Patch 8.21

DeusVult·Oct 23, 2018·123 votes·21,800 views

A patch where Aurelion Sol (less than 1.5% play rate, 55% win rate, and 0.22% ban rate) is getting a bigger nerf than Irelia (28% play rate, 50% win rate in 2 roles, and a 55% ban rate) Just a hint for that Asol win rate, he is only being played by his one tricks and has a completely unique play style that many people dont know how to play against

Where essence reaver is getting buffed while Lucian is at a 52% win rate with a 30% play rate

And Zoe, a champ that no one wants to play against because her kit is crap, is getting buffs

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

146 Comments

Crow NebulaOct 23, 201883 votes

What makes me laugh is that they claimed that buffing Aurelion's HP regen by 0.1 would help out new players. As if regenerating 1 point of HP every 10 seconds would make any difference whatsoever. I can handle that Riot suck at balancing; they're just average human beings after all. But what I hate is when they insult our intelligence with the most stupid excuses for their changes.

SaiannaOct 23, 20182 votes

But what I hate is when they insult our intelligence with the most stupid excuses for their changes.

Some people get aroused by that actually :P the same people then defend Riot with whatever they can as if their love-life depends on it.

Hayaishi2Oct 23, 201836 votes

Balance team is balancing around their favorites again.

There's no reason for Zoe to be buffed back. She's not the only champion struggling yet since she is a favorite shes the first to be buffed.

MordepoolOct 23, 201810 votes

I would love for a Red to have the balls to respond to this conment

chipndip1Oct 23, 201819 votes

You mean the lack of a brain

Zoe's been weak for months. Gets a singular buff and now she's "the first one"?

GayFluffyUnicornOct 23, 20187 votes

Rightfully so. Until they actually rebalance or mini rework her kit there is no reason for to get any buffs other than $$$$$

Evil Bisex PlantOct 23, 20184 votes

Mini? That kit is literally Nidalee's Q with trillion passives and no cooldowns which make it ridiculous, that thing needs to be fully deleted and started from a scratch, you can't mini rework it into anything remotely acceptable.

IllabetheOct 24, 20183 votes

What do you want? -They nerfed her Q. -They shortened the Post wall distance on E -They took away E's cooldown reduction. -They took away E's Ground Bubble. -They increased E's cooldown by 2 seconds. -They shortened the duration of actives dropped from W -They took away half her Passive's functionality.

Wtf do they have to do to make you happy? Hog tie her and bathe her in tar and feathers?

KmSneakyOct 24, 20183 votes

Not create a champion that's a living nightmare to balance and a buzz kill for everyone that's not the person playing said champion ? In the first place ... that'd be awesome :O

IllabetheOct 24, 20182 votes

Except..... most people I know who jungle or play other lanes than mid...... generally think she's a joke, and a sure fire WIN because she's so easy to shut down and kill. Don't use Summoners around her if she can live long enough to pick them up. CHECK. Wait for her to R, and get ready to bomb the piss out of her when she lands from her R. BOOM Dead Zoe.

Every. Single. Part. Of. Her. Kit. Has. VERY solid counterplay.

I've been stomping her into the ground since her FIRST incarnation..... with the sleep you couldn't dispel. Now she's just a pure joke.

I'm sorry you never learned to build resist or not use summoners in bad locations. I'm sorry you go out alone into warded areas and create easy setups for her to kill you. I'm sorry you think she has good wave clear. I'm sorry you think her E without a pool is OP, when it's the only "Stun" in the game that can be disrupted by taking more damage..... Surely 3 second roots or 2.5 second stuns don't hold a candle to sleep.......

She is so weak right now, nearly anyone can duel her, and win, if they prepared.

Tomoe GozenOct 23, 20183 votes

Just because you want Zoe to stay gutted, doesn't suddenly make her the "balance team's favorite". There's every reason Zoe should be buffed back - she's weak.

KFCeytronOct 23, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kVl0FVcx,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-10-23T19:30:38.978+0000)

Just because you want Zoe to stay gutted, doesn't suddenly make her the "balance team's favorite". There's every reason Zoe should be buffed back - she's weak.

Not every weak champ should be buffed, because sometimes champs are kept weak on purpose to reduce their play rates. Zoe is an awful champion by design, and she got nerfed until she wasn't in every game. Until she gets a decent rework, she should stay in the trash where she belongs.

Tomoe GozenOct 24, 20183 votes

[deleted]

KFCeytronOct 24, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kVl0FVcx,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2018-10-24T09:29:38.368+0000)

Or maybe you should step out of a garbage can yourself and learn how to play against her a bit. I know that it's way more popular to cry about gutting a champ or perma banning them when they appear to be strong picks but not everyone that has a permaban status, is actually that strong.

