Did anyone ask for karma buffs?

Anime Fizz·Jun 16, 2019·25 votes·11,798 views

I dont know, dont think anyone asked to make karma S tier in top/mid and support.

52 Comments

CrazyMonkeyCZJun 16, 201915 votes

We love ranged klepto frozen gauntlet toplane abusers, don't we?

SuicidePlankJun 16, 201917 votes

{quoted}

We love ranged klepto frozen gauntlet toplane abusers, don't we?

They are great! Don't you remember how much fun Viktor Top was and how fast Riot reacted? :)))))))))

5StackUltOneShotJun 17, 20193 votes

{quoted}

They are great! Don't you remember how much fun Viktor Top was and how fast Riot reacted? :)))))))))

OML GIVE ME MORE DADDY RIOT11!!!111!

JOIN US NEXT PATCH WHEN TWISTED FATE BECOMES A TOPLANER AS WELL

SoulchuJun 18, 20192 votes

They keep doing the same things. Something broken like tank Karma top happens so they nerf her, then a few months later they buff her again and are surprised Pikachu when she is top tier cancer in top again. It's almost like they balance champions badly on purpose, because how could they think this wouldn't happen?

SuicidePlankJun 16, 201912 votes

I did, I love ranged Toplane Cancer!11!

SillaeJun 16, 20197 votes

she just got a skin

Mrs QtpieJun 17, 20192 votes

{quoted}

she just got a skin

The sad thing is, this is just it. There is so much evidence that suggests Riot simply advantages champions in their patch notes who they want to sell skins for.

KoiuneJun 22, 20191 votes

What

jocomotionJun 16, 20196 votes

Many people asked for a GU actually.

Karma’s a surprisingly volatile champion, she was D teir for like two seasons, and one moderate sized buff later, boom A teir, instantly. She needs an update, but no one wants to admit it.

MakattackJun 17, 20195 votes

I've been a Karma one trick for about 5 years. I've been begging for an update since season 6. They tried to do an update last year, and it was the shittiest thing I've seen. It didn't solve any of her problems. They clearly don't know what to do with Karma.

jocomotionJun 17, 20192 votes

Yup, looking at her kit at face value she’s seems like just a simple mage that should be easily balanced, but her numbers are all off, her W is uninteractive, her passive is one of the strongest ones in the game while also being invisible, along with a lot of other problems I don’t even feel like listing again.

She’s the epitome of “looks good on paper, but there are lots of flaws when practiced.”

MakattackJun 17, 20192 votes

I think they need to just balance her as a mage that can go mid or support (similar to Morgana, Brand, Zyra, Lux) using the following guidelines:

Change range to 550
Make W a reliable damage spell (meant to be maxed second on mid and last on support)
Reduce early damage
Reasoning: If Q and W are both reliable damage spells, then there's no reason for Karma to have a lot of damage on one spell.
Make W a hard CC ability.
Either make it so that if Q and W land, then the target(s) is cc'd (similar to Brand)
or make it a short-ranged skill shot that doesn't pass through minions
Make E a shield that gives movement speed that decays
Change the dynamics of Mantra
Either make Mantra have charges, and successive usages within X seconds decreases the effectiveness of whichever spell is used.
or make Mantra have charges, and using one empowered spell puts that empowered spell on cooldown for X seconds so that Karma would not just use the same empowered spells over and over.
or make Mantra not operate on a charge system, and simply make empowered spells have ONE additional, not overbearing effect.
Adjust passive based on the dynamics of Mantra.
Adjust the empowered spells based on the dynamics of Mantra
If Mantra is meant to be casted several times within a single fight, the empowered abilities can't be too strong (the opposite also applies).

I think this would keep Karma feeling like she's not a completely different champion.

Sassmast3rJun 17, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I think they need to just balance her as a mage that can go mid or support (similar to Morgana, Brand, Zyra, Lux) using the following guidelines:

Change range to 550

Make W a reliable damage spell (meant to be maxed second on mid and last on support)

Reduce early damage

Reasoning: If Q and W are both reliable damage spells, then there's no reason for Karma to have a lot of damage on one spell.

Make W a hard CC ability.

