Sejuani is supposed to be the least tanky and most damaging of traditional engaging tanks

Photos of Ghosts·Oct 24, 2015·85 votes·4,222 views

As opposed to fighters and juggernauts.

Give her her goddamn damage back.

98 Comments

Chuck CharlesOct 24, 201515 votes

she still deals pretty damn good damage dude. its not just quite as ridiculous as it was. do you remember how oppressive she was while being super tanky during cinderhulk height? she had like 5k-6k health while dealing close to 600 damage over 4 seconds with her W. ridiculous. she was disgusting.

I honestly think sejuani is fine right now. still more viable than people give her credit for.

Remlap1223Oct 24, 20155 votes

NO, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO AGREE WITH MY OPINION GODDAMNIT! DOWNVOTE BRIGADE! COMMENCE!

*obvious sarcasm disclaimer so I don't get banned for "brigading".

Photos of GhostsOct 24, 20152 votes

He's not being downvoted, nor the original post of opposite opinion.

Put your tinfoil hat down.

ParessOct 24, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bronze IV Lux,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kRP4ATJt,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-10-24T17:23:29.189+0000)

she still deals pretty damn good damage dude. its not just quite as ridiculous as it was. do you remember how oppressive she was while being super tanky during cinderhulk height? she had like 5k-6k health while dealing close to 600 damage over 4 seconds with her W. ridiculous. she was disgusting.

I honestly think sejuani is fine right now. still more viable than people give her credit for.

wow 600 damages in 4 seconds such OP, literally one shotting

Chuck CharlesOct 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

wow 600 damages in 4 seconds such OP, literally one shotting

600 damage over 4 seconds for a full tank? that has a really short cooldown she can use two times at least in a team fight in addition to her other abilities?

yeah. it was very op. A full tank sejuani with thornmail could literally just Q, W an adc and laugh as her W and the thornmail killed the adc by itself. I remember games where I ran full armor pen runes, ghostblade, LW, bork, IE, PD, boots and with like 10 or so autos wasn't even 1/3 through her health. she was insanely tanky while doing damn good damage. it was opressive.

was her damage that of a mid laner? no, but iit didnt have to be because she would live for like 20 seconds or more in a team fight while also dealing a butt ton of damage.

OshletOct 24, 20151 votes

Fun fact, with full cdr, you can actually cast the w directly after the spin ends.

The most ridiculous situation I've been in with sejuani was when I was out dpsing adcs with only thornmail and gromp buff.

Auz the RipperOct 25, 20154 votes

That was back when gromp buff did 10% of the tank's health as damage instead of the 5% it is now

Any tank could out DPS'd ADCS then

XelviOct 25, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bronze IV Lux,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kRP4ATJt,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-10-24T17:23:29.189+0000)

she still deals pretty damn good damage dude. its not just quite as ridiculous as it was. do you remember how oppressive she was while being super tanky during cinderhulk height? she had like 5k-6k health while dealing close to 600 damage over 4 seconds with her W. ridiculous. she was disgusting.

I honestly think sejuani is fine right now. still more viable than people give her credit for.

You DO realise that almost any tank can do that RIGHT NOW while building FULL TANK - something that she couldn't do (and still absolutely cannot do) without building AP items, right?

Nidalee SO NYAAAOct 24, 201510 votes

My Issue with Sej is that she can be easily invaded and can do nothing to stop it. Almost every jungler right now out classes her

EgyptianOct 25, 20152 votes

just like every other tank and ap junglers who are susceptible to invades because of their low damage output !

kaffeknappensOct 25, 20151 votes

Not really. Because they can sustain being tankier. Sejuani is constantly low in her own jungle early and there is no way she can contest a camp if someone invades.

EgyptianOct 26, 20152 votes

not really though if lee sin or Elise comes for an invade and you're playing a tank say amumu/sej/j4 unless your team mates come you can't contest them on that camp, non of them can stop it on their own

RenailleOct 24, 20158 votes

No. Sejuani is made to be the Queen of tanky CC.