Most of the champs on this list are there because of their wide popularity and the sheeple who just adopt their place in the meta and don't want to see it all the time. Which gives people like you, the wrong idea on why they're there in the first place. I don't care about your feelings in this argument, they're not a valid reason why Zoe (or any champ) should be left in the dumpster for a long period of time.

It certainly doesn't mean Zoe should be deleted until you can make peace with her "new" (and approved by you) changes.

Oh, calling me trash in the first sentence of your post will surely make me read the rest of it.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/e2/e202e17f098352ae6b91b009cc64a2ab0257b707a5e9b4babfe9acdeb26d538c.jpg

Hayaishi2Oct 23, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kVl0FVcx,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-10-23T19:30:38.978+0000)

Just because you want Zoe to stay gutted, doesn't suddenly make her the "balance team's favorite". There's every reason Zoe should be buffed back - she's weak.

And just because you and the balance team like Zoe doesn't mean she should be buffed back, there's every reason why she shouldn't be buffed. She's toxic.

Tomoe GozenOct 24, 20183 votes

What a shitty reason - all stemming from a biased opinion. Let's not buff weak champions because Hayaishi2 has a preference on which champions should be playable and which shouldn't.

I don't like Zoe either but given that she's a champion, staying gutted because it suits you is not going to happen. Zoe players need at least something. Bigger changes for Zoe's kit were slotted but ultimately, Riot wasn't too confident in them and dropped them or delayed them for the time being. They're likely going to happen eventually but until that time, Zoe being unplayable isn't what Riot wants to enforce.

Maybe you like strawmanning an argument when a champion you don't like gets much needed buffs but in doing so, it makes my point even more obvious.

Hayaishi2Oct 24, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kVl0FVcx,comment-id=0001000100010001,timestamp=2018-10-24T09:17:52.836+0000)

What a shitty reason - all stemming from a biased opinion. Let's not buff weak champions because Hayaishi2 has a preference on which champions should be playable and which shouldn't.

I don't like Zoe either but given that she's a champion, staying gutted because it suits you is not going to happen. Zoe players need at least something. Bigger changes for Zoe's kit were slotted but ultimately, Riot wasn't too confident in them and dropped them or delayed them for the time being. They're likely going to happen eventually but until that time, Zoe being unplayable isn't what Riot wants to enforce.

Maybe you like strawmanning an argument when a champion you don't like gets much needed buffs but in doing so, it makes my point even more obvious.

Of course. Yet Azir stays gutted because nobody likes to play against him. Where is the Azir defense brigade? Where's "AZIR MAINS DESERVE SOMETHING" Clearly Azir being unplayable is something Riot wants to enforce yet Zoe is also a toxic champion but Riot hasnt given up on her like they did with Azir, reworked him nerfed him again then bye bye emperor

All toxic champions should be treated the same, if Azir deserves to stay guttrd so does Zoe but favoritism will keep Riot from treating all the champions equally.

Tomoe GozenOct 24, 20181 votes

Azir isn't gutted as Zoe is. Azir was pegged down in terms of range and a bit of Q damage so that he doesn't get to outrange and outpoke you before he even thinks about engaging you.

All toxic champions should be treated the same

These "toxic" champions you're talking about are more of a personal annoyance than a hard fact that every player can agree upon. You're allowed to have a personal list of annoying champs you don't like to play with/against. But to use your personal list as evidence that these champions are impossible to balance and therefore, they should just be nerfed so hard that they might not be in the game, is a completely ridiculous notion.

Every player has this list so where do we draw this line? If we take everyone's lists into account, League has all 141 toxic champions that one way or the other, annoy someone in the community and therefore, every champion should just sit the entire season in the dumpster because we're waiting for magical 141 reworks at the same time.

Hayaishi2Oct 24, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kVl0FVcx,comment-id=000100010001000100000001,timestamp=2018-10-24T17:07:08.147+0000)

Azir isn't gutted as Zoe is. Azir was pegged down in terms of range and a bit of Q damage so that he doesn't get to outrange and outpoke you before he even thinks about engaging you.

These "toxic" champions you're talking about are more of a personal annoyance than a hard fact that every player can agree upon. You're allowed to have a personal list of annoying champs you don't like to play with/against. But to use your personal list as evidence that these champions are impossible to balance and therefore, they should just be nerfed so hard that they might not be in the game, is a completely ridiculous notion.

