It's Time to Talk About Cho'Gath

Kivolan··3 votes·1,236 views

Warning: Incoming novel.

Once upon a time, Cho was sitting as one of my most played champions. Not only is his identity amazing (GIANT VOID BEAST THAT GETS BIGGER THE MORE HE EATS), but I enjoyed playing a tank that felt like I was doing more than just absorbing damage. He trades his lack of mobility and a crappy late game for some great CC during the early game and mid game. Built AP, he can do some pretty excellent damage, deleting a squishy like an ADC from a teamfight (if he managed to land his Q).

I recently dusted him off for the first time since his nerfs, and his W is now one of the clunkiest skills I have ever used. Old W applied the damage and silence for the entire cone a few moments after it was cast, regardless on whether or not the enemy dashed out of the AoE during that delay. This was wonderful and felt a little bit like ranged autos that follow champs. It also gave a bit of time for the enemy to fight back with their own CC or damage before the silence actually applied. Most of all, however, it was wonderful at stopping dashes.

In its current form, enemies can actually be in the cone for the entire duration and not get hit by the silence or damage if they dash during the animation. This completely ruins the purpose of Cho's silence in general. I'm not sure if this is a bug or not, but it almost feels like the damage / silence is applied from Cho moving out to the largest part of the cone during a short period (as in, it follows the blue sound waves). Now, Riot has called the old interaction a bug and said that it lacked counterplay. That's fine, but it needs some better compensation than removing a few seconds off the still-lengthy cooldown, especially when you've also knocked down the silence duration.

Cho is currently sitting at a 48% win rate, putting him in the bottom 1/4 of all champions. So how can we improve him? Here are some thoughts:

Q: Steals speed from enemy champions hit like Malphite Q (more enemies hit = better speed boost) -OR- remove Cho's casting delay -OR- Up the slow duration / amount of the slow.

Right now, even with landing a Q, I still find it difficult to get to an enemy champion without burning flash due to the considerable delay where Cho stands still while he's casting it. For such a difficult skill to land (especially late game), it doesn't feel very rewarding.

W: Revert it back to its previous form -OR- Up the duration back to 2.5 seconds.

That silence is Cho's bread and butter. It's the only reason he's really worth playing and the only impact he brings to teamfights.

E: Stacks with itself up to 3 or 4 times (more spikes landed on the enemy, the more damage the next ones do) -OR- Enemy champions with spikes in them take additional damage from Cho's other skills / lengthen the slow and silence durations -OR- Attack speed ramps up the more spikes landed -OR- Let E damage towers.

This would reward Cho players for actually managing to get on top of an enemy champion (no easy task) before unloading other skills. That or he can actually reliable splitpush.

And, while we're at it, can we fix the bug of the physical and magical damage applying separately? I can't count the number of minions I've lost because the spike damage applies slightly after the auto attack.

Right now, Cho just doesn't seem very viable in a meta that values mobility, ranged champions and damage over crowd control. These are only some ideas I have to bring the void beast back into play, and I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks.

TLDR: Cho's sitting at a 48% win rate. Was it because of the W changes? How can we improve his champion identity as a whole and make him more meaningful in fights, especially late-game?

11 Comments

Tenth Leper1 votes

I would welcome a Cho buff in almost any form. I remember him being a lot of fun while I was learning the game.

KuroCaliber1 votes

BattleCast Cho was my first legendary skin, I miss the days of dominating top...in style. Not to mention being the size of the lane late game. Pls make Cho great again.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

Between CotC and Titanic Hydra, AD Juggernaut Cho seems pretty decent right now. W is great vs. assassins.

Kivolan1 votes

{quoted}

Between CotC and Titanic Hydra, AD Juggernaut Cho seems pretty decent right now. W is great vs. assassins.

I experimented with item 3078 on him before. Didn't care for it all too much, but it might be pretty good late game. AD just seems strange on him.

Profirix1 votes

Cho took a major hit to his reliability and in an evolving game where increased mobility and high-skill-cap dodging is the future, it really hurts is performance. Riot was aiming for a net-neutral change to Cho'Gath's performance but ultimately ended up nerfing him because they did not realize how critical the W application of damage and cc was to his kit.

