Azir is going to be a problem very quickly

Tychusfindlay918·Oct 3, 2017·51 votes·4,470 views

http://www.op.gg/champion/azir/statistics/mid

Ridiculous win rate and play rate jump. His play rate literally went up by almost a factor of 4 while his win rate jumped from ~45% to almost 52%.

His damage is insane and the constant soldier upkeep starting at earlier levels makes it really hard to find windows of opportunity to punish him. His range decrease wasn't enough to really turn him into a battle mage. He's in between battle mage and artillery mage, but still outranges much of the league roster while now having way more damage on top.

In any case, I think it might take people a week or so to catch on, but azir is ungodly strong again, and it sucks because he still isn't all that fair to fight against.

61 Comments

TormentulaOct 3, 201713 votes

He's very overtuned for sure

Sadly riot completely failed with the rework.. what Azir needed was new abilities to try and put azir in a more stable state, but instead this "mini rework" was just number changes while recoding his ultimate and making his shield, something you really wouldn't expect azir to have in the first place strong. He needed what rek'sai got, not to make him good, but to make his kit more clear on what he's supposed to be and where his windows of strengths and weaknesses lie.

Pretty much this rework was as an effort as just a balance change, except they tried harder to test and make sure the balance changes would be worth putting through,

Won't be long until broken -> nerf - > nerf - > bugfix - > nerf - > buff - > nerf - > worlds comes around - > small buff - > worlds ends - > nerf.

SB ArneemanOct 3, 20175 votes

Shorter range makes him way easier to balance. Once people understand that you can beat him with long range and also some assassins, I don't think he'll be that much of a problem. Maybe he'll need a small nerf, but it's too early to say with huge preseason changes right around the corner.

NineTailedMysticOct 3, 20173 votes

Counterpicks shouldn't be the solution.

SB ArneemanOct 3, 20172 votes

Also, he doesn't win bursty trades, and you can body block his E to make him gankable.

HeartmixOct 3, 20174 votes

Who does azir counter tho? Ori/syndra= Skill matchup. Zed= shits on azir, ahri=shits on azir post 6, veigar= Shits on azir, if azir is in range to q you, he is in range of your stun/q/R. xerath=outranges azir, outpokes azir. Annie=skill matchup (favors azir imho).

I cant really think of a mid laner that has 0 options vs azir.

WheatloafOct 3, 20171 votes

Karthus? But Karthus losing a lane matchup isn't exactly surprising.

DaNinadOct 4, 20171 votes

I would imagine azir can pretty much first blood zed level 3 but past level 6 can't azir just wall zed away from him? Sorry if this sounds dumb i'm really tired rn.

MarshbouyOct 3, 20179 votes

He's super OP. The boards will say that he's still garbage but I was able to have multiple successful games on him in a row and I'm absolutely trash at azir.

IcyPepperOct 3, 201714 votes

The boards will say that he's still garbage

You're on a thread saying the opposite though.

Stop ironically fishing for upvotes and get to the point.

Best princess EUOct 3, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Stop **ironically **fishing for upvotes and get to the point.

i don't see any irony in that bs above

IcyPepperOct 3, 201712 votes

Pretending to be against mob mentality (aka "the boards will disagree with me, but!") without any prompting. That kind of statement is usually reactionary. When it's used preemptively, it comes across as something akin to what a hipster would say.

I don't know how to word it well. I'm tired. I need coffee.

MarshbouyOct 3, 20171 votes

The reason why I made that comment was because only a day or so earlier i made this post https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/vJW7mtq0-all-too-suddenly-im-reminded-why-i-despise-azir-with-a-passion and I got inundated with people screaming "his range is gutted and he is weaker in all matchups now!!!!1!1"

I also commented on this post 2 minutes after it was created, so I was fully expecting to get absolutely shit on. Interestingly enough, he did not.

But maybe it's just a vocal minority who vehemently defend Azir. Knowing the boards and online communities in general, a vocal minority is the most likely answer.

SkorchOct 3, 20179 votes

52% isnt bad at all. If it rises above that then we are getting an issue.

Personally i havent fought too many. But Ill wait another week or so before i start REALLY judging him.

Best princess EUOct 3, 20172 votes

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/azir/kr/diamond

OP took KR plat+ if you take KR diamond+, it's 8% pick rate 50.7% win rate

KaìjuOct 3, 201720 votes

I think OP meant more that he has a 52% winratebon a champion that is supposed to be very hard, so he might be a bit over tuned. His play rate is a bit higher than normal right now, so I think OP means he's in a similar state to when Singed got a new passive. He was better, but he was also overtuned to the point that not just Singed players were winning, everyone playing him was. But I may have interpreted that wrong too so I don't have an opinion.

