on Frost Queen's. That would make them viable on AP mid laners. (which they will avoid at all costs.)

Personally, I think the on hit damage from tribute passive should be buffed. There is too little reason to upgrade spell thief's, and the extra poke damage should give them a little more power.

But realistically, the Tanks supports just need to take a hit. Buff the poke supports, and ADC will just QQ, even if the tank supports don't feel the impact. And such nerfs probably will have to target champions, as several tanks can work just as well with either shield or coin.

DJ Di0Oct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It was at 4 per 10, then got nerfed, because YoloQers kept QQing about supports having APC level gold. (even though it was the APC who had support level gold, due to terrible CS.)

Riot won't buff the AP or the GP10m on Frost Queen's. That would make them viable on AP mid laners. (which they will avoid at all costs.)

Personally, I think the on hit damage from tribute passive should be buffed. There is too little reason to upgrade spell thief's, and the extra poke damage should give them a little more power.

But realistically, the Tanks supports just need to take a hit. Buff the poke supports, and ADC will just QQ, even if the tank supports don't feel the impact. And such nerfs probably will have to target champions, as several tanks can work just as well with either shield or coin.

https://i.gyazo.com/3a7dbf7ccbcc44cf815fcdb9181151cc.png

I do find it funny that right now Vayne is doing well, and people still don't want poke supports even though something like a Lucian+Sona or Draven+Lulu could keep Vayne down during laning phase.

Death by GlamourOct 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Support GG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kciuPZET,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-05T22:58:50.926+0000)

The problem is Spellthief's, and the lack of good itemization for them.

Frost Queen's Claim is not good compared to Face of the Mountain and Talisman of Ascension. Also many Spellthief's Supports scale pretty well with AP, but aside from Spellthief's and Zeke's there are no good Support items that give reasonable amounts of AP. And sure, a Nami would do well with a Rabadon's and a Luden's, but Supports (Specifically Spellthief's Supports) get like no gold.

My suggestion is that the gold gen on Spellthief's needs to be buffed through the roof. It needs better gold gen than either other support item. That way, you have a reason to pick Spellthief Supports over any other type of support, and it also allows them to better afford these big AP items and actually be able to scale.

What about banner, giving poke supports some decent ap items will only buff the likes of annie and morgana.

Untill morganas damage ap scalings get gutted and annie recieves a few nerfs to get her under control i cant really see any benefit support ap items will bring to bot lane.

ErockandrollOct 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ace 1n your hole,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kciuPZET,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2015-10-05T23:18:07.058+0000)

What about banner, giving poke supports some decent ap items will only buff the likes of annie and morgana.

Untill morganas damage ap scalings get gutted and annie recieves a few nerfs to get her under control i cant really see any benefit support ap items will bring to bot lane.

This is why putting large amounts of AP on a support item is doesn't work. because it wouldn't be a support item, it would be an APC item. (like a support can't build Ludens for the MS, AP, and extra poke damage.)

and secondly, the AP disparity is the only reason why AP champions like Annie and Morgana, can even be balanced both as a support and as an APC.

lastly, any poke support who can't also solo lane, pretty much has lame AP ratio's on their damaging abilities. Sona for example only has .5 ratio on her Q and R, (and not even that on her power chord.) And her utility scaling is even worse so their is very little reason to scale large amounts of AP. In sona's case, the only way to significantly increase her Damage output is with either Lichbane or Ludens. Poke supports really need more damage that isn't reliant on scaling.

RedCycloneOct 5, 20152 votes

it's the tier 3 upgrade what sucks, it's pathetic in comparison to Coin and Shield T1 and 2 are pretty damn good at making money, stats are kinda ...eh...

AbyssphereOct 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

it's the tier 3 upgrade what sucks, it's pathetic in comparison to Coin and Shield T1 and 2 are pretty damn good at making money, stats are kinda ...eh...

Spellthief's is great. Frostfang however feels like the biggest waste of 500 gold you'll ever see. Frost Queen's needs help but IMO so does Frostfang.

JRobin31Oct 6, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Support GG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kciuPZET,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-05T22:58:50.926+0000)

The problem is Spellthief's, and the lack of good itemization for them.

Frost Queen's Claim is not good compared to Face of the Mountain and Talisman of Ascension. Also many Spellthief's Supports scale pretty well with AP, but aside from Spellthief's and Zeke's there are no good Support items that give reasonable amounts of AP. And sure, a Nami would do well with a Rabadon's and a Luden's, but Supports (Specifically Spellthief's Supports) get like no gold.

My suggestion is that the gold gen on Spellthief's needs to be buffed through the roof. It needs better gold gen than either other support item. That way, you have a reason to pick Spellthief Supports over any other type of support, and it also allows them to better afford these big AP items and actually be able to scale.

I find that the gold income from poke with Spellthief's and Frostfang are good, but I agree Frost Queen's Claim doesn't offer a good active compared to the other lines. I'm not sure the AP from Frost Queen is worth it either. It seems like it's better to just start building some other AP item. Usually when I check my gold earned from Spellthief I have more than the opposing support (maybe I'm just better at poking?). One key is to make sure to get those three hits on the enemy tower. Spell thief line definitely requires you to be more active in lane and you absolutely need to take advantage of every opportunity to poke to see your value from this item.

But in the end, utility is valued on supports and I don't see that part of the meta shifting. And that means speed and health are probably more valuable to a support than AP.