Either make it so that if Q and W land, then the target(s) is cc'd (similar to Brand)

or make it a short-ranged skill shot that doesn't pass through minions

Make E a shield that gives movement speed that decays

Change the dynamics of Mantra

Either make Mantra have charges, and successive usages within X seconds decreases the effectiveness of whichever spell is used.

or make Mantra have charges, and using one empowered spell puts that empowered spell on cooldown for X seconds so that Karma would not just use the same empowered spells over and over.

or make Mantra not operate on a charge system, and simply make empowered spells have ONE additional, not overbearing effect.

Adjust passive based on the dynamics of Mantra.

Adjust the empowered spells based on the dynamics of Mantra

If Mantra is meant to be casted several times within a single fight, the empowered abilities can't be too strong (the opposite also applies).

I think this would keep Karma feeling like she's not a completely different champion.

See, look how easily you just crafted a significantly better kit for Karma. She's so simple to fix, it's astonishing that Riot avoids her.

Voluug13Jun 17, 20193 votes

Riot devs need to look at her old kit before making any update changes, the concept of a shield+selfhealing mage can only work on a battlemage, because on a longe range poke enchater/mage thing, it is either broken or useless. Old Karma was much more of a battlemage that Scarma is, and tbh thats the direction Karma should have.

MakattackJun 17, 20192 votes

I love the idea of Karma being a dedicated battlemage, but Riot is too set on her being a support.

KoiuneJun 22, 20191 votes

Bruh her passive is not even invisible, the circle thing behind karma when it glows up, it tells you that she has ult

KoiuneJun 22, 20191 votes

Bruh her passive is not even invisible, the circle thing behind karma when it glows up, it tells you that she has ult

FallingMeteorJun 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Many people asked for a GU actually.

Karma’s a surprisingly volatile champion, she was D teir for like two seasons, and one moderate sized buff later, boom A teir, instantly. She needs an update, but no one wants to admit it.

Saddly they were trying to give her a gameplay updaye, until they felt like it was more suitable on another champion. Still no update on if Karma will get another update.

Purple AngelJun 16, 20195 votes

I asked for karma buffs.

I didnt ask for morgana nerfs but they nerfed her into the ground because fuck riot

my only alternative now against stupidfuck electrocute assassins is karma.

fuck off, leave my champions alone.

SuicidePlankJun 16, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Purple Angel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kJgv0YmU,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-16T18:06:10.881+0000)

I asked for karma buffs.

I didnt ask for morgana nerfs but they nerfed her into the ground because fuck riot

my only alternative now against stupidfuck electrocute assassins is karma.

fuck off, leave my champions alone.

No, you can have your alternative for Assassins, but we have to deal with this BS Top now. It just isn't fun.

Oh and also, a pro tipp from me, Assassins HATE AP Cho'Gath Mid, who maxes his Silence first. Try it out. :)

Purple AngelJun 16, 20191 votes

i personally love that top is in chaos

I'm tired of people abusing renekton or aatrox or riven or darius or illaoi

I'm glad their world has gone to chaos. Now I can j4 top again.

SuicidePlankJun 16, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Purple Angel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kJgv0YmU,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-06-16T19:37:56.296+0000)

i personally love that top is in chaos

I'm tired of people abusing renekton or aatrox or riven or darius or illaoi

I'm glad their world has gone to chaos. Now I can j4 top again.

Cool? It has always been a shithole, but since S8 even more. Almost every Top Main I know hates it.

ApocalypsicJun 16, 20193 votes

How is playing bruiser roster toplaners “abusing” them? Playing them in their intended roles with intended plays types is baddd?

Jerry SeinfeIdJun 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Luminiferous Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kJgv0YmU,comment-id=0002000000000001,timestamp=2019-06-16T19:49:18.420+0000)

How is playing bruiser roster toplaners “abusing” them? Playing them in their intended roles with intended plays types is baddd?

How is playing ranged toplaners abusing ? Playing in their intended roles with intended playstyle is bad?

ApocalypsicJun 16, 20195 votes

Klepto ranged top with gauntlet isn’t intended. It’s just what certain champs do to easily abuse melee matchups in a setting most optimal where they cannot be easily punished.

It’ll get nerfed, just like Viktor top, it’s not healthy for the game and just blanket supresses an entire class of champs.