Every player has this list so where do we draw this line? If we take everyone's lists into account, League has all 141 toxic champions that one way or the other, annoy someone in the community and therefore, every champion should just sit the entire season in the dumpster because we're waiting for magical 141 reworks at the same time.

Azir isn't as gutted as Zoe is??? I understand you are biased but let's be serious.

Riot has their own list of toxic champions. Azir is one of them seeing as how time passes and Riot still leaves him in the gutter. Zoe was gutted for the same reason yet she gets buffs 3 patches later while Azir is ignored for a year. Or do you think all the heavy nerfs Zoe got its because the community cried? lmao give me a break its because Riot can see (as everyone who has followed Riot's balancing logic over the years which gets even less logical as the years pass knows riot guts their toxic abominations like Kalista and Zoe is no different so its frustrating when they apply this bullshit double standard.

The only difference is Riot got tired of trying to balance Azir/Kalista and Zoe is new. Which is just plain favoritism.

I don't ask for Zoe to remain gutted because of my personal opinion of her. I ask based on how Riot has balanced the game over the years. Lmao they even reworked Nidalee for doing the same thing Zoe does and then release Zoe who pretty much warps the game around her poke like old nidalee used to ( Hell like lethality Varus an even more recent example had his Q gutted to destroy the playstyle) yet people actually dare to say Zoe is healthy. Zoe is even worse because her kit is way more overloaded than either of them and she could have an impact even without her poke.

S0lShadowsOct 23, 20185 votes

Just because you lack the ability to play against a champion does not mean it doesnt deserve buffs. They put Zoe in a pretty awful spot after those nerfs. She didnt even need the nerfs but people like you who can`t play against a champ cry for nerfs instead of improving your gameplay.

Moody POct 23, 201834 votes

only played by one tricks doesn't mean anything lol. A sol is OP when played to his best, so he gets nerfed.

DeusVultOct 23, 20186 votes

Somewhat true.

But if a champ is only played by a small % of players and has a high win rate, it is generally because the other players don't know how to play against them because they do not have practice playing against it. See Hjaarnans heimer. Not OP, but its hard to play against something that you do not see often enough to form a way to counter it.

If a champ has 100% win rate, but is only played by 1 player, it doesnt mean that the champ is OP, or even that when played to the maximum potential that it is OP. It could mean that, but it isnt an automatic thing. If you add more play rate and the win rate doesnt change, then the champ is OP. If you add more play rate and the win rate drops as the play rate rises, then that champ is fine and its simply a case of opponents not knowing how to counter the champ properly.

Z3SleeperOct 23, 20189 votes

I think high diamond has been playing against it enough to know how to. He's definitely extremely strong.

Surprised they didn't target his roaming though and targeted his laning.

WalkingInACircleOct 23, 20185 votes

Well, nerf weakness, keep identity intact is a good thing.

AirKingNeoOct 23, 201839 votes

A sol is OP when played to his best, so he gets nerfed.

I wish they applied this logic to Riven.

NiceTryViOct 23, 201816 votes

Or Yasuo, or Zoe, or, Irelia, or...

The logic of buffing and nerfing people based on them played at their best is a ridiculous way of doing it.

GigglesOOct 23, 20186 votes

Akali, Lee Sin, Kayn

When played by the best... yea I too want to see nerfs for champs that are overplayed.

Daddy AntsOct 23, 201826 votes

ASol is being nerfed because he's near impossible to abuse early game while scaling so well.

Imagine if you couldn't abuse a Kai'Sa or a Twitch early game and they scaled as well as they do?

I'm sure boards would be crying in numbers then.

Meteor DrizOct 23, 20183 votes

{quoted}

ASol is being nerfed because he's near impossible to abuse early game while scaling so well.

Imagine if you couldn't abuse a Kai'Sa or a Twitch early game and they scaled as well as they do?

I'm sure boards would be crying in numbers then.

Literally any champion with gap close or jungle with predator+cc will full combo him easily. His early game has as much weakness as any other immobile mage which is ALOT

Jerry SeinfeIdOct 23, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Meteor Driz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kVl0FVcx,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-10-23T17:15:30.245+0000)

Literally any champion with gap close or jungle with predator+cc will full combo him easily. His early game has as much weakness as any other immobile mage which is ALOT

for that to be true you first need to be part of the mage circlejerk.

chipndip1Oct 23, 201819 votes

He's getting nerfed because people that main A Sol are ridiculous on A Sol.

He's a mid game champ at best. Doesn't scale super hard, but he snowballs shit really well.

SithesisLordOct 23, 201812 votes

people that main A Sol are ridiculous on A Sol.