I've said it before that the W change was necessary because you could not avoid it if he managed to cast it while you were in the original cone, whether or not you flashed it. That being said, he needs work but is likely to be ignored because he isn't popular and does not bring anything back to the meta that other, newer champions can provide with twice as much flair. His kit is outdated and his E is just a glorified wave-clear tool that has no practical use outside of laning phase. He needs a new E ability where his vorpal spikes are just a part of his passive and don't proc off of tower hits. Lastly, they gave him a shorter cooldown on his Feral Scream, but they didn't touch the mana cost. That skill is single-handedly responsible for Cho being out of mana most of laning phase and you want me to spam it even more? It needs a mana cost reduction.

Kivolan1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Blame Adam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ka7wreuO,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-12-07T02:01:57.935+0000)

Cho took a major hit to his reliability and in an evolving game where increased mobility and high-skill-cap dodging is the future, it really hurts is performance. Riot was aiming for a net-neutral change to Cho'Gath's performance but ultimately ended up nerfing him because they did not realize how critical the W application of damage and cc was to his kit.

I've said it before that the W change was necessary because you could not avoid it if he managed to cast it while you were in the original cone, whether or not you flashed it. That being said, he needs work but is likely to be ignored because he isn't popular and does not bring anything back to the meta that other, newer champions can provide with twice as much flair. His kit is outdated and his E is just a glorified wave-clear tool that has no practical use outside of laning phase. He needs a new E ability where his vorpal spikes are just a part of his passive and don't proc off of tower hits. Lastly, they gave him a shorter cooldown on his Feral Scream, but they didn't touch the mana cost. That skill is single-handedly responsible for Cho being out of mana most of laning phase and you want me to spam it even more? It needs a mana cost reduction.

I think this hits the nail on the head. What was supposed to be a change definitely ended up being a nerf. I always leveled W first due to the reliability and... Well, now it's not so reliable for the ridiculous mana cost it has. They need to lower the cost or up the amount of mana restored from his passive.

A new E would be amazing. It did always feel like a very lackluster skill. However, not sure if adding it as his passive is a good idea. Cho does need the ability to toggle the spikes on and off to prevent accidental turret aggro if it stays in any form. Either the skill needs to be scrapped altogether or another passive needs to be added to the skill.

Wind Whistler1 votes

Great novel. Great suggested changes. Too bad Cho'Gath is on Riot's (and most of the community's) hate list, therefor he won't be buffed and he will be left to rot like AP Kog'Maw. I stopped playing the game about a month ago, and now I hardly even come on the boards anymore. I used to check patches, but I'm slowly forgetting about League. R.I.P. Cho'Gath.

darnar3601 votes

All I say is the fact they gave the same bs move on vorpal strike as they did on sivir it meant I would no longer play cho gall. . . . . it's amazing every time riot does a rework on a skill they make it useless, hell they do anything like that to lee like they wanted to rework him along time ago I will create 10000+ accounts just so I can say in all of them DON'T CHANGE LEE!!!!! cho doesn't need buffs or nerfs or anything of the sort just revert the change to his E skill and he become decent again it's the same thing with sivir change her W back to what it was and done she becomes something usefull again make it pro times 3 with ruunans and bam you have a top tier adc again

Kivolan1 votes

{quoted}

All I say is the fact they gave the same bs move on vorpal strike as they did on sivir it meant I would no longer play cho gall. . . . . it's amazing every time riot does a rework on a skill they make it useless, hell they do anything like that to lee like they wanted to rework him along time ago I will create 10000+ accounts just so I can say in all of them DON'T CHANGE LEE!!!!! cho doesn't need buffs or nerfs or anything of the sort just revert the change to his E skill and he become decent again it's the same thing with sivir change her W back to what it was and done she becomes something usefull again make it pro times 3 with ruunans and bam you have a top tier adc again

Holy mother of necro. I posted this a year ago lol.

Reverting his E change would make him useless again, putting him right back where this thread started.

darnar3601 votes

I'm rezzing all the necros :P and I don't see how it's useless the old E was great wave clear the new E is 3 hits and you done o _o

Kivolan1 votes

{quoted}

I'm rezzing all the necros :P and I don't see how it's useless the old E was great wave clear the new E is 3 hits and you done o _o

Wave clear is not always a good thing, though, especially for someone immobile like Cho. Plus, as I talked about, the magic damage proccing later often lead to CS being lost.

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