Big LincolnOct 24, 201537 votes

no she isn't, otherwise Nautilus would have her outclassed in every single facet

Sejuani is high damage and high CC for being relatively poor at actually tanking

Hard PenetratorOct 24, 20151 votes

Champions with a lot of cc generally won't do much dmg, that would be broken. Do you remember ap alistar? That won't happen. I do agree she should get buff though.

Big LincolnOct 24, 201518 votes

Alistar was/is bullshit when he has damage because he has a massive % damage reduction on top of that damage and doesn't even need to build tank to be impossible to kill with it up

Sejuani has no defensive steroids other than a measly armor boost while in combat. No health-scaling shield, no flat reduction from basic attacks, no % damage reduction, nothing of the sort that many of the strongest tanks tend to actually have. That's why she has damage -- she's basically a more aggressive Tahm Kench who trades his health shield and extreme durability for mobility and a dick-load of AoE potential. More or less, she's a bruiser who scales well with health.

It would be much easier to return some of Sejuani's damage back to her than to redesign her to have a more traditional tank steroid, which would just kind of homogenize the role.

also I don't know why people think tanks shouldn't do damage, they always have and I can't think of one that doesn't have respectable damage output, bar maybe the support tanks

Hard PenetratorOct 25, 20151 votes

It is not that tanks can't deal dmg or if you have cc you can't deal dmg. There is Malphite and Amumu in this game. They do have their own weakness. Sejuani has dash that make her way more mobile than either of them and ranged ult. There was a short period where sejuani had more dmg and she easily dominated whole game. If you want to give her more dmg she will just instantly get nerfed again.

Big LincolnOct 25, 201514 votes

sejuani had more damage way before cinderhulk, even before her mini-rework she did respectable DPS

cinderhulk is the issue, but seeing as it's been nerfed, buffing the champs who were nerfed because of it being too strong is completely fair

Hard PenetratorOct 25, 20151 votes

I think it was both cindehulk and gromp buff why she was heavily nerfed. They just left her instead of rebuffing overnerfed values. She wasn't first and last champ they did it too. But for month she was insane and OP is practically suggesting going back to that.

Captain LitoOct 27, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hard Penetrator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kRP4ATJt,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-25T08:53:49.746+0000)

I think it was both cindehulk and gromp buff why she was heavily nerfed. They just left her instead of rebuffing overnerfed values. She wasn't first and last champ they did it too. But for month she was insane and OP is practically suggesting going back to that.

With all the new HP Items, theoretically yeah Sej could become powerful again if her damage was returned. (Although the only new item I would buy is Deadmans, you don't really need Titanic or Steraks, though I guess they're okay on her.), but like he said, Cinderhulk was nerfed, and she isn't really going to do much except have her AoE and health, which with the return of Elise into the meta and creation of Kindred won't be as effective.

OyddAWqJ5rOct 25, 20152 votes

That's a lie. Champs can have tons of CC and damage. They just can't have CC, damage, mobility and tankiness.

Sej only has CC and damage and slight mobility. She lacks tankiness which is made up for by building pure tankiness.

Hard PenetratorOct 25, 20151 votes

I agree but if she has cc and mobility and you build her tanky because her dmg scales with hp and you would give her more dmg, your only issue would be that her mobility isn't lee sin lvl or she doesn't have speed up? How many champions have ranged AOE ults that stun ppl, I only can think of Leona?

Leona has tons of cc and tankiness but her mobility is medicore and she can't proc her own passive. If sejuani got more dmg than lets say proper buff. She would have to get some tradeoff to balance things out.

Of course there were tons of broken junglers running all over the place so Sejuani being another op would not be something unforgivable but I just hate idea of being ulted from over the wall into knockup into permaslow into grey screen.