People that main Jax are ridiculous on Jax (and a bit too braindead). People that main Ahri are ridiculous on Ahri. People that main Zyra are ridiculous on Zyra. People that main Kayle are ridiculous on Kayle.

Repeat ad infinitum.

Hardly good reasoning to nerf a champion this damn hard.

Meanwhile Irelia, a champion that´s been more broken than not since her rework: -5 MS.

Riot REALLY needs to start selling the pot their balance team is smoking because it MUST be really damn good.

chipndip1Oct 24, 20186 votes

There's a stark difference between "good" and "ridiculous". A Sol has had this issue many times, where mains of him were basically collecting freelo by punishing side lanes on repeat.

The only reason you don't want him nerfed is because he isn't played more.

SithesisLordOct 24, 20182 votes

The only reason you don't want him nerfed is because he isn't played more.

No, i don´t want him nerfed because there are far more urgent and actual problems.

Conqueror, Camille, Jax, Irelia, Kassadin, Kha'Zix, LeBlanc, Lucian, Sion, Taliyah, Thresh, Urgot.

But yeah, let´s nerf a barely played champion because his mains are being mains.

Again, Riot needs to sell the pot the balance team is smoking. It has to be really good if they´re willing to overlook all those massive problems or minimally nerf them, after all, -5 MS will certainly gut Irelia into release Syndra levels of performance, but one barely played champion overperforming because their mains and OTPs are being mains and OTPs is their top 1 priority.

chipndip1Oct 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

No, i don´t want him nerfed because there are far more urgent and actual problems.

Conqueror, Camille, Jax, Irelia, Kassadin, Kha'Zix, LeBlanc, Lucian, Sion, Taliyah, Thresh, Urgot.

But yeah, let´s nerf a barely played champion because his mains are being mains.

Like I said: If he had a higher play rate and similar success, you wouldn't be saying this. It's the same reason we nerf Ryze. If he's seeing even a "eh" general win rate/play rate, his mains are probably making everyone they run into look like Hashinshin in a bad way. Same thing for Sol...just less extreme, but he's still hit a point where he needs to be tapped on, anyway.

SithesisLordOct 24, 20182 votes

but he's still hit a point where he needs to be tapped on, anyway.

Not when there´s a shit ton of more pressing matters to take care of.

I´m not denying he needed the nerf, but when there are champions that are being picked 10 times more, banned nearly 150 times more and having comparatively much more if not equal success given their percentages, i think they could have waited a few more patches.

Z3SleeperOct 23, 201818 votes

Atleast he's not being nerfed for low elo like Yorick was.

Oakleaf RangerOct 23, 201810 votes

People who thought the graves nerf wasn't a big deal because all they saw was -3 are an idiot. That -3 nerfed his auto attack damage, Q damage, R damage, clear speed, and life steal stat wise.

That is huge.

Nerfing base move speed creates a similar effect. Irelia is getting a significant nerf.

DeusVultOct 24, 20182 votes

While I would tend to agree with you, 3 AD isn't that much overall when we are talking about the champs that those type of nerfs happen to.

Graves has been S tier or near enough to it since his rework as a jungler. 3 AD slows him down a bit, but he is still just as safe as he always was with a strong clear and a great dueling potential.

As for the MS nerf, it depends as to which champ it hits. If someone like Singed or heimer was to get a 5 MS nerf, they would be dumpstered, because that is ALL of their mobility. But for someone like Irelia, who very rarely is actually walking around in lane or during a fight, 5 MS IMO doesnt mean much. What is a 5 MS nerf if you are constently using Q - E - R resets to dash all over the place during a fight.

Oakleaf RangerOct 24, 20183 votes

The point of nerfs isn't to gut them...

Its to bring them in line with everyone else. Same way buffs aren't meant to make them better than everyone else.

-5 ms means its harder to run away or chase. To be where you need to be. Slows are more effective.

It doesn't matter what champion you are, this is going to hurt.

MrFawknSunshineOct 23, 20186 votes

where are my tank buffs? i need buffs to resolve tree and base stats or items.

i remember they were suppose to buff the tanks it ended up sion, leona, so called naut buff and i cant remember any one else.

SwiftKitten88Oct 23, 20185 votes

{quoted}

where are my tank buffs? i need buffs to resolve tree and base stats or items.

i remember they were suppose to buff the tanks it ended up sion, leona, so called naut buff and i cant remember any one else.