Jerry SeinfeIdJun 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Luminiferous Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kJgv0YmU,comment-id=000200000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-06-16T20:17:31.100+0000)

Klepto ranged top with gauntlet isn’t intended. It’s just what certain champs do to easily abuse melee matchups in a setting most optimal where they cannot be easily punished.

It’ll get nerfed, just like Viktor top, it’s not healthy for the game and just blanket supresses an entire class of champs.

if Gnar was a decent champion again you know these same threads would pop up about him. This shit happens to other champions who mainly go top and are ranged. If "toplane is their lane" goes for melee's why doesn't it go for them?

ApocalypsicJun 16, 20195 votes

That’s why they don’t keep Gnar decent. The exact reason why, he completely invalidates an entire class of champions when he becomes the optimal pick.

It’s a very awkward situation, Riot shoved bruiser bot lanes back out of the game pretty fast after they had barely picked up steam so they’ve got no where else to go feasibly other than top (their historically chosen lane,) niche picks as mid laners (usually to counter pick certain matchups,) and sometimes jungle if they can compete with the jungle roster in any given meta.

Just think of it this way, if Karma or Kennen got chased out of top lane they’d still have places to go. If Darius or Illaoi (for example) get chased out of top, then they’re just out of the game, as a most extreme example.

Jerry SeinfeIdJun 17, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Luminiferous Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kJgv0YmU,comment-id=00020000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-16T23:45:30.871+0000)

That’s why they don’t keep Gnar decent. The exact reason why, he completely invalidates an entire class of champions when he becomes the optimal pick.

It’s a very awkward situation, Riot shoved bruiser bot lanes back out of the game pretty fast after they had barely picked up steam so they’ve got no where else to go feasibly other than top (their historically chosen lane,) niche picks as mid laners (usually to counter pick certain matchups,) and sometimes jungle if they can compete with the jungle roster in any given meta.

Just think of it this way, if Karma or Kennen got chased out of top lane they’d still have places to go. If Darius or Illaoi (for example) get chased out of top, then they’re just out of the game, as a most extreme example.

ok so in this ideal world where toplane is melee only where do the likes of Gnar Teemo go? cuz afaik they got no decent other place to go. I play teemo bot but i'm silver, that shit don't work in high elo.

ApocalypsicJun 17, 20192 votes

I already answered this. Teemo and Gnar are kept in bad states intentionally. They're designed to go top, but then Riot realized that it's an incredibly unhealthy playstyle to be against. Although in teemo's case... he's kind of just an old meme.

Purple AngelJun 16, 20191 votes

no champs should have a dash and lack of resource bar in the same kit... let alone multiple/

HP CrookshanksJun 16, 20195 votes

She was weak

MakattackJun 17, 20193 votes

She actually was very weak in support and mid. However, I don't think this was the way to buff her.

SweedishGunnerJun 17, 20193 votes

Can't make Frozen Gaunlet melee only though as that'd hurt their golden boy Ezreal and we couldn't possibly have that!

wolviusJun 16, 20192 votes

https://vimeo.com/313711798

This was a few months ago, I don't want to see what tank karma is like now. It was easier to kill vlad through his healing than karma.

Hooray more bullshit top, its almost like the lane is the dump of league. I wonder if Riste was legit when he said he would play garen mid in the future.

Edit: everyone but shyvana had void at that point as well.

###Edit 2: part next post### Cho: void 16mins Orianna: void 17mins, Xerath: void 18mins morello 24mins Furry: void 14mins morello 25mins

And morellos on the way item 3001 item 3111 item 3065 item 3102 item 3194 is tough to chew through.

MakattackJun 17, 20192 votes

And none of you built healing reduction, yet you wonder how Karma didn't die.

wolviusJun 17, 20192 votes

{quoted}

And none of you built healing reduction, yet you wonder how Karma didn't die.

That clip was about 22 minutes into the game, ahri had both components and just needed the combine cost next item she completed was morello (xerath was close too), the void was more important when 3/5 enemy team has two MR items. Actually 4/5 if you consider Vladimir item 3083 item 3065 . 40% healing reduction isn't very effective when you can barely kill her in the first place, ignoring the healing her effective TTK was huge.

15.6% missing health on cast and potentially 15.6% 2 secs later is huge, they should shift some of that base 20% missing health into the ratio.