LankPantsOct 25, 20152 votes

Leona has tons of cc and tankiness but her mobility is medicore and she can't proc her own passive. If sejuani got more dmg than lets say proper buff. She would have to get some tradeoff to balance things out.

Leona's innately a lot more tanky than Sej. This would stand if Sej actually had inbuilt durability, but she really doesn't.

Leo trades damage, Sej trades durability.

Sej also trades anything resembling an early game. She's incredibly strong if you let her get to late game, but it's really not that hard to stop her.

XxxLumberJackxxXOct 25, 20151 votes

this is true, she has no tank ability. only cc and dmg with HP scaling to allow her to be rewarded for building tank.

Valhala Warior31Oct 25, 20158 votes

BRING BACK AP SEJUANI

KoKobotoOct 25, 20158 votes

Sejuani is one of the LEAST tankiest tanks as she has no innate shields, A/S slows, healing, Ar or MR buffs aside from a small Ar buff that works whilst in combat. Sure her CC is pretty strong but if you miss your ult you're fucked and if you get invaded early you're extra fucked, not to mention you bring like no damage to ganks other than short knock up and 1.5s slow and potential 1.25s stun. I think that reverting the nerfs to Sejuani's W wouldnt make her unbareable and would even help her with jungle clears. Compare her to Mundo, Mundo can differentaly work altho people been leaning towards juggernauts more and with all that true damage... Mundo has insane regen making him more tanky than Sejuani, Mundo also has moderately strong base damages with %health damage and constant DPS, he dosen't have hard CC tho which balances him out otherwise he'd be legit overpowered. Sejuani dosen't have the same tankyness as Mundo but has strong CC which is also a SKILL SHOT, Sejuani also dosen't have the same kind of damage as Mundo unless Mundo dosen't land cleavers.

Also looking at Sejuanis' theme I would put her as more of a fighter tank, being able to do damage but is still killable.

No one is understanding the OP....

Photos of GhostsOct 25, 20152 votes

No one in the comments, but everyone in the upvotes.

ChargeItDownMidOct 24, 20154 votes

[deleted]

Photos of GhostsOct 24, 20153 votes

She isn't and I didn't state so. But she's always been on the damage side of the spectrum for traditional engaging tanks.

LankPantsOct 25, 20155 votes

No, sejuani is suppose to trade tankyness and damage for disruption and mobility.

That's Nautilus. The champion you're thinking about is Nautilus.

Sej isn't that tanky, the only defence she has on her kit is +10-25 armour on her passive.

YCitizenSnipsYOct 24, 20152 votes

How much CC are you willing to give up on her to have said damage, because having good damage and good CC on top of being tanky is what made her pick ban and ruined the jungle for 4 patches. She can't be tanky with damgae and CC, she has to have some kind of trade off.

Photos of GhostsOct 24, 20155 votes

Her tradeoff was being the least tanky of mobile, CC heavy tanks.

YCitizenSnipsYOct 24, 20152 votes

And yet when she was tanky with good cc and good damage she was the most picked jungle by a landslide, even with that "trade-off." Face it you can't give a champion Good damage and CC and also have them very tanky, that combo has never worked no matter who the champion. Gragas, Ekko, Skarner, ect. have all been problems of balance for doing all three well and that's just the one's from recently that I could think of. She can either be a tank with good defense and CC or she can be a bruiser with good defense and damage, Doing all three just puts here back in the place she was, and there is a reason she was nerfed out of that place.

Photos of GhostsOct 24, 20158 votes

She only got there with cinderhulk and previous buffs. She wasn't like that. Having Sej always meant having 300 less HP, 60 less armor and MR on your tank.

YCitizenSnipsYOct 24, 20151 votes

Still doesn't change the fack that she was dealing good damage and CC while being tanky. You said it yourself the buffs to her damage is what put her over the top in the first place but now you want to give her buffs to damage again. So I'll ask again how much CC you want to see her loose because you can't be good at all three and that goes for all champions.