... they said they were balancing them.. not buffing them

and they did balance them

GlaricionOct 23, 20183 votes

Grasp of the Undying and Aftershock both seem to be really strong options as keystones, more minor choices such as chrysalis, second wind, and bone plating also seem to be quite strong. What more could they do for the resolve tree before making it mandatory to take as at least a secondary?

Durability items do seem to be weak this season though

MrFawknSunshineOct 23, 20183 votes

name the top 10 champs in each role:

see how many are tanks https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champions/ using their tier list for each role we have 1 tank in top sion 1 tank in jng rammus 0 in mid 0 in "bot" 2 tanks in sup alistar and taric

so out of 50 champs in 5 roles only 4 so please tell me how resolve tree is better then all the other trees

i can break it done even more as i have done so in the past. if you want to look at pick/ban rates and what champs that are in the top 10 that take resolve primary over any other runes

it is a damage meta and has been for a long while. bruiser/juggernauts are as tanky if not tankier then tanks while building damage /bruiser builds tanks nearly have a losing lane in all match ups.

Sharpest glassesOct 23, 20186 votes

A patch where Aurelion Sol (less than 1.5% play rate, 55% win rate, and 0.22% ban rate) is getting a bigger nerf than Irelia

Was same when they nerfed Wukong, then Graves. They nerfed the ape harder than Graves.

Daddy AntsOct 23, 201810 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sharpest glasses,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kVl0FVcx,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-10-23T16:51:34.997+0000)

Was same when they nerfed Wukong, then Graves. They nerfed the ape harder than Graves.

Wukong had decent play rates, not high but decent.

He also had a 54-56% win rate in EVERY position he was played.

He needed nerfing.

Sharpest glassesOct 23, 20187 votes

am not saying he dosnt. Same for OP. Asol deserve nerf BUT like Graves was a bigger issue (high wr with a big pickrate) than wukong (high wr but low playrate was around 4-6% iirc).

Graves was (is) strong in EVERY elo. even after nerfs. Wukong is a troll pick now.

F Ù ŃOct 23, 20182 votes

{quoted}

A patch where Aurelion Sol (less than 1.5% play rate, 55% win rate, and 0.22% ban rate) is getting a bigger nerf than Irelia (28% play rate, 50% win rate in 2 roles, and a 55% ban rate) Just a hint for that Asol win rate, he is only being played by his one tricks and has a completely unique play style that many people dont know how to play against

Where essence reaver is getting buffed while Lucian is at a 52% win rate with a 30% play rate

And Zoe, a champ that no one wants to play against because her kit is crap, is getting buffs

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

A patch where Aurelion Sol, has been dominated, I play A Sol, I am m5, this will not make a difference. Maybe 2% drop in winrate. Aurelion Sol mains are good anyway. They will usually zone out cs in a safe matter, then dominate late and mid. A patch where Irelia gets nerfed ms. I play Irelia as well, m6, this can make a difference as you essentially reduce her mobility. This can be a big change as mobility sometimes means everything to a champ. Nasus for example, could never cs safely if his ms was nerfed to 335 or 330. Essence Reaver is iffy, but it allows for some ADCs to rise up, and dominate instead of 2 ADC, yas and MF dominating. Lucian buffs, I don’t know.

And finally Zoe, go ahead, check my boards profile, match history, and u will see I main Zoe, as an M7 Zoe, of course I’m going to have bias, but Zoe was in a real bad spot. I’m gonna be honest, LeBlanc can completly out dps, lvl 3, with a cluck ton of mobility. Imagine playing Zoe against LeBlanc, where your lvl 3 does no dmg. Now imagine every other midlander. Even if Zoe hit her full combo, Q And E, it would only do half hp lvl3, while many other mid Laners rn, can 100-0 you instantly lvl3. Without being insanely ahead, Zoe did no damage. Without first item advantage Zoe does no damage. With first item, Zoe reaches her power spike, and proceeds to do dmg. These Zoe buffs allows for Zoe to actually fight in lane, when compared to before, when most other Laners, (Even ASol) can completly our dps, and kill Zoe. Remember, all her dmg is in 1 ability. Dodge it, she’s donso

S0lShadowsOct 23, 20187 votes

After the zoe nerfs she was basically a shitty Lux. People on the boards cant play against stuff and then come here to cry so I wouldnt really worry about it. She deserved the buffs.

F Ù ŃOct 24, 20182 votes

{quoted}

After the zoe nerfs she was basically a shitty Lux. People on the boards cant play against stuff and then come here to cry so I wouldnt really worry about it. She deserved the buffs.

Finally, someone who actually has brain cells. People in boards, myself included, will complain about everything, yet they don’t counterplay. Best thing to do is ask for help on how to counterplay.