DunkinNoobsOct 3, 20177 votes

When reworking a champ, it's better to overtune at the start and then tune down rather than undertune and then tune up. It's far, far easier to trim power down without gutting the champ than it is to add power without breaking them. We've all seen what happens when Riot releases a champ weak and then buffs them into being broken, haven't we? Zac Ivern Fiora AurelionSol Kalista Taliyah

FairyfleurOct 3, 20176 votes

Agree with everything except Aurelion. He was hilariously overtuned on release; only problem was that nobody knew how to use him.

He's really mostly ever seen nerfs after release.

MarshbouyOct 3, 20175 votes

He's really mostly ever seen nerfs after release.

can confirm. Just googled it and his earliest buff was in 6.18 he was released in 6.6

Sexy Jack RabbitOct 4, 20171 votes

Ivern was actually quite overtuned on release, people just didn't know how to play him. Due to that they hotfix buffed him and the result was a 56% winrate or something for like 8 patches.

DunkinNoobsOct 3, 20175 votes

This is precisely the reason why they waited until after the worlds patch to push this rework to live. Riot knew he was almost guaranteed to come out overtuned at first and 100% p/b Azir at worlds is lame.

0 HogapuOct 3, 20173 votes

I'd rather see an Azir pick or ban than a Lucian ... but that's my personal preference. A beautiful Azir play is rare, and usually beautiful, and it's been a while since azir has been played in pro play.

SqueyOct 3, 20174 votes

Even if he is changed or balanced around being average verse other mages, he will still be very oppressive to melee champs. Whether that will make him a counter pick mid or become a meta top laner, the champ needs to be balanced around melee opponents too.

Dream HighOct 3, 20173 votes

He's horrible to play against. Fortunately the vast majority who play him are incompetent otherwise you stand no chance in lane or the rest of the game. Yet he's still pulling a 50%+ wr.

Xion The XIVOct 3, 20173 votes

idk what to think of it. Recently had the enemy go Azir and our team went veigar. Azir promptly went 0/9. But then again had one that went 10/9 so it's a meh to me. For it to become a problem.

Recon1212Oct 3, 20173 votes

I've been practicing him, and he feels very good, but he also feels like there are a lot of ways of getting around his damage. Granted he is very hard to 1v1 once he gets Nashor's and gets 3 soldiers up. I personally like his q cooldown, but I feel that is where problems with arise simply due to the fact that it is such a short cooldown and it's very easy for him to keep his soldiers where he wants them.

MangelinaJolieOct 3, 20172 votes

This is the biggest issue with him I feel currently. The idea of counterplay being to avoid his soldiers is negated by that cooldown since they will always be a threat.

ModKnightsKemplarOct 3, 20173 votes

You're probably right, given that people will only improve on him over time.

Having said that, range reduction was probably a good first step towards making him balance-able. Perhaps this time, they can tune down his damage a little bit without completely crippling him.

I'd like to push back on the idea that his high winrate necessarily means the changes were bad. The changes could still be great and just need a little fine-tuning. If they leave him strong for more than a patch, I'll join the chorus, but I'm very supportive of giving it a patch or two to see how the changes look. This is expected in a game that's constantly changing.

SxodaOct 3, 20172 votes

all i have to say is play the hell out of him before everyone finds out and they nerf him to the point where he is useless

like ekko, he used to be fun, not even full tank. then he became famous for tank top and now he isnt fun at all

Rockem SockmOct 3, 20172 votes

The rework means he's no longer countered by non fizz assassin's but by artillery mages.

He has to all in with E and two soldiers up to get his absurd damage. He can put the hurt on any melee now.

His early and mid game got betterl but he is 10x riskier.

I know most Azir mains like it but I hate it. Rip azir.....he's now just a mage Lee sin

Handy Sandy Oct 3, 20172 votes

only reason why his wr isn't 60% is because he's azir lmao

GayFluffyUnicornOct 3, 20171 votes

Actually the boards should explode. Azir mains have gotten like 50% winrate barely the past months and now 61% XD-

BisaknospOct 3, 20172 votes

he already is

KloqdqOct 3, 20172 votes

Azir hasn't felt this good in years. I think the changes made really did work to make him feel better while also keeping him more reasonable. He is pretty OP once people get the hang of him again but he is for sure beatable unlike pre-nerf Azir which was godly. This one is just a damn good champion.

BlåbæretOct 3, 20172 votes

Played against Azir twice so far. He's pure cancer to play against, and bad players seem to do well with him. He needs to be nerfed asap.