Photos of GhostsOct 24, 20158 votes

The introduction of Cinderhulk was what put her over the top. More tankiness, free damage, and tankiness in the form of HP which translates into damage tdue to her HP scalings. Now Inderhulk damages much less and grant half the passive it had previously, so much less tankiness AND damage. She needs her own damage back, WITHOUT the tankiness, aka the revertl of her own nerfs, not Cinderhulk's.

LordForrestOct 25, 20153 votes

You're forgetting the Gromp buff too. That and Cinderhulk pushed sej, from sleeper strong to HOLY SHIT. THE BOAR JUST ATE THE CARRY. It made me sad, because i had been using sej for awhile in the jungle until that patch, then she was pretty much permabanned and followed up with nerfs to her and Cinderhulk and the Gromp buff.

kasfasOct 24, 20158 votes

{quoted}

ruined the jungle for 4 patches.

I just got really attached to this part of your comment concidering the massive number of people who complain about lee sin. Like OMG 4 PATCHES! Lee has dominated for 3 seasons! Etc. etc.

But seriously, she was definitely op then, now she seems weak considering the continued cinderhulk nerfs. She does have a respectable amount of cc ( 2 hard cc spells and 1 soft one), but her damage just falls off so hard now that there are tanks that do her job better than her in a similar position; such as malphite or ammumu. Yea they aren't the same but they still do a better job than her in her position.

YCitizenSnipsYOct 24, 20151 votes

Lee sin has never been what Sejuani was, he may be a popular pick but he has never been pick/ban with an absurd winrate.

So the answer is to give her more damage? She already has tanky and CC but lets pile damage so that she can become a third carry as well.

Chromatic EagleOct 25, 20155 votes

She's less tanky and cc compared to other champs. She's a hybrid of tank, damage, and cc.

Big LincolnOct 24, 20154 votes

Amumu ?

He occupies the same state as Sejuani(high CC, damage threat, tankiness comes purely from items aside from Amumu's flat auto reduction), but nobody complained about him, and nobody complains about him now

Sejuani doesn't need to give anything up if he doesn't, especially when he's been a consistently powerful jungler for much longer than she has

YCitizenSnipsYOct 24, 20151 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Amumu/Jungle

His damage isn't above average, and isn't that strong unless you build a sizable amount of AP. He's mostly just hard to kill and brings good CC, you know what tanks are supposed to do, he isn't really a damage threat as their are many junglers who do that better.

Captain AishiOct 25, 20155 votes

according to that site he's 28/45 in damage dealt for junglers, considering champs like shyvana, diana, khazix and other fighters/assassins are also in that list. that puts him pretty much at the top of the damage charts for tank/initiation junglers

Champion SkinOct 25, 20153 votes

I guess we can just make her like Amumu since Amumu seems to work with both damage and CC

LaserDeathBladeOct 25, 20151 votes

Lol that was definitely not what she was supposed to be, besides she still does good damage

Also idk what you consider an 'engaging tank' but I don't call Darius or Garen running at the enemy team an 'engage'

Photos of GhostsOct 25, 20154 votes

"As opposed to". Doesn't tell you anything?

The FastOct 25, 20151 votes

Now I do think Sejuani was overnerfed, but you are comparing one of the best lockdowns in the game to champions that can only really run at you. You can't compare Sejuani to Garen and Darius. It just doesnt work.

Photos of GhostsOct 25, 20152 votes

"Traditional engaging tanks, as opposed to fighters and juggernauts".

Come back when you're not the 20eth person to have failed at reading anymore.

The FastOct 25, 20152 votes

If 20 people have failed at understanding your point, you may want to revise the way you worded your point man.

Photos of GhostsOct 26, 20151 votes

How is connecting a sentence ending with "..." with one starting with that a hard thing to do? Besides, can't edit titles after a few minutes from the post.