Cho: void 16mins Orianna: void 17mins, Xerath: void 18mins morello 24mins Furry: void 14mins morello 25mins

item 3001 item 3111 item 3065 item 3102 item 3194 is tough to chew through.

https://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/3908616612/237941931?tab=builds&participant=10

MakattackJun 17, 20191 votes

In that clip, Karma got the heal from the relic, redemption, and got off several shields and RWs. She had a visage among other tank items. Why wouldn't she stay alive until you guys finally CC'd her.

MakattackJun 17, 20192 votes

Karma is not S tier in mid, and she certainly isn't in support either. I'd say she's A/B tier at best. Morgana, Pyke, Janna, Sona, Lux, Nami, etc. exist. I don't play top Karma (at least, not seriously), nor do I think it should be in the game in its current state, so I won't speak that.

FSRERJun 17, 20192 votes

There Karma mains were begging for a vgu and a buff on their champions because they thought she was weak. Now, she runs at the speed of Jhin, dealing more damage than him and having a shield. Oh and top cancerous karma is back because making frozen gauntlet melee only would nerf ezreal and Riot does not want one of their biggest skin selling champion not being picked so much.

IllabetheJun 17, 20199 votes

She didn't get a move speed buff...... She just got a DURATION of move speed buff.

Her Move speed when buffed is exactly the same.....

Gauntlet Karma is back because of Mordekaiser.

She does NOT deal more damage than Jhin lmfao.

Jerry SeinfeIdJun 16, 20191 votes

Karma mains prolly, they love bitching bout that champ. I'd give em their Midland karma back if only to never see her bot again.

IxtaliKingJun 17, 20194 votes

Most of us weren't actually asking for buffs. We wanted a GU that would honor who she used to be, and refine her strength/weakness profile. Essentially, making her a more balanced (fair) and interesting champ.

EthreainAmbusherJun 17, 20191 votes

Not trying to be annoying but like, would you rather fight a lux or a karma?

scared azir noises

IllabetheJun 17, 20192 votes

Lux outkits Karma by about 3 times the skill spammage. If you set them lane vs lane, Lux can miss 90% of her skills and STILL own the lane pressure.

Dewott610Jun 17, 20191 votes

same thing happened with lucian when he got his high noon skin, skin = buff no one asked for

JoeMGJun 17, 20191 votes

Didn't realize she got buffed. I was wondering why I kept seeing her mid and why she's doing stupid amounts of damage without taking any. But new skin so makes sense [slayer-jinx-catface]

By the way, anyone else feel like dark star's Q hitbox is bugged?

IllabetheJun 22, 20191 votes

She didn't get a damage buff. She for 10% increase to her Q R slow, and for 1 patch, a 2.5 second shield and move speed on E. The E move speed duration was the reason for the win rate increase.

However, it's mostly because It affects her TEAM, not because of individual reactions.

The Move speed/shield are getting reverted to 1.5 seconds next patch, so mostly she will go back into obsolescence.

wolviusJun 17, 20191 votes

Cho first knock-up was 0:08 in, after a silence (meh its soft CC) and landed three or 4 follow-up ruptures off-cooldown _as well as additional silences _. The ahri landed a charm immediately after first rupture which is also a damage amp followed by damage.....yada yada...another knock-up you get the idea.

Also at 0:20 she healed 900, someone like maokai would require like 5300 hp for that heal (with visage,something like 6800 without) and she received another chunky heal of >800 two seconds later. A mage champ should not be tankier than a tank while maintaining the insane utility of shields, potentially AOE which also grants move-speed, high base damage (well understandable for support role) and 2 - 3.5 second root that also heals.

Why should a Support that built near tank heal herself for greater than tanks are capable off who additionally would've melted against 4 enemies three with void-staff which she nearly shrugged off while still giving such large amounts of utility in the form of shields and movespeed. She is literally out-performing tanks at their jobs, the only thing i've seen that out-drain tanked that karma was an ulted aatrox (rank 3 ult) with yuumi tacked on and that was only until he got cc-chained to death so not half as long as that clip.

Ben SwoIoJun 18, 20191 votes

After seeing the Karma cheese, I really became lost as to who the hell I should be banning now. TahmKench Aatrox Kayn Hecarim Twitch Pyke Mordekaiser Lux Kaisa Karma Darius Tryndamere MasterYi Riven