RookPusherOct 3, 20172 votes

I'm fine with this?

He's not easy to play well. So I think there ought to be some reward for playing a hard champ well.

Also, we're what, a patch in? Call me in two patches. For one thing, he'll be tuned. Secondly, his counter will rise in popularity.

Also, his skins are pretty sick.

Ariel the CruelOct 3, 20171 votes

I miss my old Bruiser build Azir. A shame Riot never saw the irony gutting it in favor of "problematic Q poke."

Hotaru is WaifuOct 3, 20171 votes

i love playing azir so much im happy he is play able again his poke was reduced the only problem i see is his all in can be a bit much early on but its a better change to have him up to 52% from being at 42% at his lowest

SB ArneemanOct 3, 20171 votes

Remember that pretty much noone remembers how you play against him, though

TyrekGoldenspearOct 3, 20171 votes

Meh. I have found mixed success with new Azir.

Granted, in tense situations I overestimate my range for shuffles and whatnot and get killed often. Not to mention I haven't had too many chances to get the hang of his new nuances.

I bet in a week I will become a monster on this new Azir and see what everyone's talking about.

SalsonOct 3, 20171 votes

My gues is that he will get nerfed to about 47-48% winrate.

I think that was the point actually, to let him have a bad solo-que winrate instead of a terrible one.

Jerry SeinfeIdOct 3, 20171 votes

what? it's not fun to play against 3 unkillable farm bots while azir sits in the back like a little bitch? who woulda guessed. make his soldiers killable, zyra's/heimers are so why shouldn't his be killable.

or atleast do something about them. I dislike playing against heimer too but atleast i can deal with his turrets.

NoblewindOct 3, 20171 votes

I think their intention was to make him easier to balance in general, while normalizing his win rates more accross elos to avoid the "45% win rate in gold = 100% pick/ban in master+" issue.

Probably is overturned at the moment but it's too early to say whether his issues have improved or not

SpecterVonBarenOct 3, 20171 votes

And if they decrease his range more then people will start questioning what the point of his soldiers is when he can auto attack farther. Truly keeping the Shuffle was worth it...

Elkington VIOct 3, 20171 votes

Gods, I hope not. I hate when Azir is strong. He counters every champion I play.

Moral PinnacleOct 4, 20171 votes

Overtuned? I've played vs him twice, gank him at level 2, problem solved. he cant play from behind for shit. Another case of bad players being afraid to go hard on a weak champ. His reposition window is SO long. Go in early, keep him behind.

LexLutheran87Oct 4, 20171 votes

I haven't seen the sand chicken yet, but some of it could also be people don't know how to play against it, as it was a very rare matchup.

It may be like jungle ezreal, super powerful at Discovery, but has declined as people have gotten used to his patterns and capabilities.

I hope they give it some time and save the knee jerk.

ArchMageM4gnusOct 4, 20171 votes

I stopped playing Azir after the rework since I don't like what they did with him. I dont care about doing mass amounts damage, I prefer to sit back and poke and play passive. I dont need the kills in a teamfight, just as long as I get my damage in.

However since playing against the new Azir, I haven't lost a single game against one mid. Just counter him with range. If they go Azir, pick Xerath, Ziggs, Veig, or Syndra. It's honestly the easiest match as long as your competent. He basically needs to be within ADC range to get you with a solider, which is within range for Syndra stun + R combo. He's basically easily killed at level 6 and can be poked before that.

Ziggs and Xerath is self explanatory - just out range him, play safe, poke him down and push him to tower. Let him spam soldiers since his soldier have a harder time killing multiple minions with the % nerf. With Veiger same thing.....play passive until level 6.....E him he can't get out and then burst him down.

SomeOneButNoOneOct 4, 20171 votes

You need to take the fact that there's been a crapload of Azir mains/players who were basicly forced into quitting playing him, and then just came back to spamm the crapton of games. He's undeniably strong, but I think the only thing that puts him into insanely good category is the shield on his E. But on the other hand, if you pick champions that outrange him, or punish him for just getting into their range (Taliyah, Anivia, Xerath, Ziggs, LeBlanc, Orianna, Brand, Vel'Koz, Syndra, Viktor, Annie) you realize that you can shut him down quite heavily in laning phase, due to him lacking burst damage. Azir's entire kit is sustained DPS until he gets items, and that dps is quite shitty until he does have those items. You just need to pick things that punish him for getting into range, or even worse yet, who literaly 100-0 him the moment he gets into range. And you need to close out the game asap. Since he WILL outscale. He will DEFINATELY outscale pretty much ANYTHING in league right now, and when he does it's not fun for the opponents.